I work part time as a private college consultant. The first thing I do when I talk with a new client is refer them to a friend of mine who works in financial aid. Before I work with anyone, I need them to understand what they can afford (or not afford) and how financial aid works at most schools. They are always grateful, even if it hurts to hear the truth.
The other thing I tell my California clients is, everyone wants to go to school here, so there isn’t much money to be found here.
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For example, my DS was inundated with brochures from a top 20 touting the fantastic financial aid. I’m talking about a brochure or letter almost every 2 weeks for months. The brochures focused mostly on financial aid and affordability.
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There was a student who posted a couple of years ago who, with his family, had attended a talk by (I think) Harvey Mudd where their excellent FA was mentioned a few times, as well as being included in the handouts. Nowhere were income or asset guides or cutoffs mentioned.
The family was therefore SHOCKED that they got ZERO aid for their $300k income family. Now, we may all giggle at that expectation, but they truly thought that the spirit of “everyone gets aid” meant that they would get aid, too. The family lived a typical high income lifestyle…pricey homes, cars, all sorts of lessons for the 4 kids, etc. They were scratching their heads wondering “how” they could pay all costs.
I think it’s only fair for schools to include 5-10 different scenarios of incomes, assets, number of kids in college, divorced parents (if NCP info is used) with some aid outcomes.
@intparent wrote
Yeah, I hear that. Those numbers are unnervingly fuzzy. I did finally get some clear numbers on financial aid, and they were disheartening.
My husband and I sat down and combined the money numbers (his wheelhouse) with our older daughter’s GPA’s and test scores (my wheelhouse), and plugged them into a few colleges that she likes (Rice, Harvey Mudd, Swarthmore, U of M).
It was devastating. Even with a 730CR 720 M PSAT, a 3.8 unweighted 4.3 weighted gpa, and a ton of really cool computer science stuff she’s done, she was over $50k for all of those schools. That’s almost half of our take-home pay. I’ve been reading CC a lot, and I’d been having this queasy feeling about how affordable selective schools are, and yep, there it was on the NPC’s in black and white.
She has a sister one year behind her with lower stats (=less merit aid, gawd), and the numbers just aren’t affordable. We don’t do debt (only have a mortgage), and we won’t saddle them with debt or pillage our retirement savings, so we’ve had to radically change our thinking as to where she can afford to go.
She’s very bummed, but better to be bummed as a junior and re-frame what you think college is rather than to be dealing with this as a senior and having that golden (excuse me, I mean brass) ring yanked right out of her hand if she got in and had her heart broken when we had to say no.
There’s no doubt those schools are incredible, but not $200k incredible. I simply can’t believe that a college is so good that it’s worth that level of debt for undergrad.
So, now I’m going to start poking around and trying to find the “automatic merit” schools that @SouthFloridaMom9 mentioned, and use her tactic to find some good starting points.
Such a good thread, and such a good time for it. Thanks @mom2collegekids
I wonder if some of the naivete on the part of parents comes from the fact that things were so different in the 80s when I went to college. You got good grades, did well on the SAT, you got into good places, often with scholarships, done. I didn’t do sports, no performing arts of any kind, didn’t lead school clubs, didn’t participate in academic competitions. Hmm, Girl Scouts? Volunteering for church Sunday school? Chores? Working at the local catering hall?
When I first began thinking about college for my oldest child, I looked at her accomplishments and they put mine to shame. Little did I realize that across the nation kids have upped their game and that there are thousands of others who are equally accomplished, if not more. So there is no reason for the elite colleges to give her merit money, or to give it to anybody else for that matter, when demand so vastly exceeds the number of available spots.
I am an educated, professional person, and I had no clue. No clue at all.
@momaedefamilia… I wish there was a “LOVE” button I could have written your post with the exact same thoughts.
@novicemom23kids Thanks! :">
@mamaedefamilia …agreed. I think a lot of us thought we had a unique precious little snowflake but wisely started looking around and realized they are just one in the blizzard of snowflakes!
