getting closer to a list-maybe

Parents Forum
1

<p>D and I have worked diligently and believe we are finally making some headway in preparing a list. We have three categories , as you might suspect-safety ,reach, and match.</p>

<p>I am a strong proponent of finding a safety you would love to attend and D has had that one nailed for a while with 4 wonderful schools that all bring something interesting to the table in her view, and include two state honors colleges and two LAC's around the 90-100 mark with automatic scholarships. We have found three more to "slot in" if one falls out. So financial and admission selectivity safeties are finished. </p>

<p>For D the reaches were easy ,too. They really haven't changed since early in the process, though neither have her chances to get in to any of them or my ability to pay what I fear will be the EFC. Dartmouth, Princeton, Williams, and Bowdoin remain the choices that she feels certain her real dad would have made available to her if it wasn't for that whole hospital mix-up thing.</p>

<p>Where we are stumbling around is in the match category. 4/5ths of our work has been in deciphering potential merit awards against potential stats in a circuitous dog chasing tail pas de deux-terrifyingly difficult to do in her junior year (but it's also unbearably frightening to wait much longer). So her "matches" in decreasing selectivity rankings are Grinnell , Centre, Rhodes, Lawrence, Knox, Allegheny, Cornell College, and Lake Forest. She has three backups if one of those fall out, or D decides she won't play basketball. (D will find her school first, and if there is a uniform there with her name on it when she gets there-it's all good.) My financial matches are Olin, Cooper Union, Berea, the service academies, and Y-Vonne's School of Beauty and Nail Technology (Evening Program).</p>

<p>Overall, what's our grade? I'm assuming I've flunked, but how did D do? For those further along the continuum, are we at least approaching it the right way? I have crunched numbers, reinvented the wheel a dozen times, and these schools continue to be spit out by whatever mondo bizarro methodologies I use. I feel that has to mean something. (I'm nuts, that's probably what it means , but hey-that's O.K. too. ) And if anyone can give me a feel for the schools, (we've only seen Rhodes, Centre, Bowdoin, and Williams), I'd appreciate it. (With this many still to see, I need to get new tires.)</p>

2

<p>C-Mudge (just in case you were looking for a hip-hop handle. . .) - Without looking at those all-critical stats, it's hard to comment on how the schools fit the categories, other than to note that her reaches are reaches for 99.5% of all students that will be applying. </p>

<p>Matches look very good though and I do see some solid merit aid options. Ranked by selectivity, there are a lot of great schools between Bowdoin and Grinnell, but not many famous for merit aid. </p>

<p>Without knowing much about your D I won't make any comments about individual schools, other than to say they all are solid options. However, I would suggest booting Lake Forest if she's not big on an affluent suburban preppy environment (no value judgement attached) and note that women's hoops (among other things) are a blast at Grinnell. </p>

<p>The only unsolicited comment I would make would be a reminder that if your D would be a strong Div III athlete, some of those mid-size reaches that compete in Div III, like John Hopkins, Washington University, Tufts etc could become matches. Perhaps not the most inspired financial strategy, but could open up a possibility or two. </p>

<p>Mid-term grade: A, but don't start coasting.</p>

3

<p>The list looks good, but there are 16 schools on it, if I'm counting correctly. You probably only need 10 or even less. You will likely be able to cut some out once you know the test scores and junior class rank. I think you guys get an A!</p>

