Getting in on connections

Parents Forum
1

<p>I'm a regular member going anonymous for this question.</p>

<p>I have a family friend who for various reasons claims to have a fair amount of influence in the admissions proceedings of his alma mater, a very prestigious university. (Hint: It's an Ivy, but not one of the top three.) If I decide to apply, he will make a phone call that he claims will greatly increase my chances of acceptance. I know I have the qualifications, academic and otherwise, but this is a school that the vast majority of applicants, myself included, would consider a reach. I like the school, but I already have several reaches on my list, and without the added boost of my "connection" I probably wouldn't apply.</p>

<p>On one hand, I'm thinking why not. No matter how influential he is, his endorsement alone can't be enough to guarantee me acceptance, but if it's the "tip" that gets me in, that's one less thing for me to worry about. Anyway, it's not as if I asked him to pull strings in my favor; he's the one who offered.</p>

<p>On the other hand, this contradicts everything I believe in. I want to believe that the meritocracy is alive and kicking, and I don't want to be the kind of person who gets by on connections. I also don't want to consider the possibility that I might be stealing the spot of a student who deserves (or wants) it more than me. Besides, depending on where else I'm accepted, I may not even attend.</p>

<p>There's also the possibility that he's exaggerating his own importance, but I don't know enough (about him or about the admissions process) to be able to assess that.</p>

<p>I don't know what to think. Any advice would be much appreciated.</p>

2

<p>There is nothing wrong with having an alum put in a good word for you. I would also agree that it is very unlikely that this will make a difference. If you are accepted, it will be because you are qualified and capable.</p>

3

<p>Would you alienate him if you were in fact accepted after his call (whether or not it made a difference) and you chose to attend a different school? If it was the best of the schools (the most selective) to which you were admitted, would you wonder if you belong and undermine your confidence? It sounds like you would prefer to do this on your own effort....good luck.</p>

4

<p>I know someone who went had an offer of help for admissions at a prestigious school. What the person did tell the applicant it my school is your first choice I will push and support your application.
It wasn't so she declined the offer</p>

5

<p>I think the fact that you even see the ethical questions means you're a pretty exceptional person. Most people would just jump at the offer without a second thought. I agree with other posters -- if it is a school you would attend (so that the call isn't for naught), and if you believe you can handle the coursework, then by all means take advantage of the connection. If you would not be at all qualified to attend the school or if you would be in over your head, then you shouldn't.</p>

6

<p>He may very well be overestimating his importance. I'd say use it. I know a few kids who used some extra help in admissions; some ended up being admitted, while others were rejected. If you have a sincere interest in the school, which it seems you do, then give it a shot. I'm assuming he wouldn't offer to do this if he didn't think you were a wonderful student who would add to and take advantage of the school, if it makes you feel better. In the end, though, if you don't feel comfortable with him doing that simply say so.</p>

7

<p>What is the difference between your situation and this? A kid down the street doesn’t meet the requirements for admission at a state university across the river. I walk the application through the process and the person is admitted.</p>

8

<p>My GPA is in the A range and my SAT score in the high 2200s, so going by numbers alone I suppose I'm qualified. As for activities, essays, and recs, I'm not really in a position to judge.</p>

<p>I'd be happy to attend, but it isn't my first choice (but then my first choice is even more selective and I'm not counting on an acceptance there). It's in the gray area of "schools I like" that fills the space between "dream school" and "only if I don't get into X", which is another reason why I'm so confused.</p>

9

<p>My general philosophy on college admissions is that it's a game that is played for keeps, so use every legal and ethical tool and angle that is open to you. </p>

<p>However, you posted:</p>

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<p>That's a pretty strong statement. I would not advise you to go against "everything you believe in." It's perfectly legitimate, and in fact commendable, to hold yourself to a higher ethical standard than others hold themselves to. In the end it's your call.</p>

10

<p>I agree with post #5. Make sure that you will be able to handle the work once enrolled. Also, don't count on his influence. I know someone who thought she had connections at a flagship state school and she was rejected. The rejection really took her by surprise.</p>

