<p>I agree with your statement here that a lot of students can get into a lot of good colleges with SAT scores in the range indicated. The OP has indicated in the opening post that colleges that generally gladly accept students with such scores are the colleges they are looking at most closely. But mathmom in her reply just above picked up what was concerning to me about the OP’s daughter’s scores. I’m wondering what the overall narrative about the daughter’s high school career will be that will come out in the admission application file. Usually, students who comfortably get into good colleges with SAT scores in that range have good high school grades in all the usual high school courses. On the other hand, usually kids who posted high IQ scores in early childhood are challenging themselves to go well beyond the standard high school curriculum by high school age. (I am aware that many parents have little opportunity to help their children to do that in many communities.) I think mathmom and I are both familiar with the general phenomenon of bright children being turned off by high school lessons that are actually too easy, but it is very expedient to have an overall narrative of what one is doing in high school that presents a consistent picture of seeking and thriving on challenge. Not a lot is said in this thread about the surrounding circumstances, and I’m not asking, but it’s also puzzling to me that a young person with a high IQ wouldn’t get a much higher SAT score on the first attempt–I’ve seen it done.</p>
<p>Right, did you get an email or phone call each time she skipped gym, so you knew about it as it was happening? There is a system to keep parents updated on unexcused absenses?</p>
<p>The F in gym isn’t going to affect her college admissions unless it comes with a less than glowing recommendation.
I bet she can raise the SAT scores a lot and that, coupled with good grades in the academic classes, should be enough to get a good fit for her.</p>
<p>Four years of Phys. Ed. are required here for high school graduation. We hear stories all the time how kids don’t graduate from high school with their class because they ‘flunked’ P.E. their senior year (even if it isn’t used in GPA calculations). They have to make it up in summer school before they get their hs diploma.</p>
<p>My daughter - a very high achieving student at one of the nation’s best high schools - with all of the typical credentials to match and National Merit Finalist, etc…took it upon herself to get a B in PE in 9th grade solely because she didn’t want to be embarrassed in some final skills test. My spouse unfortunately supported her, claiming it was a “girl thing”. Now, I could really care less about the B grade in PE, but the attitude of thinking she was above it all and didn’t have to give an honest effort in PE drove me crazy. I absolutely insisted that she go back to the teacher and ask for a make-up on the skills test - grade be damned - it wasn’t about the grade. She did retake the skills test - and happened then to receive an A in the course (I think the PE teacher as impressed that I didn’t ask for one iota of grade consideration -so unlike the rest of the grubby parents at this incredibly well known school - just an honest effort by my daughter). </p>
<p>I am not sure I won here, though. Unlike my wife and daughter, I was a serious national level athlete in the Division 1 ranks, and they thought I lacked a sensitive understanding of their “princess” view of the world (girls look at these differently is a refrain I hear often) and that this insensitivity was borne from my athletic career - they are not correct - I would have said the same thing if it was band, drama, or anything else - but they are both angry at me to this day over it - I don’t regret for a moment insisting on doing the right thing - in fact - PE should teach if anything the importance of an honest effort even if one does not have athletic prowess - but I am surprised at the level of vitriol I have taken for this stance - even three years hence. To the original poster - I would encourage you to do the right thing, but be prepared for some level of emotion.</p>
<p>tokenadult - with all due respect to you - I have one of those kids of which you are speaking. The high IQ/low achiever who is bored - blah blah blah. If Applemom’s daughter is one of these kids then I truly feel for her. They are very challenging, I know mine was/is.
You should have qualified your statement.
Your post was still off the mark - to even suggest this girls SAT’s were more troubling than her attitude.</p>
<p>Attitude is everything in life - one’s brains will only get you so far. It appears from Applemom’s post that her daughter has/had a bad attitude and a total lack of respect for the class and the teacher and I don’t care if the class is gym, music, calculus or tiddlywinks.</p>
<p>You all should take the fact that it is gym out of the picture and substitute Art, computer Ed or history. I am sure your answers would be different.