4

<p>I agree with reidm.</p>

<p>I will cogitate and come back with more specific suggestions.</p>

5

<p>Yeah, that whole stat prediction thing does make it tough, doesn't it? I will continue to be conservative in my predictions as it is always easier to move up then down. 4.0uw GPA,4.6w through present. Based on all test scores so far, I have used a 1350-1400 SAT although the predictors would point a little higher (PSAT 67,76,67). ACT should be top 1% based on the PLAN, so let's say 32-34. Barring a meltdown D should be 1 or 2 of 140-ish, presently she's one so let's say 2. 4 year Varsity starter in Basketball (well, 3 so far LOL) , Co-Captain, District Honors as Fresh. and Soph.-hoping for better this season, Section Leader in the marching band and orchestra, every top student award in Math, Science and English at least once, selected and will attend Girl's State this summer, part-time job, accomplished show-jumper (at 3'6") and mediocre dressage rider (on a quarter-horse no less. Yep, we're in Texas. LOL.), Math Tutor, Special Olympics, University Interscholastic League Math Team and Science Team, FCA, every Honors , Dual-Credit , and AP course offered by her very rural school. She's done her part but you know what ? That makes it harder for us , doesn't it? Oh, and I almost forgot. If you'll notice, Rhodes is the only school in a city that made the list. She hates not seeing the sky. (We live on a ranch.)</p>

6

<p>Your D has picked some very highly ranked teams. Here is top per coach polls; Williams & Trinity in CT also honorable-mentioned:</p>

<ol>
<li> University Of Wisconsin - Oshkosh (8) 15-0 200 3 </li>
<li> Messiah College 12-0 183 5 </li>
<li> New York University 10-1 177 4 </li>
<li> Bowdoin College 10-1 176 1 </li>
<li> Capital University 10-1 163 2 </li>
<li> Hardin-Simmons University 10-1 143 8 </li>
<li> Bates College 11-0 142 12 </li>
<li> University Of Scranton 11-1 141 10 </li>
<li> University Of Puget Sound 10-0 139 6
T10. Brandeis University 10-0 116 16
T10. Whitworth College 11-0 116 14 </li>
<li> DePauw University 12-2 113 11 </li>
<li> College Of St. Benedict 8-1 107 13
14T. Washington University 10-2 92 7
14T. Trinity University - Texas 11-2 92 9</li>
<li> University Of Southern Maine 10-2 89 15 </li>
<li> Randolph-Macon College 11-1 81 17 </li>
<li> Albion College 14-1 54 24</li>
<li> Millikin University 10-1 52 23 </li>
<li> King's College 11-1 50 22 </li>
<li> Hope College 12-2 46 21
T22. Baldwin-Wallace College 9-4 21 NR
T22. Johns Hopkins University 9-2 21 25 </li>
<li> DeSales University 9-2 16 20 </li>
<li> Wilmington College 9-3 15 18</li>
</ol>

<p>I think you can shoot higher academically and a little lower basketball-wise. Her grades are excellent and if the scores come out well, schools like Allegheny or Lawrence will probably wind up as safeties with merit aid.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, your D's "reaches" are <em>both</em> athletic & academic reaches. Two D1's, a top-25 D-3 and an honorable mention D3, that are all very selective academically. Can you find any schools that are more of either an athletic or academic match, rather than a double reach? Are Colby, Amherst etc basketball powers? If Bates & Bowdoin are both top 25, Colby may want to catch up to them...? </p>

<p>I would pick Grinnell as a reach/match; maybe add a Vassar or another similar highly regarded LAC (something with a good, but not stellar, basketball team.) Look at the regional rankings to see what teams do not appear on national rank but are middle of the pack regionally (meaning, they care about the sport.)</p>

<p>Schools that have a nice hearty New England feel similar to Williams & Bowdoin might be Hamilton, St. Lawrence (decent regional ranking-- and academically a match/safety for your D), maybe Skidmore... these would seem to be academic matches for your D (though I don't know about basketball strength at the others.) Maybe throw in a women's college too?</p>

<p>I think you are being too humble in your list. Unlike 99% of CC lists, it is bottom heavy if your D's grades and scores hold up.</p>

<p>Thinking of athletics & academics, Try for: </p>

<p>1-2 double reach (for fun; like Bowdoin & Williams)
3 schools that are a reach & a match (sports &/or academic: Grinnell, Colby)
3 schools that are a match & a match (Hamilton, St. Lawrence, etc)
2 safeties (not so important to suss out the sports aspect, because they'd be academic safeties with or without sports.)</p>

<p>As you know I have gone through the same thinking with my D whose stats & sports are similar (though my D's GPA was worse.) She is already in to saftey--a top 50 LAC-- in EA, and I bet your D will do at least as well if not better due to better GPA.</p>

