<p>In the Swarthmore thread, Interested Dad remarked, "What they don't tell you in the glossy brochures is that the popular courses are 'lotteried' at small liberal arts colleges."</p>
<p>The course catalogs for these schools generally look so incredible.</p>
<p>Does everyone at a college usually get into their desired courses sooner or later? I had picked up an inference from someone else on this board that her child often had difficulties getting into classes at Wesleyan as they closed out way too quickly at registration.</p>
<p>How much of a concern is this at LACs? Does it refer to highly desired electives, or is it a common concern in regard to completing majors?</p>
<p>On the flip side, is the problem equally widespread with upper-level small classes at universities?</p>
<p>yes, popular courses are lotteried at LACs. But they take it into consideration the next semester (that you were lotteried out the previous semester and therefore you would get your choice this semester). For example, my son was lotteried out of the English seminar he wanted at Swarthmore this semester (freshman year). For spring semester he is getting the English seminar he wanted and the other courses he wants.</p>
<p>Getting necessary classes can be a problem at any college, large or small, and most often it applies to popular lower level courses that meet gen ed requirements that everyone must meet. Moreover, it effects freshmen more than others because registration priority is given to seniors, then juniors ... with freshmen going last. It is not a devastating problem but you may find that one or more of those courses you wanted to take freshmen year may have no openings when you go to register.</p>
<p>Hey twin mom, I am also the mother of twins! I have a son and daugher who are currently college sophomores!</p>
<p>My older D attended Wesleyan and graduated with a major in biology. She never had difficulty getting courses in her major or filling her schedule. She was not, however, able to take some of the more popular and well known electives in departments such as film studies and the course dealing with pornography as a cultural construct. She still regrets not being able to take the film class, but overall had a wonderful experience at Wes. In fact, the day we moved her out after graduation she insisted on a "final drive around" the campus while she sobbed. They were four of the best years of her life and she still stays in close contact with her Wes friends.</p>
<p>Our S attends MIT and has never had difficulty getting into the classes he wanted, even the small humanities seminars. However, he does find that sometimes the classes he wants are scheduled opposite each other and he can't take two at the same time! Also, rather amusing, MIT requires 4 quarter term P.E. courses for graduation that they recommend you complete by the end of your sophomore year. The P. E. classes are also lotteried, and as my son enters the second semester of his sophomre year, he has yet to be lotteried into a single P. E. class!</p>
<p>Our younger D transferred this year to BC where she has been able to get into every class she wanted, and even pretty much every section she wanted. Last year at her former college, a selective LAC (whose name I will not mention), she was unable to get the introductory classes in her desired major even though the college catalogue recommended that students interested in this major take the sequence in their freshman year!</p>
<p>I will also tell you that it has been much easier for us this year having both the twins in the same city. And although they are on different campuses only three miles apart, they do not see each other except on occasional social situations. It is nice for them to be able to see each other when they want to, last year they were too far apart and I think they really missed being able to get together. But I don't think they realized, until after they were both away at college, how much they would miss the support of their twin. Now they have the best of both worlds, their own lives but the proximity to be with their twin when they feel the need to reconnect with their special relationship.</p>
<p>I think kids at LACs do get into the courses they want sooner or later, but there are challenges, which is not necessarily a bad thing. At my daughter's LAC, classes are not lotteried, but registration is done according to a rotating lottery system based on last name. For next semester, my daughter's alphabetic group was dead last in the lottery system, and freshmen register last anyway. Knowing that she was so low on the food chain, she logged onto her computer to register with a list of roughly 30 class/section possibilities (she registers for 4 courses). Then she had a problem with her pin number (operator, not college, error). At any rate, by the time she actually registered, every single class on her long list was closed, and she was only able to get herself on the wait list for a handful. I can't say we were not annoyed. This was not what we expected for our $40,000! But she spoke with her academic advisor, who helped her develop a plan of action. She is in the process of contacting/lobbying individual professors whose classes she wants. She still doesn't have a complete roster of classes, but she's now enrolled in 2 of her 4 first choices. Also, if she needs intervention, her excellent academic advisor will help out. So I think at an LAC, these problems do arise, but the difference is that students are not simply left to twist in the wind. And for my D it's been a fine lesson and exercise in self-advocacy.</p>
