Getting Access to Sophomore Classes

Colleges and Universities A-Z Texas A&M University
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<p>I hopeful that someone with experience in the Engineering department can help. My son is a freshman in Engineering and is completing his first semester. He is in Honors and is taking 16 hours with an expected gpa of 3.75 to 4.00. He came in with 26 hours of AP work that he has applied towards his degree plan. He is taking Physics 218 and Math 152 now and expects a minimum of a B in Physics and a solid A in Math. He will technically be a sophomore at the start of the spring semester and will be enrolled in Chem and Math 251. His advisor was working to try and enroll him into MEEN 221 for the spring, but just informed him that "they" will not allow it. After this semester, he will have completed Physics 208/218, Math 151/152 and also ENGR 111. </p>

<p>Does anyone have any tips for how he might try to get this decision reversed? He doesn't want to create an issue with his advisor, but I suggested appealing it. Has anyone else had luck in taking classes earlier than expected? Its really hard for students with solid grades and AP credits to move faster.</p>

<p>Thanks,
BC</p>

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<p>Which Chem course? If it’s CHEM 107 then he can’t take any upper level courses without completing that first.
Also, doesn’t he need to take ENGR 112?</p>

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<p>Yes, its CHEM 107 and yes he will be taking ENGR 112. Neither of these show as prerequisites for the particular MEEN class my S wants to take. The only prerequisites are PHYS 218/208 and Math 151/152 which he will have by the start of the semester.</p>

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<p>Yep, had some issues with scheduling upper level classes as well with our older daughter, senior Mechanical Engineering student. We never found away around having Engr112 actually completed – even contacting other advisors. My younger freshman, engineering daughter is also a “sophomore” so I would be curious what you find out. </p>

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<p>Yeah, I think the problem is MEEN 221’s prerequisite. A student must be enrolled in upper division in an engineering major to enroll in MEEN 221. Plain and simple. I believe there will be no way around this. But after your son is admitted to upper division, he can enroll in the course. </p>

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<p>We encountered the same thing. Until these freshmen are admitted to a specific major they are blocked from some of the classes. Being admitted to a major won’t happen until the end of the spring semester at the earliest. It should happen in time for fall 2015 registration so they can start taking degree specific classes. Some won’t be admitted to their desired major. I’m not sure what happens to those students and what they will do for the sophomore schedule if they are still general engineering.</p>

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<p>If it’s any consolation, it really doesn’t help to advance to upper division courses in one’s freshman year anyway. There are so many courses in the junior year that require concurrently enrolled or prior prereqs, that junior year practically becomes set in stone. So what’s the point of “getting ahead” in freshman year? I suggest that your son simply enroll in another core curriculum class or two, or maybe in ISEN 302, which doesn’t (or didn’t used to) have prereqs beyond Math 152. There’s really no rush; it’s not a race; and there’s no way to finish in 3 years, so why not take it all in stride?</p>

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<p>It is surprising, though, that his advisor tried to enroll him. One would think that the advisor would know what’s acceptable.</p>

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<p>I have never heard of exceptions being made to jump ahead to upper level, but I have heard of exceptions made to continue if the GPA is slightly below the CBK cutoff for particular engineering major.</p>

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<p>I just realized that your son (or you) may not have seen the prerequisite that I was referring to if you were consulting “only” the MEEN curriculum flow chart or the actual Online Class Schedule Search. The requirement to be in upper division engineering is not listed on the flow chart, nor is it listed under the various MEEN 221 sections on the Spring 2015 Online Class Schedule Search! (That prereq used to be listed in the Class Search feature, I think as late as Spring 2014.) But, anyway, that prerequisite – that you must be in an upper division of an engineering major prior to enrollment in MEEN 221 – is still listed in the online 2014-2015 Undergraduate Catalog under course descriptions.</p>

<p>Here’s a copy and paste from your son’s Undergraduate Catalog:</p>

<ol>
<li>Statics and Particle Dynamics. (3-0). Credit 3. Application of the fundamental principles of Newto- nian mechanics to the statics and dynamics of particles; equilibrium of trusses, frames, beams and other rigid bodies. Prerequisites: Admission to upper division in an engineering major; MATH 251 or MATH 253 or registration therein; PHYS 218.</li>
</ol>

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<p>Thanks for all of the feedback. My son contacted his advisor again any discussed a potential option. She is going to present this again, but no guarantees. My son has other course options lined up to replace the MEEN, he was just hopeful to start a few sophomore classes. He’s a very focused and driven student with plans to try and complete a Masters in Mechanical Engineering in 5 years via the Fast Track program.</p>

