Getting Accepted does NOT mean that a Merit Scholarship will be forthcoming....

Paying for College
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@palm715 : to be fair, Hawai does have agreements with California through WICHE/WUE.
But UC’s aren’t part of wue, except for UC Merced, plus some CSU’s
http://www.wiche.edu/wiche-region/hi
http://wue.wiche.edu/search_results.jsp?searchType=all

People aren’t completely delusional: these things “make sense” - if you reside in a state, why wouldn’t you be counted as a resident of that state? (The idea that you’re a resident where your parents reside is only logical if you think of residency, not in spatial terms, but in tax terms). And once upon a time it was easy to become a resident in a state for tuition purpose - it still is in some states. But the astounding hike in tuition (not followed by federal loans, hence giving a new markets to private lenders until 2009) meant to offset budget cuts from the State, even more pronounced after 2008, meant that cash-strapped universities became reliant on extra income, ie., the extra fees you can charge OOS students who want to attend your university rather than their own, instate option. So, if you depend on these dollars, you make sure they don’t stop after a year, but rather lock them in for all 4 (or 5) - ergo, impossible to get residency. On the other hand, if you WANT more college graduates in your state, you encourage these students by providing them with residency status (Missouri, Utah), thinking that the thousands you lose over 4 years will be made up in taxes if the students stay there and contribute to the local economy. Colleges’ logic makes sense, too, but only if you’ve been following the system for the past 10-15 years. Most parents started looking, at most, 2 or 3 years ago if they now have a senior.
So, we can’t fault them for not guessing that instate tuition could go from 6K to 18K in 15 years, for instance - or, if they noticed, that financial aid didn’t follow at all. We can’t fault them for not having a financial adviser. For not realizing rules have changed.
However when people - people they know and respect, whom they know have gone through the process recently - bring these issues up to them, it then becomes their responsibility to either listen or not.
What’s wrong with thinking that, while you dearly believe Snowflake will charm her way into a scholarship, it’s a good idea to have a couple backups just in case some dummies in admissions don’t follow through?
The responsibility lies in parents who refuse to hear, but also in guidance counselors who don’t speak about Net Price Calculators. Often guidance counselors aren’t allowed to discuss finances - privacy rules etc - and I wish there were a system where parents could “opt in” if they wished to discuss these issues with counselors. But also, sometimes, guidance counselors have no clue about the very existence of these NPCs. :frowning: And do you remember the first gen kid from Indiana whose scores meant he had automatic free tuition and free rides at several universities, who was advised to attend a community college since he was undecided about his major (and thus lost all opportunity at these scholarships)?
It’s a fine line between encouraging the kid to at least apply rather than thinking “college is too expensive and I can’t go”, and telling them it’ll all sort itself out.
Add to this the fact the magnitude of the costs makes no sense to them and they can’t imagine that when their parents went to college, with a federal loan and a part time job you could cover it all, and you have a perfect mix of cluelessness, wishful thinking, and business practices leading to problems.

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Yes, the college pricing system is a huge problem. But it’s a problem that would fall apart if people didn’t buy into it. So often I hear “you should go to the most prestigious school you can get in to”. I did not prevent my kids from applying to a few reach schools, but we also had many frank discussions about what we could afford and the impact it would have on their futures if they took out too much debt (both plan on grad school, which is often where students rack up those 6-figure debts because they went to a too-expensive undergrad).

I’m also one of those who hears all the time “Your kids are so smart - they should be going to “better” schools”. My kids have made informed choices based on their criteria for schools and overall costs. D is having the most amazing college experience and making all kinds of contacts - all over the world - in her chosen field. Can’t say for sure another school wouldn’t have been “better” - but she wouldn’t trade where she is for anything.

Too often kids apply to only top schools and then one “safety” that’s not really a safety because it’s not really a school they want to attend. So they either end up unhappy at a school they think is “below” them, or they and their families take on back-breaking debt, where if they had just explored more options they would have had better choices.

I would never buy a house without understanding critical factors such as location, size of house, schools, neighborhood, access to things that are important to me, and ultimately what kind of monthly mortgage payment I can afford. We approached college the same way. Just because banks were willing to give us a $500,000 mortgage doesn’t mean we took one - in fact we took one less than half that amount so we could afford things like furniture :)) . We used the same reasoning with colleges.

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“Just because banks were willing to give us a $500,000 mortgage doesn’t mean we took one”

Some of this mentality led to the housing crisis. I think the situation is similar in education today. A student gets accepted and some parents figure that because it is “offered” they should have what they want. Just like in the housing markets reality can set in. Many assumed home values would continue to climb or that their income would keep up so when it was time to refinance their interest only loan their home value would make it easy. Too many students and parents figure that because it’s xxxx university they will be able to afford it when the time comes. For those who don’t plan or aren’t lucky it will affect their finances for decades to come.