11

<p>What if the 'connection' really works against you (i.e. turns off the adcom)?</p>

12

<p>Have you applied ED to your first choice school? If you don't get in -- and are therefore at loose ends -- I would ask him to speak on your behalf.</p>

<p>With your grades and scores, you are clearly a possible admit. Therefore, you are not asking for extraordinary consideration, just a tip. I think it's fine.</p>

13

<p>There is no ethical dilemma. You need letters of recommendation. Why not take one from someone who offers? </p>

<p>An ethics issue arises (as parentofbear points out... I think) if the influential person gains acceptance for an unqualified applicant, for example a person without a bachelor's degree getting admitted to the Harvard MBA program on the recommendation of the president, something like that.</p>

<p>Just make sure you aren't going to drag yourself around campus for 4 years moaning, "I don't really belong here, I only got in because Mr Big made that phone call."</p>

14

<p>A few thoughts:
(1) Is this person actually influential or do they just think they are? There are plenty of alums out there who donate some money and then think that all they have to do is pick up the phone and get someone in. It doesn't work like that for 99.9% of alums.</p>

<p>(2) Consider that your college name will be with you for life. Does that change anything?</p>

<p>(3) Consider that college (esp. the Ivys) can be all about connections once you're in. I personally hated that about college because less qualified candidates would get internships based on a phone call, while high GPA students were stuck going through the normal, competitive recruiting process and be passed over for jobs because their dads didn't have important friends or they didn't happen to befriend the frat brother whose parent was the CEO of a corporation. Does that thought change anything?</p>

<p>(4) How well do you know this person? Have you considered asking them for a letter of rec, rather than a phone call? In a letter, they can discuss how they know you and why you're the perfect candidate for the school. It would be a lot more objective because it would discuss your positive qualities, like every rec. Then, they can follow the rec up with a phone call. A random phone call will be viewed as more of a 'favor' by the adcom than an objective rec.</p>

<p>No one can tell you what to do but if I had one tip it would be this -- don't tell anyone (or tell as few people as possible) about this because you don't want it to come back to you for the next 4 yrs. For example, if you tell people you are taking this help, then in their minds, no matter how qualified you are, you will only have gotten in because of this person. If, on the other hand, you don't take the help but tell people that the offer was on the table, they will forever say that you should have used the help, if you go some place that is ranked lower.</p>

15

<p>And also make sure you don't end up at this school because you 'could.' Don't give it priority just because it's a top school and this person offered assistance -- your priorities should still be the schools that YOU like best -- reaches or not. Make sure it's a place where you'd be happy to spend four years.</p>

16

<p>An alumnus/alumna who contributes financially or with service can indeed have real influence. I have seen it happen many times. It has been my experience, however, that alumni in this category respect that influence and do not recommend unless they believe there is a very good reason to do so.</p>

17

<p>I completely agree with this last post by idad. </p>

<p>And consider the question from the recommender's point of view -- for anything -- colleges, jobs, a position on a Board. (1) An example: I'm an excellent recommender, because I communicate clearly about people, I think, & because I apply my knowledge about the person to the position in question. I have never offered to recommend anybody for anything if I felt the slightest qualms about that person's fitness for that position. Nor do I know anyone else who would do such a thing. (Yes, I know there are shady characters who recommend their pals, but the poster wouldn't be talking about such a case.) (2) No recommender should have expectations binding the candidate, as to outcomes. If a person I recommend is offered a job (I've often recommended for jobs, for example), but the candidate ends up turning down the job for a better offer, I have not the slightest regret or resentment. Why should I? Was this for me, or was this for the candidate? Why should I care? If my recommendation has "strings" to it, it's not good for much, i.m.o. I'm merely thrilled if my rec. succeeded in getting the candidate an interview, for example -- let alone the offer itself.</p>