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<p>whciv01 - if you would, let us know what you find out. My freshman daughter is in the same place -same grades and same “sophomore” classification and I know many others are as well. It would be great if they could get a jump start on the upper-level classes.</p>

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<p>Well, my son’s advisor submitted a second request for the MEEN 221 class. The Engineering department has changed quite a bit this year and they won’t let anyone move on without the first years courses. I actually think they want them to be fully accepted into their majors before letting them take any sophomore classes. They are putting him in an ENDG 105 course that he also needs. Oh well, it was worth a try. </p>

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<p>Yeah I’ve also heard that they now need to make a B or higher in all CBK courses before they can even be considered for the engineering major they want. </p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>This is what I’ve been trying to tell you. The whole college of engineering has changed a lot this year, but this policy of not letting students move on without meeting certain gates (that were very similar in prior years) is not a change.</p>

<p>What has changed is that 2014-2015 freshmen, for the first time, entered the Dwight Look School without being accepted into their majors. It’s true that they must be accepted into their majors prior to enrolling in certain courses.</p>

<p>But in all practicality, students from many prior years have had to deal with similar restrictions – they were enrolled as “lower division” students and had to complete Common Body of Knowledge requirements with certain course grades and GPA’s prior to moving on to “upper division” courses and being fully accepted into their majors. </p>

<p>Most, if not all, prior years’ engineering freshmen had to complete their lower division requirements in no more than 3 full semesters or leave their departments. This year’s freshmen have to be accepted into an engineering major by the end of their 4th semester or leave the college of engineering. Fairly similar.</p>

<p>For decades, tamu’s engineering students have been prohibited from moving on to what are basically “upper division courses” until certain requirements are met. It’s not new.</p>

<p>My son accepted 34 of his AP credits as an incoming freshman and was up against the same sort of restriction. We saw the guidelines that prohibited early advancement and never even considered that he should warrant special treatment. In fact, I made the opposite assumption. I assumed that there were lots of freshman engineering students who had lots of AP credits, great grades, sophomore classification, and the desire to press ahead. And I still think that way. (And I think that some of their parents are here on CC with us! haha) There are a LOT of very focused, very driven engineering students. </p>

<p>My son stayed within the guidelines, picked up an interesting minor, took advantage of some other great opportunities (academic and otherwise), rearranged the standard 4-year-plan where he could, and entered the Fast Track Program when the time came. Your son will be able to do the same.</p>

<p>I guess more power to you for trying to beat the system, but with or without MEEN 221 next semester, your son’s micro-group of like-minded, like-graded peers will all end up with pretty similar 3rd and 4th year schedules and those 3rd and 4th year schedules will be pretty similar to their department’s 4-year degree plan. There will be differences, but the “skeletons” will remain the same. That’s just how the system works. And it does work. The people who work in the school of engineering seem to know a thing or two!</p>

<p>I hope your son has an outstanding second semester to match his first!</p>

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<p>@‌whciv01</p>

<p>@SimpleLIfe has it right. My son is also an engineering freshman, hoping to major in aerospace engineering. He accepted 48 AP credits, so he will be a junior after this semester. He decided not to take another 20 or so AP credits for reasons discussed in another thread. I didn’t come to boast (although we all love to do so for our kids), rather to say that even with this kind of head start, my son still has to work very, very hard. He has called us several times at midnight when he was walking back to the dorm from a study group or a meeting with his ENG 111 team. There are tons of very smart, very motivated engineering students at A&M!</p>

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<p>@Beaudreau, I second that! I marvel at how difficult the program has been for my son at times! Like your son, and like <em>so many</em> others’ kids, my son is a bit of a natural smarty pants. It seems that he will always get the grades and standardized test scores that he wants, but there is no question that he still has to work very, very hard at times! That really wasn’t true until he got into engineering.</p>

<p>He was quite stressed these past 7 days as his senior design project came to a close, along with a small handful of other class projects, all of which took up nearly every ounce of his time over this past week. Just 2 final exams left before he can take a long breather! :)</p>

<p>I fully understand that many people here can say the same thing – “this is a kid who really excels at academics and who is quite naturally inclined to do very well” – and yet, at times, tamu’s engineering program practically takes it all out of him in order to satisfy his own high standards. It is really a wonder to me that it can be that hard sometimes! </p>

<p>I, for one, am glad for it! Until college, it strikes me that a lot of these kids have never been tested this way before. Things have come easy for them. And so, I am impressed that tamu’s engineering program can challenge them to this degree! I think it’s a really good thing that will serve these kids well in the future. When it’s all over, they can be super proud of all they went through to earn their degrees.</p>

<p>And isn’t it great that they’re surrounded by so many peers with much the same drive and many of the same talents? </p>

