<p>Classes being oversubscribed isn't really a function of the size of the school, but rather classes that have capped class sizes. It doesn't really matter if the class is capped at 12 in an LAC or capped at 48 in a university. Same dynamics apply.</p>
<p>The problem probably seems worse today than it was years ago because schools have changed the way they teach entry level courses. Used to be that you would offer English 101 or Poli Sci 101 and teach as many sections as required. Now, English 101 is broken up into 8 different courses. Each course reads a Greek play, a Shakespeare, some poetry, etc. But, one will be called "The Role of Gender in Western Lit" and the next will be "Fantasy and Mythology in Western Lit". Typically, a few of the "flavors" will be lotteried and you may have to "settle" for a different "flavor". Not a big deal.</p>
<p>The key is to go the course selection with your four top choices in mind and then have four or five other courses in your hip pocket. Most everybody has some electives they would like to take sometime -- the larger lecture classes, like Intro to Western Art, or Psych 101, don't fill up.</p>
<p>As far as I'm aware Williams doesn't have a lottery system. Freshmen who are, for the most part, either taking larger intro classes or smaller classes that give preference to freshmen usually get everything they sign up for. Juniors and Seniors who have declared majors and most likely know the professors and department chairs can wheedle their way into classes that might otherwise be closed. This is especially true if they are graduation requirements. Sophomores however tend to get squeezed. </p>
<p>My son had some back and forth with the school at the end of the summer about his Fall classes, which entailed e-mailing various professors. They were very helpful in offering suggestions. The problem was not finding available classes, but finding available classes that weren't in conflicting time slots. There were, however, plenty of choices. In the end he went three courses in areas that hadn't been of particular interest to him and the outcome was -- you guessed it -- they are now his best ever classes! </p>
<p>I certainly remember the booth-to-booth registration system at Michigan back in the Pleistocene era. It was a nightmare I think compounded by the fact that I didn't know any of the professors so didn't feel I could ask for favors. It's much, much easier now with on-line registration.</p>
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<p>As far as I'm aware Williams doesn't have a lottery system</p>
</blockquote>
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<p>It may not. Swarthmore has a lottery because, in typical Quaker fashion, they feel that a "first come first served" system would be unfair. So it's first come/first served as long as the course is below the cap size. However, once the class has more takers than slots, everyone who signed up goes into a lottery for the available slots in that class and (theoretically) has an equal chance to get the class. </p>
<p>Most freshmen get their first taste of the lottery system with freshmen seminars which are limited to 12 students. Although there are dozens and dozens of freshmen seminars given by every department, some are clearly more popular than others. My daughter lost out on the lottery for her first choice freshman seminar first semester, but got her second choice which has ended up being her favorite course (and, as a result) potential major. She also got the Physics seminar, which was not part of the "official" freshmen offering. I think she got her first choice freshman seminar for second semester.</p>
<p>Sometimes the 10:30 class section will fill up and go to lottery, while the 9:30 section of the same course will not fill up. It's really not a big deal as long as you aren't married to exactly four specific courses, but rather have a list of say, eight courses that you would like to take at some point over the next couple of semesters.</p>
<p>There's also a lottery system for all of the housing on campus. Now, THAT is really a production as students plot and scheme to keep a group of friends together. Lots and lots of strategizing. That lottery is basically done the old-fashioned way -- in the gymnasium!</p>
<p>I haven't thought of the "booth to booth" thing in a long time. There were ways of gaming that, weren't there? The scam I stumbled onto was simple yet always successful . As the honors students, cheerleaders, and ballplayers were registering I would stand at the door with my advisement materials in my hand. I would wait until I saw a prof I knew and liked, then I'd yell their name and tell the gatekeeper that I had to have Professor Plumb sign my advisement sheet or discuss my advisement sheet or approve my extra hours or..... and I would simply walk in. Once in , no one knew who was who and registration was a snap. It will be hard to do that on-line from what I gather.</p>
<p>(I'm sure D and her friends will rate that archaic vignette to be about as useful as all of my other college stories and advice. How DID they do it in your time, Dad? Didn't you just float downriver to school in boats made of hide? Weren't Tristan and Isolde seniors when you were a freshman? Wasn't Harvard still a junior college ?)</p>