<p>Each LAC has its own registration and lottery system, so the issues my S encountered may be specific not only to his LAC but also to his personal situation. For my S, there were complicating factors: the registration system happened well before a student had a chance to "shop" a course to see whether it would suit his purpose; if it turned out not to suit, the student had to drop a course before adding a new one (so as not to exceed) but there was no guarantee that he would be allowed into the new one (that happened once to my S, who had to return to his original course which turned out not to be a good fit for him); depending on which registration group a student was assigned, by the time the student was allowed to log in, the course s/he wanted might be filled up (also happened to my S). My S went on a semester abroad, so he needed to fulfill some requirements in his major in his senior year rather than in his junior year. But that year, new rules were introduced to prevent maxing in the major. So he had to take a course that the department insisted he take, but he had already maxed out in his major (in preparation for going abroad). Straightening this out took a good two weeks; eventually, he did take the course but it was renamed on his transcript so that it appeared to be offered in another department. I found the whole experience incredibly aggravating (and my S even more so!) and not in the best interests of my S. Part of the problem was the computerized system which made things more rigid than they need be--a problem that may not apply elsewhere. </p>
<p>In mid-size universities, there is less risk of being lotteried out because there are TAs available. If there are more students than anticipated, more sections are added. However, many courses are small enrolment courses and are advertised as such (eg: the class is limited to 12). Of course, the quality of the TAs vary, especially if they are last minute addition, hired to cope with the excess numbers. I understand, however, that in large universities, the same problem happens as at LACs insofar as students may be shut out of courses they require. LACs will do far more than state universities to accommodate students so that they do not have to take five years to graduate as seems to be a widespread phenomenon at state universities.</p>
<p>I should say that once things were ironed out, my S was happy with his courses except for the one which was not a good fit. In four years, that is not a bad outcome.</p>
<p>I agree that college course registration is a dicey situation regardless of the size or type of school. The reality is that in each place, there are only so many sections with so many student spots for each course. DS got his first "dose" of college registration reality when he registered for his very first semester of classes. He went before any of the orientation sessions took place and still, he left that day without a freshman writing course. Being a music major made some of his registration easy...he got a schedule with all of his music courses already on it with times blacked out. "ALL" he had to do was add a writing course and another liberal arts requirement. BUT they had to fit into the remaining time blocks. He found a liberal arts course quickly (history) and VERY quickly added it (was doing this online in the counselors office). He then spent the better part of THREE HOURS trying to find ANY writing course that was at the right time AND was not already full. After three hours, the counselor said "why don't you continue this search at home now that you know how to do so online". So...home we came...and he continued his search. FINALLY he came up with a match (well...it fit the time and not filled already requirement) with an Americal Slavery in Literature and Writing Course. SO he signed up for it. Here's the punchline...a week before classes began all the class members got a nice letter telling them that their course was being changed to Russian Literature and Writing....the other teacher had resigned. But it fulfilled the writing requirement and didn't fluster DS in the least. BTW...this is at a very large private university with a TON of freshman writing course options. Lucky for us that his required music courses come blacked out each year...no choice as to time, section, or selection. He only gets to pick his electives, and those are few and far between.</p>
<p>I think it 6 of one half dozen of other.