7

<p>....and one more another thing (Jeez.), Reidm, D would end the search today if Grinnell would call and say "You're in and here's your uni".That is if I could swing the shekels. We'd be done.</p>

<p>Oh, gee. SBmom, D is NOT a Dartmouth or Princeton D-1 quality B'Ball player. My genes took care of that. I should have been more clear. She plays because she loves it and is- at 5'11" and 149- usually giving up 2" and 40 lbs every night to high school girls. Those D-1 monsters would ...(shudder),... well she'd go down swingin'-but she'd still go down. LOL. No, she is D-3 all the way. (Although she has received 6 D-1 letters. We assume they were mis-addressed.)</p>

8

<p>I should elaborate-- what I have in mind is a "final" list of the size I mentioned above. At this point, a big list is good, because coach contacts over next year will help you narrow things down. You will see which coaches click with your D and which do not. Like you, the sport was not be-all end-all for my D but she did really want to contnue in college and if so, she'd spend lots of time with the coach. </p>

<p>Also, I would not rule out merit aid at Grinnell, I understand they have it. Will your D apply ED somewhere? A love connection with a school & a coach who will go to bat for your D may mean an ED app.</p>

<p>I think it is marvelous that you & D have so many schools on the list that would be very likely to admit your D and also schools she would be happy to attend. That was my main concern as well-- it is so easy for a kid to pick super-reaches but harder to pick exciting safeties. I think we were a little paranoid about safeties & matches but time will tell; when we get the admission decisions we'll know if D over- or undershot. Just in case my husband & I always talk very excitedly about the safety schools, so she can feel happy & proud to attend them if that is what comes to pass.</p>

<p>I would strongly advise you to make your safeties 2 schools that have rolling admission or non-binding EA because you can eliminate a great deal of time, money, and stress to have a good acceptance in hand early on. (Also, you won't have to apply to 5 or 6 safeties.) If you do this, apply in Sept (or ASAP) to a rolling-adm program. Allegheny offered a 2-week reply under a special program. </p>

<p>Rural, lovely LACs with great academics might also include Kenyon, Denison... Denison was one we checked out. Definite academic match for your D.</p>

<p>BTW we got letters from schools that were out of my D's league, sports-wise. I think some sports powerhouses cast a very wide net, so as to stay powerhouses! Also they love anyone with decent scores that are over the bar for the school's athletic recruits.</p>

<p>Work on some more Grinnell level schools (10th -30th, or so.)</p>

9

<p>Curmudgeon, it's very late so just a quick comment: one of the strikes my D had against Barnard was that it was too hard to see the sky in NYC.</p>

<p>Btw, Mount Holyoke is supposed to have a very fine equestrian program. Of course, it's a you-know-what college. And you-know-where has stables, which implies some kind of program to me, though I can't find the catalog to say for sure. Your D's stats are a good fit, plus they probably would like to get more kids from Texas.</p>

10

<p>Curmudgeon, Good start for both you and your daughter! </p>

<p>Her reaches are consistent in "feel". I agree that SAT's are the missing piece of the puzzle, but if they are in the same range as her other accomplishments, then I would say that her chances are good at Williams and very good at Bowdoin. (I'd give Williams a very good if she's considering ED.) The Ivy League is another set of variables. As far as money goes, Williams as you know doesn't offer merit, but I understand that they are generous with financial aid for those that they accept and your daughter seems to fit their profile.</p>

<p>My immediate impression is that your daughter could rachet up her middle range a bit. Aside from Grinnell, the others seems to be in low-match-safety category. It's great to have safeties, but I think there's too much of a gap academically between her top four and the others (again, except for Grinnell). I would second Hamilton and Kenyon as options with the same general ambience as the reaches. </p>

<p>(PS I know well the abandoned at birth syndrome. I have a sister who is convinced that she is Anastasia.)</p>

