Getting a D in Calc BC for Princeton

Applying to College
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Homework, quizzes and participation in a sophisticated college math class do show actual results in maturity of mathematical thinking, development of proof-based analysis and similar evidence. Many college STEM courses are curved when the test is written so that the actual top grade may be a 50%. High school courses generally are quite different.

In any event, the student will have to explain the grade she now has-that can be done in a productive way with the high school’s help in characterizing it as as an anamoly not reflecting her ability or work ethic.

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I’m the one who suggested perhaps another easy app and noted Arizona has a top 10 - 15 physics program. It’s a simple app and quick response.

I was vilified but why ?

You have homeowners insurance - in case you get robbed.

Another school - and the NACAC list is out - in case you get robbed. I attached for mom. Just in case she wants to peruse.

It’s always good to be prepared with insurance - just in case. And that’s what this would be b4 it is too late.

A kid who is panicked will say it’s this or bust. But in reality cooler heads will prevail and if she’s out of time to find another it will have been a mistake.

Hopefully reviewed means take again at Princeton or this summer but still best to be prepared in case the worst outcome does happen.

https://www.nacacnet.org/college-openings-update/

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Has your S spoken to the teacher?

I hope all works out.

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To be clear, you weren’t vilified.

Posters pointed out that just perhaps your posts were contributing to the catastrophizing that the OP was already feeling, i.e. write off Princeton and start looking at a bunch of random colleges which wouldn’t mind a D on the transcript.

If that’s vilifying, we certainly have a different definition of the word. And we all have homeowners insurance because other than common sense (lock your door, don’t tell everyone you know you are leaving for Tahiti for three weeks and that the spare key is under the door mat) it is somewhat random whether or not you will be robbed. But helping the D bring up that Calc grade (something that many of the parents on here have done) isn’t random. And if all that’s needed is scoring a B on the next test, pushing the panic button is likely to contribute to the “OMG, the sky is falling” vs. knuckling down and figuring out how to get the right answers on the next quiz…

You weren’t vilified. Not even close!

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I also noted to get tutoring and to get help. I didn’t say throw in the towel. I never said to write Princeton off. In fact very early I said to call and discuss and I’m glad mom did.

Moving on. I hope the outcome works well. My guess is it will - review is better than auto retract.

I can’t help think given the students history that either the teacher is really bad or was there possibly an unknown head injury / concussion?

Given the student’s qualifications something seems off…

The teacher is the same as first semester, correct ?

Has she been to a dr, just in case ?

Edit - if planning for all scenarios is catastrophizing, then yep, I’m guilty as charged !!

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I think this is what should be taken away from all of this. You can create a strong argument Princeton is the top university in the world for Mathematics. As a parent, do you want your child to major in Physics in an institution like this if Calc BC in high school is a significant struggle?

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What has been the feedback from the HS teacher? Why is she struggling? Are there other kids in the class that are having similar issues?

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She won’t major in physics if she has a problem with math in college-at any college. There are plenty of other majors.

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teacher does know and insists there is nothing they can do. there is no homework or participation grade.

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I’d try to get the teacher and GC on the record, if they aren’t already, with a plan for how your daughter should meet this challenge and improve on the final test. Specific actions. Then make sure to do those things (see below for why).

I do know a few kids who for some reason hit a wall in the latter half of either HS or college calc sequence. They were good at math, it just took awhile for things to click. Once they got it there weren’t additional issues. They had no similar issues with linear algebra, discrete math, real analysis, etc. It was something about calc.

So, make sure your daughter is aware that this does happen and there’s nothing wrong with her. (Although I agree with the suggestions to make sure there isn’t an issue with the teacher or class that’s causing a problem).

I agree with all the advice about better tutoring, online resources like khan academy, trying to pull the grade up.

However, Princeton isn’t looking to rescind admitted students. And certainly not over a speed bump like one semester of math. They care more about the reasons and responses. Namely, that she wasn’t slacking and that she’s taking steps to try to learn the material.

So I think I’d be ready with a simple explanation of the issue and how your daughter responded. The explanation you gave in the first post is good: she had problems grasping some of the subject matter, she went to office hours, did what the teacher suggested, got a tutor, did all the homework, etc.

The teacher and GC should be in position to corroborate some of this if it becomes necessary. The teacher can note that your daughter was diligent about taking steps to get through this, including doing everything the teacher suggested. If the teacher isn’t providing a helpful action plan then I think the GC needs to get involved now on why that’s the case, and should help out later in explaining that your daughter tried to get help.

Perhaps none of this will be necessary and I think it’s very, very unlikely that admission is pulled over something like this. But that’d be my plan, and I’d be proactive about initiating the conversation if the final grade ends up as a D.

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I never understood how to dissect a word problem until I took my remedial math course as a grad student. Every teacher who ever explained it seemed to use concepts/language which just made it more obtuse.

My remedial math professor- a god in my eyes-- explained it differently and it clicked immediately. So by the time the class got to calculus I was very confident I would understand him- and I did.

There is nothing wrong with a strong math student (not me- but the OP) needing a different approach for a concept to click. I think if the pressure weren’t so intense- graduation looming, a short semester without lots of quizzes, the fear of Princeton rescinding- the D could push onward and make it work… But I think a radical intervention- as I noted above- an instructor who specializes in remedial math-- can make all the difference. If the tutoring isn’t working, drop the tutor and find someone with a different vocabulary and approach.

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Has she tried the Kahn Academy BC Calc review? Or a different tutor? It does not sound like her tutor is connecting with her at all, or there is another underlying problem. She could spend the weekend reviewing online resources for second semester BC Calc to see if it flips the switch.