<p>Separate Points:
(a) The recommender in this case would not be providing the candidate with an illegitimate advantage, i.m.o. Rather, it is more likely that the candidate would be slightly more "fleshed out" by something the reference said -- an angle that an adolescent may or may not have been able to articulate in the app. package, and/or that a h.s. teacher, being in an academic setting, may not have had the opportunity to observe. An alum (I forget if that's who it was) would know the kinds of things the college is looking for, & be able to communicate that accurately.</p>

<p>(b) Contrast the OP's situation with the following real-life recent situation:
Major flagship public U (major reach for in-Staters) outright rejected a candidate a yr. ago. Applicant was a better-than-average student, but no way a stand-out student. (Rather, a BWRK). Caucasian. Graduate from a mid-level parochial with little competition in the sr. class. Took one challenging class (AP). Was on one athletic team.</p>

<p>After rejection, coach discovered student had been rejected. Thought that flagship U must have "overlooked" the student. Coach applied pressure to U to accept student as a recruit. Student accepted, & told to forget Having a Life at said U outside of partic. athletic team, for 4 full yrs. (Personally, to me, that would be a Pyrrhic victory, but apparently not to the student.)</p>

<p>To me, example (b) is far less ethical than the OP's sitch. JMO.</p>

18

<p>Nothing wrong with an alum or anyone associated with a college offering to let a college know that someone is a fine candidate for the school above and beyond his paperwork. If you like the school, go for it. I would not depend on an auto-in. I have seen some powerful recommenders fail to get in kids that would not have been an eyebrow arching admit. It is really a classic story line, how the rec is not going to get you in, but I would think it is worth a try. </p>

<p>The coach story above is not at all unusual, and to me as ethical as long as athletic recruiting goes. How is it any different for a kid who was overlooked during the admissions process than for the other athletes, many of whom really should not be at the school if academic stats were the determiner. There are some sports where the majority of the team is soley there because of athletic prowress, and it is not only nationally known, but applauded every week as they play their televised game to a national audience. And the student can quit the team anytime without getting kicked out of the school; may lose scholarship money if it is athletically based, but if he can't hack the sport but loves the school, that is fine, he can drop the sport. Now if he can't hack the school, but loves the sport, that can be a problem, and I do think the ethics addressing that situation is often shady.<br>
A close family friend was not accepted to an ivy despite a high profile rec. When the recommender found out, he (a prof at the school) went to admissions, and the decision was overturned on the spot. THis is a school that has publicly proclaimed and bragged that these kinds of connections make little difference in admissions. Well, in this case, the little difference was enough. How ethcial, I don't know. Our friend is certainly qualified for the admissions, but so were many of those rejected.</p>

19

<p>This is a very simple quandry. If the college in question would near the top of your wish list, I would take advantage of the assistance offered by your friend. He seems happy to do this for you and made the unsolicited offer.</p>

<p>However if you would be applying only because it is a "prestigious" Ivy which would not otherwise be on your radar screen, well that is a flimsy reason to abandon "everything your believe in". It is easy to have principle in the abstract. The real measure of one's moral compass is when belief is challenged by a real set of circumstances.</p>

20

<p>Re Post #18:</p>

<p>I guess I feel different about publics than I do about privates, because of the accountability & disclosure & public policy aspects. I know such things happen in privates; it doesn't alarm me as much in those cases. And recipients of need-aid at star privates are often indirectly benefiting from the visibility of a sport (that they don't even participate in), because a donor to scholarships may partly tie that donation to interest in the school's athletic success. Thus, there is more the opportunity for indirect kinds of compensation (to others) for "privileged" admission to privates. That is not the situation at public U's, at least not this public U.</p>

<p>And the fact that it is "not unusual" cuts no mustard with me, in terms of ethical categories. Lots of institutions doing it doesn't make it right. Further, because many public U's are less "holistic" in admissions decisions than many privates are, to an extent they are indeed making a statement that a rejected candidate "can't hack the school." In states like CA and TX, also others, there are actual published guidelines for "eligibility" or "qualifications," etc.</p>