<p>(For any future aggies out there who might be worried about the kind of workload we’ve described, these are just temporary pressures for a lot of students. My son typically has enough time to play, exercise, hang out, and do his extracurricular stuff, on top of all his school work. The really hard stuff is not 24/7. But it’s still a wonder that both the content of the material at times, and the time constraints at times, can be so extraordinarily difficult as to cause all this stress on all these smart kids! I’m in awe.)</p>

<p>Anyway, happy finals week to all! It will be so nice to have our kiddos back home for the holidays! :)</p>

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<p>@SimpleLife @Beaudreau I hear you guys, but nothing ever comes without asking and at times challenging the status quo. My son was never looking for “special treatment”, but rather wanted to just push the boundaries a bit to find options for himself and other students that are a bit ahead. I’m actually quite proud that my son is eager and willing to push back a little on the ‘business as usual’ mindset. Isn’t this what we really hope for our kids after they graduate. We want them to stand up for their ideas and challenge the system at times. Even though my sons efforts did not pay off this time, it might very well help others in the future. His advisor also now knows he is quite serious about his college studies and his degree plan. She even mentioned that she was a bit impressed with his professionalism and determination. In the end, my son’s goal is not just to major in Mechanical Engineering, but earn his BS and MS in the Fast Track program in less than 5 years. </p>

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<p>@whciv01, yeah, I know what you mean. I do think those are good traits. It’s completely his and your prerogative to challenge those sorts of things. Every student, every family, makes their own way.</p>

<p>I perceived that you felt deserving of special treatment. I may have been wrong. It’s just my perception.</p>

<p>In thinking more about it, perhaps I also bristled a bit because you seemed to ignore good feedback.</p>

<p>You asked if someone “with experience in the Engineering department” could help and if anybody here has had “luck taking classes earlier than expected.” People with experience in the engineering department responded pretty unanimously that they had not had luck with that, and why. I made it clear that you were up against a prerequisite, and that prereqs were pretty much etched in stone.</p>

<p>You pressed on (you get to! I get it) and then came back and reported something “new.” But it wasn’t new; it was what I was saying all along. It seemed as though you hadn’t read a word. </p>

<p>None of us really know the quality of information we’re getting here on CC. Sometimes, it’s a waste of time to type out a question – or a response.</p>

<p>This: “my son’s goal is not just to major in ME, but earn his BS and MS in the Fast Track program in less than 5 years.” Again: My son is in the Fast Track program and had to wait to take MEEN 221 just like everybody else. Your son can still do Fast Track with or without MEEN 221 next semester. It happens. Year after year.</p>

<p>I’m skeptical that your son and you may have helped others in the future by being persistent about this rule. You’re likely not the first to challenge it. The powers that be are experts in educating engineers from the ground up. They made the rule. There’s a good chance it exists for a reason. I don’t know. I feel fussy about the whole thing! Maybe I’ve read too many of the same sorts of comments for too long! This is not my only “child” in the CC system, just my youngest. I have to laugh at myself and my irritability over this stupid little issue! Please forgive me for any undue fussiness!!</p>

<p>I do understand the complications of working through layers of bureaucracy and red tape in such a giant school. Stuff happens and sometimes we have to be vigilant and assertive in order to make our way through the inevitable red tape. And it’s each family’s prerogative to address whatever rules they want to address. So, more power to you. I trust it will all work out for your son.</p>

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<p>@SimpleLife - I agree that none of us really knows the quality of information on CC. We only use this board, along with several other sources, to help inform us of others experiences. </p>

<p>You are right, I did start this post with a question. We had hoped that someone else had crossed this bridge. Not just that they had read the rules, but maybe someone that had challenged the status quo. I fully understand that TAMU has run an Engineering program for many years, but I also know that they have tweaked their rules as they receive feedback. In fact, it was my son’s advisor who recommended that he request to enter the MEEN 221 course next semester. He was interested in moving ahead and she threw out this course as an option. She felt there was a chance based on his current status and grades. Obviously it didn’t work, but it was worth the shot and I still feel this may help others in the future.</p>

<p>I appreciate your feedback and there are no hard feelings here. My son is much like me. He likes to push the boundaries at times and change the norm when it doesn’t make since. As you can probably tell, he is one of those kids that really wants to change the world. </p>

<p>No matter the issues we post here, we all know that TAMU is one of the best universities for our kids. Academics was a big reason my son selected TAMU, but there were many other factors that closed the deal for him. He is very happy to be there and knows he made the right choice.</p>

<p>I wish you and your kids the best of luck at TAMU. Its sounds like they are doing very well and you should be proud. </p>