We had a similar situation when we purchased our home 13 years ago. The banks told us you can afford a home of $x value and your payments would be $x per month for 30 years. We were amazed. Perhaps in some utopia everything would have worked out but in the real world we knew it was crazy. We found a house about 2/3rds the value of what they said we could have purchased. We weathered a couple of downturns in the economy and have never felt house poor. I don’t plan on feeling education poor either.

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We have heard the phrase “house poor”. I agree with @InigoMontoya that we approached this so as not to make our DC, or ourselves, “college poor”.

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It can be confusing and kids hear conflicting messages. They hear about peers going to school X “full-ride” and they know they are equally good students or even better, so they assume they will receive the same thing. They don’t understand the complexities of FA, the difference between merit aid, need-based aid, and merit with need component. Then there is the confusion between full-ride and full-tuition scholarships.

It becomes even more complex when there are lesser known scholarships than the well-publicized admissions scholarships. Some departments offer significant merit awards. Many of those are not based on standardized test scores, but based on departmental criteria.

Then you throw in stacking vs. not stacking policies. Are scholarships allowed to exceed tuition? Do outside scholarships reduce EFC? It is a web of understanding every school’s unique policy.

I know how much time I have put in educating myself about the different policies. I also know my children would not have been as successful searching for various opportunities on their own compared to my research bc they don’t have the experience I have gained from going through this process multiple times with their older siblings. I have learned a lot with each additional child. Knowing how to look beyond admission’s scholarships takes a lot of time. But it can definitely be worth it. We have a child attending full-ride when others think I am confused and mean full-tuition.

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<<<
I don’t think it’s meant to be mean spirited or holier than thou at all, but your other point is completely correct. This whole system of scam pricing where no one knows what the true cost is until AFTER your kid applies and gets their hopes up/ falls in love is entirely the cause of much of this fantasy thinking.>>>

You may not have liked my comment about the thinking that “everyone gets a trophy,” but there does seem to be that thinking going on.

We’ll see students with such modest stats that they were lucky to get accepted, but they’ll think that they’ll get merit scholarships. They don’t understand that merit scholarships are supposed to be

We’ll see merit-expecting students with NICE stats (but not TOP stats) insisting on attending better schools that give merit, but their stats are “average” for their app list. Yet, they expect that they will get a LOT merit because they do have NICE stats (that would get them merit elsewhere, but often at schools that they turn down their noses.)

I do agree that everyone is part of the problem…there are messages that say, “do great in school and you’ll get scholarships.” There are messages that say, “these schools give a lot of merit scholarships (or need based aid).” There are messages that “fit is most important, so don’t worry about money, you’ll find a way.” And, there are crazy messages that, “billions of dollars in scholarships go unclaimed each year.”

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I agree. A certain set of stats may get you merit aid at UMass Amherst but not at Boston University. A higher set of stats may get you merit aid at Boston University but not at Duke University etc.

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I agree w/ @guidedbywire that a lot of schools seem to give, say. a $10,000 award to just about everyone – kind of an automatic tuition deduction that makes parents think their kid has won a major perk. So I have certainly heard about a LOT of kids who get a merit award to mid-level LACs, even though they are not high-stats (far from it). Of course, $10K off of a 60-70K a year school doesn’t mean much, but I do think there are these type of merit awards going to far more than just very high stat kids.

My kid is fairly high stats but not high enough to get those big major awards at top universities. Her top choices (thankfully) are state public schools, but our state publics (CA) are very competitive! And not super-cheap (cheaper than privates but pricier than a lot of other state school). But she’s a match/safety for the mid-level state schools, and has been invited to apply for honors/merit scholarships for some. We can make a state school work. She applied to a few privates, but we’re counting on state schools. We have saved since she was born, It won’t cover state schools but we’ll manage.

I’m sure many people practice magical thinking when it comes to college tuition. But you can’t deny that the inflated college tuition in this country is NUTS. It’s gone up FAR more than the cost of inflation and it really shameful.

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The other thing that breaks my heart is when people miss the deadlines for automatic merit aid.

Thanks to CC we reversed our loose strategy of focusing on “reach” schools and did the automatic merit aid apps first. Then we got started on the match and reach.

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We recently received an award letter from a private school that gave D a full tuition award. The school laid out the amount of the full tuition award, then laid out the direct costs (tuition, fees, room and board), then laid out and added in estimated indirect costs (books and expenses) for a total first year COA (= very high).

The next section highlighted the net direct costs (taking off the full tuition award), of course making the COA much more attractive. But, the school had also backed out the indirect costs (books and expenses) for this highlighted section. It caught my eye because the number came in under $20K a year, and my spreadsheet had the net COA higher, because we had estimated indirect costs added in.