If I were in your situation, I would have a one on one meeting with the teacher ASAP to try to get to the bottom of this. I think this is a situation where parental involvement is appropriate and you may gain some insight without your daughter there as to what is going on. I would want to know how this compares to the rest of the class, if the teacher has any thought or explanation why there was such a drop off, reiterate the impact of this on your daughter, assure the teacher that she is putting a lot of effort into this class and it’s not just a case of senioritis, etc. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around why there is such a dramatic drop off in the same class, with the same teacher, etc. it makes me think maybe there is something else going on? This might also give you more information in the event an explanation letter must be written.

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I recall getting totally confused when taking differential equations in grad school. Literally failed (or close to fail) the first test. I was ready to drop the course, quit etc. because I thought I couldn’t do it. Tutoring was not really a thing (or at least I didn’t know about it) so I really had to go back to the beginning and re-learn the material I didn’t get. Ended up doing well (but there was a final to bring up the grade). And went on to much more math-intensive courses during my grad school studies. The fact that she is having a hard time in BC calc does not mean she will not be able to do well at math or physics in college.

One of my kids literally failed a mid-term in a class he was doing OK in. He went to the teacher and went over the mid-term and she said he understood everything and had no idea why he failed. IMHO, he understood everything in a somewhat surficial way, but had a hard time translating that to the complex test problems. We got another math teacher to tutor him and he managed to pass. Part of it was that the tutor forced him to work on complex problems step by step to see where he went wrong (just a calculation error or applying something incorrectly).

Have you asked her if she thinks the tutor is good and is helping?

I also think her concern over getting rescinded and not being able to turn this around is causing anxiety leading her to somewhat panic over this which makes it harder to focus and do well. As a parent, I would really reassure her that Princeton is not likely to rescind over one bad semester grade. And then have her focus on this to the exclusion of her other courses. It is frustrating that she only has one test left, but she can do it. Good luck!

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OP, if you are still checking this thread, no matter why this is happening, don’t give up on your D or get too shaken if indeed she needs to attend another college or take Calc 1 again to make up for this semester. Whatever happened, tomorrow will come. As long as she is still graduating from high school, this grade in this semester in this class will not define her.

I had a chemistry teacher in high school literally pass out in class. He had cancer and didn’t tell anyone he worked with. He died a few weeks later. The school never replaced him. They just stopped teaching the course. We were sitting at our desks with our textbooks and had no one to ask for help for the entire spring semester of that year. The sub we had for the rest of the year didn’t help us at all. He just sat there reading a novel.

Needless to say, I had a fine grade in the high school class but learned very little. When I got to college, it showed! I got through college chemistry classes, but I could tell I was far behind my classmates. I took up through organic chemistry. I had to work really hard and I even got a couple of Cs, but I learned so much. Now I can help high school students with their chemistry homework better than some chemistry teachers can.

Just don’t give up on her and encourage her to not let this setback define her sense of self. She can learn this material if she really wants to soldier on. This shouldn’t be the reason she gives up on the hard sciences. It’s high school. If she struggles in college, then she might want to change to a non-calc heavy major, but it’s not time for that yet.

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Thanks for the support. Luckily this won’t impact graduation, but I just wish she had a c instead of a d. Maybe the first semester will balance it out

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Have you been able to meet with the teacher as a parent? Have you been able to find additional tutors for your daughter ? (Wyzant.com and other online tutoring services have people who can tutor her on a daily basis).

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yes, met with her on Monday. Our regular one is peer tutor at our school(as it was free), and the teacher mentioned my daughter was active in participation and turned in homework that was decent(maybe b level but not d) thus was surprised at her tests(remarked rest of class is doing well). Since we are getting major FA from Princeton, will this grade possibly affect money but not admission?

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No, it won’t affect financial aid. But she really really really needs a different tutor. Please check the online sites to find one she likes and you can afford. Please.

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Princeton’s financial aid awards are not GPA based, so don’t bring that into the equation- not relevant, and for sure, will increase everyone’s stress level.

GET ANOTHER TUTOR. Peer tutors are usually the kids who “get” stuff the first time around, NOT the kids who need a problem broken down five different ways until one of them clicks. Find a tutor who has taught calc to “remedial” math students who uses language which will resonate with your D. You’re losing time here…

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Hello,

I read the thread and let it marinate for a few days before I decided to respond.
I am mainly seeking clarification:
Op states:
should clarify, transcript will show final grade as well as each semester grade

To me it seems like the final grade is an average of the two semesters.
While the overall grade may average out to a C, I would be very concerned about having a D on the transcript as a term 2 grade. As @roycroftmom , stated, D needs to craft her letter stating what happened to cause such a drop off in grade.

My other questions are as follows:
Mom, at what point did you find out your D was running a D in the class? Was it when she received the first exam score or after the second test?
Were there any parent teacher conferences, did you attend the conference. If yes, what did the teacher say to you?

Does you school have regular parent engagement time, where teachers make phone calls or request meetings to express their concern regarding the student’s progress in school? Where was the circling of the wagons when the student received the first D?

@Bluesky432 you wrote: Is the teacher aware how impactful this is?
My question is - Is the student aware of how impactful a D in a core course is? It would be more impactful especially considering that she took all other options off of the table.

From the teachers perspective- the grade is simply a reflection of the work that was done in the class. If the student has had the teacher for the entire year, she knows the objective criteria being used to give her a grade.

If she received a D, it is reflective of the work that she did in the class. I agree with others. Daughter is really going to have to grind it out in order to move the needle. Means she will living and breathing Calc. All the best

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