It is not the fact that she got an F - it is the lack of respect for the class and attitude.</p>
<p>If you want to talk about her genius IQ and not so genius SAT’s that is a whole 'nother topic and should be done on another thread. I thought applemom was simply trying to show her daughter’s intelligence, which I am not going to dispute. Intelligence and common sense do not necessarily go hand in hand.</p>
<p>JustAMom, I <em>was</em> one of those students–and worked like hell to try to prevent my gifted S from becoming one. (And largely succeeded, thankfully.) </p>
<p>I agree with Tokenadult that SATs like that are troubling for a kid who has the IQ the OP cites. She ought to be able to go in and break 700 in at least one of the three areas with no prep whatsoever, unless her intellectual environment has been very limited. That seems unlikely.</p>
<p>The fact that she didn’t, plus the fact that she clearly has a “bad attitude” when it comes to jumping through stupid hoops–and no, you can’t substitute art or computer ed for gym, because she didn’t choose to skip something else, she chose gym–adds up to a disaffected kid with some lurking issues. It may be undiagnosed LDs that she has been bright enough to compensate for for years. It might be attention issues. But there is something going on.</p>
<p>“I <em>was</em> one of those students–and worked like hell to try to prevent my gifted S from becoming one. (And largely succeeded, thankfully.)”</p>
<p>If you’re too lenient, he might slack. If you’re too involved, he might rebel. How’d you determine the balance to strike?</p>
<p>I don’t disagree with this at all, with the caveat that I’m not 100 percent sure that “attitude” rather than other problematic issues are the problem. There is some problem there, irrespective of the grade. It’s good to cultivate an attitude of problem-solving in teenagers. That is also hard in some school environments. </p>
<p>I’ll note for the record that my son’s high school doesn’t treat physical education as a graded course (it also doesn’t have class rank in general, although it does issue grades for academic “solid” courses). I’m glad my son can develop his physique in our town’s travel soccer program, which seems like a much more wholesome way to maintain physical fitness than a high school P.E. class.</p>
<p>This isn’t a story that will help the OP, but the posting reminded me of my own experience with a smart kid who got an F in gym class.</p>
<p>One of my kids earned an F in gym his last semester in 7th grade, for refusing to run a mile. He could have walked the mile and earned a C, or dog-trotted for a B. He didn’t want to run and darn it, they weren’t going to make him do it!</p>
<p>He gave me attitude about the F (Do you really want me to be a dumb jock – gym is dumb – the gym teacher is stupid – it’s not math or science, so what do you care – the jocks are already experimenting with alcohol, etc.) Gym classes are graded and factored into our high school GPA and class rank, and I was concerned that my kid not only had a bad attitude but was being very short sighted. I wanted him to understand that self-respect can be earned by always doing your best, and that life is sometimes about testing your own abilities. I also didn’t like his superior attitude, even though I never would have been labeled a jock myself.</p>
<p>So I did a mean thing. I signed him up for a Junior Football program. He was out of shape from just sitting around reading and playing video games. I left work early to be there for every practice, and sat out in all kinds of weather on a crummy bleacher rooting him on. As he struggled to do laps behind the rest of the kids, he’d say “I hate you” every time he went past me. Eventually, he got healthier, and he started to make some friends on the team. He learned that the jocks weren’t idiots. At the end of the year, the team gave him an award for the kid with most heart – which is still hanging on his wall. And yes, he did choose to sign up for the next year too until he finally outgrew the program. </p>
<p>He never played a high school sport and never earned a F in gym again (probably he was afraid that I’d force him to take up ballet next)! He’s 21 now and really enjoys watching football. We saw a poster advertising signups for the Junior Football program and he told me that it was a really great experience. I don’t think he remembers why I made him do it, or the “I hate yous.”</p>
<p>Consolation - what I meant was for some of the posters who made excuses for her to skip phys ed to subsitutue another class - I think their reaction and defense of the situation would be different.</p>
<p>While her SAT’s may be “troubling” we don’t really know the whole story here - but Tokenadult qualified that with a “<em>more</em> troubling”. I stand by my assertion that this child’s complete disregard for the requirements of a class and fufilling them is more troubling than any test score on a given day.