I don't believe that the courses are lotteried at my daughters LAC however schedule conflicts, small dept and course offerings make things self limiting. You often have to forego a class you really want to take, cause you also have to take other classes that are offered at same time.</p>
<p>at my school, you schedule by credits... so one day people with 105+ credits will schedule, the next day with people 90+ credits will schedule, etc.. and within those days it is broken down alphabetically, and that alphabetic list changes every semester so youre not always dead last or first.. the problem with some of these courses is that, since lac's are smaller, not as many sections are offered, and that means they can fill up easily, or the times can interfere. i've personally never had any problems with either one of these, until this semester when I was scheduling for my final one! I had one class that i had to take in the evening and all of the "day time" student spots were full. So i went to the registrars office (we schedule online from anywhere) and explained to them that it wasn't letting me in, and that i needed it to graduate, and they signed me into the class. but like mentioned above, sometimes you have to forego taking a course because of the times it's offered.. but it's really not that big of a deal, as they will always find a way for you to get the classes that you need.</p>
<p>At Smith, D has been able to get into every class that she wanted, though I understand that not everyone who wanted certain sections of First Year Seminar with popular instructors was as fortunate. She has had to tap dance to make a schedule work with a fourth class she wanted after filling the first three slots but I think you run into that anywhere...don't you? Also--and there may be some wisdom to this--she has fixed on a strategy of taking only classes taught by highly recommended instructors. I don't know...I'd find it hard to pass up a class I really wanted just because it wasn't being offered with Professor X or Professor Y. Now, avoiding Professor Z I can understand. Variations on a theme, I guess.</p>
<p>Have a son who is 1st year at Virginia....his AP credits have given him advanced standing which really helps...he did comment that some of his buddies were having trouble...on the other hand a personal plea to the prof will usually do the trick.</p>
<p>well, i know at my school even if a course is full, if you go to the prof and talk to them, most of the time they will let you in (as long are there isn't a prereq problem)</p>
<p>Even at Stony Brook, where it is broken down by credits and what not, if you go to the professor and ask, they will generally let you in. That is how I got in to courses reserved for juniors or with other pre-reqs (Sociology of Human Reproduction, my favorite course)</p>
<p>I too am concerned about this problem at LACs, but I think it affects students at every school...probably more so at the more mid-sized Ivys.</p>
<p>Getting into courses that have pre-req or are reserved for certain groups of students is different from getting into courses that have caps on enrolments. In my S's case, the prof wanted to cap at a certain number. He let in a few more, but there were 8 more students who wanted in. Unfortunately, my S was among the 8. There was no way the prof was going to let them all in, so he did not admit any of them. I can understand the rationale both for the prof and for the students already in the class. But if you are trying to get into the class because you need to fulfill the distribution requirement, it's the second semester of your senior year and the alternative is a much harder course not in your area of interest or strength, it's not much fun.</p>
<p>Enrollment caps are a fact of life at most colleges and universities in my experience. During my undergrad days, it was important to get your enrollment card early to avoid the dreaded close-outs. And it was important to plan your schedule at least a year in advance to make sure all prereq's were completed.</p>
<p>At RPI, my son told us that on-line course registration is scheduled by class standing so that seniors get first choice and frosh last choice of classes. He did get closed out of the second Psych course because of the 25 seat enrollment cap. He's taking Phil of Thinking instead which can be used as an elective in the cogsci part of his major but will try to see if there is an available seat in the preferred Psych course at the end of this semester and the beginning of spring semester.</p>
<p>Looking at several LAC catalogues particular challenges seem to be:1) a limited number of possible elective options,2) courses offered alternate years, and 3) courses being dropped due to faculty sabbaticals in small department where the visiting prof may not be able to capably fill in. I know that the LAC's my son had applied to typically had 3 or 4 tenured faculty in the math and compsci departments which he was interested in.</p>
<p>One suggestion: Many colleges and universities now have their course schedule/registration online. At many schools, I have found it is possible to look at this information even if you are not a current student. You can find out the average class size in various majors, enrollment caps, and how many classes are offered each semester in a particular area. More important, by looking at several semesters you can get an idea of which and how many classes close quickly and which classes tend to admit "extra" students. I have found that at many schools, most classes do not even come close to filling up - I suspect these would be "non-lottery" schools. At other schools, it is evident that certain subject areas close up quickly and that it would be difficult as a freshman to get into some classes.</p>
<p>Closed classes occur at large universities as well. In fact, I often had to beg, borrow or steal to get into the classes I wanted in the three universities I attended (one was private, two were public).</p>
<p>I also remember manipulating my way into classes as an undergrad. I used to work at registration in the gym where you had to go from booth to booth to get a card for each class ...</p>