11

<p>TheDad, I may have told you before but D's old pediatrician's daughter went to "you know where" and we visited her on campus "way back when". Of course D was a wee little lass and nothing rubbed off (it appears). I think D's competitive riding days are over for a while. OOH! OOH! Can I sell the horse? There's that first year's room and board I was looking for! Oh, sweetie.......(Kid, if you are reading this, I was joking. See...funny haha.)</p>

<p>As to selective women's colleges W hasn't given up and I gave her another arrow in her quiver with Scripps (because our board has been lit up about it recently causing me to check it out) and I believe D has chosen BMC's "Find Yourself" week or whatever it's called over Barnard's Leadership week.(Actually I think it's called "Women of Distinction". Looks like a good week.)</p>

<p>And SBmom, I did I quick roster search on Hardin-Simmons,#6 ,on that poll above and D has played against 3 girls on that team, 2 freshman and a sophomore. They weren't that tough. I've got the schedules and Centre and Sewanee are coming to Southwestern and Hardin-Simmons and Trinity are coming to Mary-Hardin Baylor soon. I'll take D and some teammates down to a game or two and get an idea what top of D-3 looks like.</p>

12

<p>C-Mudge - (Is that pronounced Sea-Mudge or K'Mudge? just kidding!)</p>

<p>Actually, with your D's stats, then except for the lottery-ticket schools, she should have no problems getting in ANYWHERE! And in some ways, that makes it worse, because the list can get so darn huge. My son was in a similar situation, but we were saved by one thing: a strong desire for certain majors. Of course this major evolved over his high school years, from astrophysics to digital media studies to film production, so the list kept changing. And who knows, it'll probably change again after he's in college!</p>

<p>I don't get a sense from your posts that your D has any strong feelings about a major one way or the other, so that makes it harder, but here are the criteria we looked at, in sort-of (but not strict) importance order:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Major - For example, when you're talking digital media or film production, suddenly the list of schools narrows.</p></li>
<li><p>Size of school/diversity of majors - My son did not want to go to any school that was smaller than his high school. He definitely was not looking for a "nuturing-type environment" as much as he's looking for the "expanding-world view." Besides, his major might change yet again, so there should be lots of choices (although a transfer could take care of this as well).</p></li>
<li><p>Merit Aid/Financial Affordability - This was very important to Old Pop here, and I think that he certainly had a sense of how important this was as well. My friend's daughter - with very good stats, but not as good as your D's - got full ride offers to two schools (U of Miami and Vandy), so that spurred us on to look at potential bottom lines. In the end, it helped us determine WHERE to visit, and one of these "financial safeties" turned out to be The One.</p></li>
<li><p>Visits - S had to feel like the school fit him, although the original plan was to apply to some reaches (and lottery tickets) before visiting, then making the trip if and when he was accepted.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>So your D's list is huge, and could possibly grow. You'll go crazy trying to visit all of these schools, so I suggest that you pare these down as much as possible and I strongly suggest that you start researching merit aid. For example - even if she is not interested in the place - check out Southwestern's merit aid on-line calculator.</p>

<p>Of course I'm ignoring the B-Ball as I cannot determine what role that's playing in her criteria. If it's important, then THAT could help narrow the list as well.</p>

13

<p>I've been following this with interest. DD is also a junior. Right now she has 2 definite schools on her "apply to" list, and one maybe. We will be visiting a bunch of other schools between now and June. She is 12/194 in her class with a weighted GPA of 3.7 (no grade inflation at her school...there are only two kids with 4.0 or better). We are also guessing at her SATs but based on the PSAT she should get between 600 and 700 on each subtest. She is not going to be a recruited athlete, but she does play the oboe and wants to continue that in college, but not necessarily as a music major. She wants WARM weather (she's tired of the long New England winters). Her choices so far are...College of Charleston, U of South Carolina (honors program), and Davidson (that's a reach, but she likes it). She wants to look at Emory (also a reach we think), and U of San Diego (a match, we think). We would welcome any suggestions...not U of Richmond, Elon, Wake Forest, or any of the UNC campuses....she didn't really like those when we visited them last year. We are encouraging her to keep her list at six schools.</p>