Actually - what I find troubling is that a child with an IQ in the 99th percentile has a tutor.</p>
<p>I would like to note for the record - in our school district Fitness is required for 4 years and is an actual class. For Credit. Graded. It affects your GPA. You must do more than show up. The teachers actually give tests that required a minute amount of studying. If you blow off the tests and/or fail to change for fitness your grade will suffer. Likewise if you take Art and can’t participate because you left your smock at home. Even Varsity athletes must take fitness, in fact if you are too sick, injured or have some other excuse for not participating in fitness class then you may not participate in your varsity sport on that day. Even if there is a game.</p>
<p>I simply do not understand the attitude that Physical education is not a worthwhile class. If is stinks in your child’s school then make it better - don’t enable your kids to blow it off. </p>
<p>Lastly -
I didn’t - made life difficult at times. When she finally got to college, I just let her go - she has had her ups and downs but done well.</p>
<p>In our state, you cannot graduate from high school (get a high school diploma) without fulfilling the PE requirement. SO in this state anyway, a student who fails PE would have to retake and pass the course to get a diploma.</p>
<p>I was under the impression that most colleges required a final transcript that stated that the student had graduated. In my state, the high school would not issue that with a failed PE course on the transcript that had not been retaken and passed.</p>
<p>By the way…PE is not calculated into the GPA…but it IS required nonetheless.</p>
<p>“EVERYONE knows that all you have to do is show up to get a good grade in gym …”</p>
<p>This is NOT the case at my kid’s school - even in MS they are graded in gym - only 50% is participation, and the rest divided between tests (and research papers!), ability and improvement. They use heart rate monitors to grade participation - you have to be in zone for at least 30 minutes each class. The result of this is that many kids get Bs and lower in PE - including varsity athletes who need to work extra hard to get in zone. Haven’t heard of anyone getting an F but I’m sure it’s happened.</p>
<p>For the record, “mid-range colleges, such as Gettysburg & Lafayette” had middle 50% SAT scores of 1860-2040 and 1860 to 2130 respectively. This put the OPs daughter barely above the 25th percentile of accepted students.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, many of those in the bottom 25th are recruited athletes. Additionally, both Gettysburg and Lafayette boast about their athletic student bodies, with a high percentage of students taking part in varsity, club, intramural or recreational sports. So while I don’t think an “F” in Phys Ed would be fatal by itself, in combination with relatively low SAT scores it could be dicey at Lafayette and Gettysburg.</p>
<p>BTW, US News & World Report ranks both Lafayette and Gettysburg among the Top 50 LACs. I’m not sure that these would be considered “mid-level schools” anywhere outside the CC community.</p>
<p>At my high school, phys ed was graded like any academic class, and it went into your GPA and affected your class standing. If a phys ed F brings a student down a quintile in ranking, as it would at my school, that certainly could make the difference between admit and deny. It’s still worth applying, but it could be pretty serious.</p>
<p>easy - it is not a princess complex. I came from nothing - I mean absolutely nothing - unemployed single mother - the whole bit - not a single dime from anyone but myself since 18 - went to school (a USNWR top 10 school) on an athletic scholarship - then on to second in the class and an editor of the law review at at Top 10 law school. Don’t know how I did it, but I sure as heck was no victim - I had tons and tons of freedom that the spoiled kids never enjoyed - I loved being accountable only to myself - and could go anywhere (I traveled a lot with sports) and do anything so long as I could get my work done. A great rehearsal for adult life - and never had the fear of failure that so many have - I knew what was on the other side and having nothing just wasn’t all that bad. Poverty is just a state of mind. </p>
<p>So what did I do? I spoil my kids - often to please my spouse - in every way. They are great students - may even better than that - and intrinsically good kids - but they don’t need to or are not asked to work at any sort of job, they have new cars, with insurance, etc. everything paid for, have never had to pay for clothes, spring breaks, vacations (on their own) to Europe, and get lots of spending money. They feel and act entitled. So in a sense you must understand that the princess complex is not a complex, but a woeful rendition of a situation I either let happen or encouraged to happen. The key is to be happy - and my happiest days where when I had nothing and valued every little thing I earned - I relate this because there is a price to pay for such indulgence - among them that in the end the kids don’t really respect me, either. Kudos to the original poster for trying to make her kid have the right attitude.</p>