Colleges are businesses, colleges are businesses…and buyer beware.

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^ My DS was offered the same package. We are happy to have this option, but reading the fine print is crucial.

The colleges are part of the problem. For example, my DS was inundated with brochures from a top 20 touting the fantastic financial aid. I’m talking about a brochure or letter almost every 2 weeks for months. The brochures focused mostly on financial aid and affordability. Geat, wonderful school, but it is not affordable for my family (the NPC estimated $60,000+ per year). Many similar schools are not affordable for us. I don’t think students have the sophistication and necessary cynicism to wade through this process without help, and many parents don’t have the time to do this.

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A guidance counselor actually asked my DS why a certain school with guaranteed merit money was in his list given his stats. (DH was ready to go in and complain) DS actually said because he knew his parents could afford it. We let him apply basically wherever he wanted but with the caveat that it will come down to what we can afford and what kind of merit money he gets.

This is a case of the HS wanting to pad their high prestige admission stats with little regard for what the parents can afford. I am sure this happens at many schools.

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@SouthFloridaMom9 Like you, I’m sad when people miss the scholarship deadlines!

Somehow part of my sentence got cut off.
should be: We’ll see students with such modest stats that they were lucky to get accepted, but they’ll think that they’ll get merit scholarships. They don’t understand that merit scholarships are supposed to be a “reward for greatness” so-to-speak…an enticement for a student with high stats for the school to enroll.

It’s kind of like when Vegas gives free hotel rooms to “big gamblers”. The rest of us have to pay for our rooms.

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@1S1Dforcollege #93 Yes. I felt the urge to go in and complain as well.

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I bet if Bernie Sanders is successful in making all state universities free, even if it is limited to your own state, there would still be complaing that tuition is too high because the school they want to go to is in another state or a private school.

In most states there is an option that is under $20k. It may not be the school you want, it may not be the housing you want, it may only offer basket weaving and not under water basket weaving, but it is still an option for a more affordable price. It the government starts regulating college pricing, I’d guess the product is going to become average, like public school did. Those who choose private school will pay a lot. Well endowed schools will offer big need based scholarships. And athletic scholarships.

No different than it is now.

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Another misunderstanding I hear a lot of is over “student loans”. There’s a thread on the parent forum right now where more than one parent has said “I gave my child a budget of X dollars and anything over that, he/she will have to cover with student loans and working”. It seems many parents assume that loans are readily available for whatever amount a 17 year-old is willing to sign for. I guess reading so many stories about graduates with $30K, $40K and more “student loan” debt makes people assume that this is normal, without thinking through that these loans generally require a cosigner (guess who that is?)

I have a pretty typical college-bound 17 year old. As a parent, I’m pretty happy he can cook simple meals without burning down the house and knows how to separate his laundry. Expecting him to understand the long-term consequences of committing to $40K in debt with an interest rate that is only slightly below credit cards is unreasonable, IMO. I really question the ethics of allowing banks to give out these kinds of loans; much worse than subprime mortgages and “payday” loans, if you ask me.

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@carachel2 they were very receptive to what I’ve found out about OOS for UC schools (other than Merced). They know I’ve been eyeball deep in this stuff for a year, and honestly, this time last year, I thought all the same things.

In a weird way, I’ve enjoyed researching merit opportunities. It has opened our eyes to a whole variety of colleges my D would have never considered otherwise. It’s like a high-stakes Easter egg hunt. Fun!

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There was a thread on CC recently where one student was encouraging another to apply to an out of budget school because he had “received $40,000 in scholarships” for similar stats. Looking at the school’s website with the largest scholarship being $17000, the rest would have been in aid or loans. Clearly, the student didn’t realize what he had received, and when kids tell each other these things, it makes them think anything is possible even if their financial situation is totally different.

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@3scoutsmom Most of the people making those comments have no idea what the school offers.

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Even people with kids already enrolled aren’t always fluent in the nature of the FA packages their kids are receiving. One woman that works with my wife has a pair of twins in the same school and paid approximately the same amount for each one their freshman year, but twin A had a large merit scholarship, while twin B had much smaller merit, but a need based grant that made them almost a match. Their Mom never realized that the need based grant was not guaranteed for four years, and after what seemed like a big financial change on paper to those in the FA office, but meant very little in terms of money practically available for college to the family, twin B lost her grant or had it greatly reduced and had to transfer out for her sophomore year because the school was now unaffordable for her to attend. The Mom had no idea that the grant eligibility would be re-evaluated every year and thought it was like twin A’s merit award where the kid simply had to keep her grades up. Needless to say it created an incredibly stressful situation for the entire family.