14

<p>Thumper, I'm sure everyone will come up with the obvious ones, so I'll try to be a little more creative. A good many are safeties with great merit possibilities. Look at Randolph Macon (co-ed), Millsaps, Flagler, University of Tampa, Rhodes, Hendrix, Austin College, Southwestern U.,Trinity U., University of Tulsa, Centenary, Birmingham-Southern, Mary Washington, Presbyterian College, Wofford, Furman, Clemson, Oglethorpe, Agnes Scott (Women's) ....(pant,pant) ...whew! -I'll stop now. Take a look at some of those. And don't forget the Emory at Oxford College way to get the big city. And the Universities of Alabama, Mississippi, and Arkansas Honors (to go along with South Carolina). P.S. I have no idea where an oboe fits at any of these, but they all appear to have some academic promise.</p>

15

<p>digimedia, see-there's that "i" you've been missing, D is one of the lemmings who will enter college as a science pre-med.This is what I have so far-"I like Biology better, but I'm really stinkin' good at Chemistry, it's just Math". Her college search started with the heavy math/science usual suspects and could still end up there but the more we have conversed with Doc's the more it became clear that she wasn't limited to the name math/science schools (and it's a good thing since they are all in cities) or even a science major.</p>

16

<p>Thanks for the list Cur...I forgot two other criteria...DD does not want to be on an urban campus, but she would like to be able to get to a town without needing a car (one reason she liked College of Charleston). And...no women's colleges. Furman has come up a couple of times and so have Mary Washington and Trinity U. Not to be a stinker...but no schools in Mississippi, or Alabama either.</p>

17

<p>Curmudge -the list looks great. I cannot speak for athletics, if she wants to play, that will obviously affect her list, and be a good reason to keep the list quite large at this point. If she decides she doesn't want to play, then finances come to the forefront, and how merit shakes out depends on those ACT/SAT scores.
I can only speak to academics, and DD's experience. The tendency on CC is to underestimate a kid's chances and make the list bottom heavy, as someone said earlier. I'm not saying that that is a bad thing, the parents here see so many kids answering on "What R My CHances?" with wildly unrealistic answers, you don't really know about essays, etc., the tendency is to be quite conservative. If she pulls off a 34 on the ACT and comparable scores on the SAT with 700+ SATIIs, she should be at least 50/50 at Dartmouth, Williams and Bowdoin - probably better odds at Bowdoin, possibly slightly under 50/50 at one of the other two, depending on which needs a Texan (rural will definitely help, she should write some interesting essays, I always remember the beginning of Giant, when Ferber is describing Virginia). ED will help if the finances can bear, particularly Bowdoin and Williams, ?Dartmouth, everyone's ED numbers were down. Princeton, who knows?</p>

<p>If the finances just won't work for the need based aid schools, then I would consider the merit schools as matches. DD was up for a Bellingrath, but realistically, talking with her GC,we were thinking half tuition, maybe 2/3rds.</p>

18

<p>Sorry Curmudge, I'm masquerading as my daughter, she was signed on D)</p>

19

<p>You might want to check out Goucher as well. They make it easy on the recruitment end as their sports info is a supplement to the application, and they are giving $5-6 million in merit money each year, which is a lot for a school that size. Towson is also a very nice area, and downtown Baltimore is not that far. Give it a look-see. I think you all have done a great job in identifying schools. I could not have done better.</p>

20

<p>I agree with cangel and digmedia that you may be underestimating your daughter's chances at more selective schools (unless earning a merit scholarship is a strong requirement in your search). Her credentials are excellent, academically, athletically, and in her other ECs. I agree with cangel that reading CC tends to make one underestimate a student's chances, based on stories of rejection of people with high stats. Based on the experience of my daughter and nephew (also a hs senior), I think many of the schools you listed as matches should be considered safeties for your daughter. I would be glad to tell you more about why I am saying this,if you would like, as I don't think it is appropriate to post my D's (and most especially my nephew's) detailed information here. Good luck to your daughter - she sounds like a very accomplished and hard working young lady!</p>