But also I think a LOT of us kids from the 80’s
I am very thankful for the internet and the ability to learn about all of this. It is beyond helpful!
I don’t think it’s at all surprising that parents (especially those with their first student going through the process) don’t understand how financial aid works, because parents are far removed from the process, and in many cases the “professionals” who are helping with the process don’t know (or care). The price and financing of college has changed drastically since I was able to pay my own way through back in the 70’s, but fortunately I had spent time on CC, which propelled me to do further research. Most people I know didn’t do that.
At my kids’ HS, there is a mandatory meeting of parent and child with the guidance counselor in the spring of junior year. When my D and I went to that meeting with her list of schools, the GC encouraged her to add many expensive reaches to her list, and told her NOT TO WORRY ABOUT THE COST. I almost fell off my chair. He knew absolutely not one iota about our financial situation, and yet he was telling my daughter not to worry about the cost of a bunch of schools that do not give merit aid. Since I knew that she’d be full pay everywhere that she didn’t get merit, I knew to ignore this GC, but I’m sure there were many other families that were seriously misled.
And the schools play right along. They throw out these high percentages of who gets aid when they make their speaking rounds. Makes you believe everyone’s included. Hey the more that apply, the lower it pushes their acceptance rates which is what they want. I love the mailers and “we’ve been looking for a student such as yourself”…rrriiighttt.
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When my D and I went to that meeting with her list of schools, the GC encouraged her to add many expensive reaches to her list, and told her NOT TO WORRY ABOUT THE COST. I almost fell off my chair. He knew absolutely not one iota about our financial situation, and yet he was telling my daughter not to worry about the cost of a bunch of schools that do not give merit aid. Since I knew that she’d be full pay everywhere that she didn’t get merit, I knew to ignore this GC,
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Do parents ever go back and correct/educate these ignorant GCs? Like in this case? or in cases where the family believed the GC and then got little/no aid and schools were unaffordable? If not, why not??
Because some GC in public schools are not allowed to ask about financial situations. Their job is to get the student into college, not pay for it. They think taking student loans is fine.
I did not have much contact with the GC for my kids. I didn’t find her very helpful or bright, just too busy to ever help with any problems my kids experienced.
At my D’s school, they offer a financial aid forum every year. I attended at least 3 years. Every time they emphasize checking the NPC. I am glad that I started going to that meeting when my D1 was still a sophomore (perhaps even in freshmen) in high school. So I am all aware of PSAT and Nation Merit. Then, when she was in junior, I collected info for merit scholarships. For senior year, I got help for FAFSA and CSS profile. I guess not many parents are as lucky as I am that the school provides a lot of information. They even invite the someone from the FA Office of UMich (around 1/4 of the students attend there) to explain the process and details of FA.
A GC does not have to ask about ANY student’s particular financial situation…ever. However, she can REFRAIN from saying “don’t worry about money,” because that can be a very irresponsible statement.
The GC need not ask about a student’s family financial situation to say “be sure to talk to your parents about paying for college, run net price calculators, and look for colleges offering scholarships if need-based financial aid is not enough to make colleges affordable”.
A GC who says “do not worry about cost” probably gets despondent students in April who have several admission offers to colleges that are too expensive and therefore has to go to the local community college next fall (not necessarily a bad option, but a let-down when it becomes the only option after poor application planning without considering cost).
One day or another, whether it be a pin prick or a bubble burst, families across this nation are going to need a reality check of what is actually affordable. So much about the college selection process is based on emotions from new adults that masks the most important fundamentals of picking a college: higher human capital investment==higher job ROI. People can rant how money isn’t everything…college is an investment of human capital period.
Let the people who want Rolls Royce and corvettes buy as they wish. I won’t stop them. The fundamental issue confronting so many families is where to say no…so many people push their families to the edge of financial oblivion to fulfill their kid’s dreams, however rational or irrational it is. An objective tool that focuses on cold hard numbers may save people the emotional trouble of telling junior no to his first choice and explores more completely all the college choices they may overlook.
I am only 19 but I went through the roller coaster…I know what it is like to say no to myself about going with my peers to a state college to instead go to an OOS college that gave great aid. Having a younger brother who is going to college in 3 years made it imperative I picked an affordable school that wouldn’t close doors for him. Being a gap year student made it harder watching my peers enjoy the opportunities I didn’t but in the end I am better with my own choices. I feel I chose well and I do not regret it. After so much soul searching and research, I found the college I ultimately enrolled in was the best choice. It just took a few months of deep breathing and reconciliation with reality.
If I had a tool that dispersed the cloud of prestige and networking for more calculated information by college and degree, I wouldn’t have struggled so hard to pick a college: an average 6-7% ROI on state schools vs. 29%+ ROI for my school (only got to pay books after scholarships 
My point is that college selection should be made easier for the emotional sake for everyone.
Here is a link to another post of me ranting about the fundamentals of college selection and funding. Just food for thought!
It isn’t just guidance counselors. At our first open house for the IB program, the teachers and administrators would talk about the benefits of IB. One in particular glowed about the importance of the extended essay, assuring us that the EE was our ticket to whatever ivy league our child wanted to go to.
I leaned over to my son and said “She’s full of it. No ivy even wants to read your EE. Also, we can’t afford Ivies.”
Meanwhile, most of his class has bought into the idea that they are all going to ivies and think my son is completely insane for only looking at automatic merit aid Florida schools.
Never gave this much thought, so this is just off the top. Maybe they are afraid the GC will write something less flattering in their message to the colleges to which the student applies? Just a guess, @mom2collegekids.
@delilahxc: to be fair, IBD automatically places one as “most rigorous” for highly selective holistic colleges.
Which means there are lots of colleges where he’d get excellent scholarships beside Florida schools - the top Colleges that Change Lives really like IB candidates and that may be a nice alternative to Florida schools.
While I can understand “ivies” as a shorthand for “top 25 universities/LACs”, focusing exclusively on those 8 (ie., not as a shorthand for anything but the exact 8) is pure madness, and not just because they offer no merit scholarships (anyone who gets in is merit-scholarship worthy).
Parents don’t understant that “merit-worthy” is variable depending on the college. Mom2CK is right in presenting it as “top 5-10 at the college considered”. So, looking at directionals with excellent honors programs, such as CoC, WKU, or UNC-Wilmington, would yield fruitful results in terms of merit aid for kids who don’t have tippy-top stats.
My son actually does have near tippy top stats. He considered his first SAT (2090) a disappointment but admitted he hadn’t prepped at all and didn’t even know it had ten sections until he got there ((headdesk)) He also has an unweighted 4.0 and some interesting ECs but my college savings aren’t what they should have been, my EFC is way higher than I can pay and he wants to be a teacher so we’d like to avoid debt meaning a need for very significant aid. He is on the bubble PSAT wise and if he makes Finalist other doors could open but any other schools (that I’ve seen) offering significant aid is competitive and I’m reluctant to get his hopes up. But during the long wait for September, I’ll keep looking 
@MotherOfDragons, here’s the link to the automatic scholarships I think you were referring to in #126:
http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/
I did!
My son’s private school college counselor told him not to waste his time on OOS flagships because they rarely award FA to OOS students. Well, he’s right about that, but there’s still a not-insignifcant number that award merit money for high stats. (See that link above.) He, too, kept recommending schools to my son that I knew we could not have afforded. And he knew we were a family on FA because we told him.
In fairness to him, however, once I proved him wrong, he made note of it and was very supportive. But he’s used to dealing with full-pay families and hooked kids who are very different animals than my generic, unhooked (except at my alma mater where he had NO prayer of gaining admission) high-stats male.
This CC is a wonderful guy, and the school is fantastic at walking the kids through the college admissions process, but not where FA is concerned. Even with a special “Financial Aid Night” at the school.
In the end, you need to be proactive about this stuff and start educating your kids early on that college admissions are a very different equation for doughnut hole families. Fortunately for me, my son is good at math! 