<p>Curmudgeon - you little devil. Sly folks like you were probably why there were never any classes left when it was MY turn to register. :) Although I do seem to recall using a few tricks of my own in the "old days."</p>
<p>My D (same LAC as Marite's son), had a lot of trouble senior year, because some leaves in her major department coincided with some pregnancies, leading to a dearth of classes. The only things open she could get into tended to be classes that were at a lower level than classes she'd already taken in similar areas--easy, but what's the point? He advisior, the department head, and the class dean all agreed, with various levels of enthusiasm, that this was her best course in order to have her reqs filled. Instead, she sat in for a couple weeks on a course that was already over cap which she really wanted, participated extensively, wrote papes, emailed with the prof (all without any assurance she'd get any credit for all this work) and finally won the prof over and was admitted into the class. It took a lot of initiative and persistence on her part. ( My more laid back son is probably better off at the bigger U he's at, where he can always find another alternative if one doesn't pan out. I'm finding it fascinating, now that I have my second in college, to see how each zeroed in on the right knd of school for their personality!)</p>
<p>My S had the opposite problem from GArland's D. He had to take a course at a much higher level of difficulty than he was prepared for. As I said, one course in 4 years is not bad. It's just unfortunate that it happened in the last semester, so that it colored his retrospective (he's gotten over it and is happy to recommend Wes).<br>
He actually found the online registration system more rigid than the old-fashioned human touch insofar as the system would not let him add a course before dropping another, so that it forced him to drop a course before he was assured that he could add the one he wanted; by the time he was in a position to do so after getting the appropriate signatures, the course he wanted had filled up, so he had to re-register for the course he'd dropped in the first place. The shopping period thus turned out to be a bit illusory.
Another issue was the classification of certain courses in the computer system. While humans were willing to consider certain courses as belonging to different departments and thus fulfilling particular requirements, the computer was not. That led to a few more contortions.
As more colleges put not only their course catalogs but also course syllabi online early, some of these issues will become moot.</p>
<p>At my D's school they register on line so when you register for class, you can see what the cap size is and how many people have already registered for the class. Also at the first few days of class are a shopping period so that you can try before you buy as manytimes when students see the syllabus they find that the lass may be different from what they anticipated. As Fendergirl also said, depending upon the professor, you can just ask to be in a class and most of the time they are pretty ameniable</p>
<p>I can't compare this issue between universities and LACs but can only comment on my own child's experience at Brown. She has not had any problems getting courses she wants. I do not think it is a lottery. I realize she is only a freshman so I only have two semesters of registering under her belt. I think at Brown, pretty much you can get into courses if you want to. Naturally, there are schedule conflicts as in any situation. But I think if you want in, you're in. I don't recall her talking about "IF I can get in". Also, there is a shopping period for the first two weeks of classes and you can switch around. I know of one course that uses a lottery system and that is the first level of studio art which is a prerequisite for any other studio art courses at Brown or at RISD. They cannot have more than a certain number in each section of that type of course. She did not get that lottery first semester which was fine with her as she preferred it second semester due to other courses but put in for it just to try to get it as she will need it to go on to other courses down the line should she end up majoring in Architectural Studies. Anyway, she got in for second semester, even at the first choice time slot. The rest of the courses did not involve any angst or efforts to get into. She just met with an advisor and figured out what she wanted and put in for it. It was not like she had to have 8 courses on her list to hope to get 4. She put in the four she wanted. Done. </p>
<p>I do recall for first semester in French, there were several sections of this level French and she preferred a different time/section than the one assigned. One of the classes was taught by the professors and the others by TA and she wanted this professor and went to her section instead and asked to be in it and she was able to stay. Loves it by the way. </p>
<p>The only thing I know of there that worked a little like some of you are describing was before she arrived, freshmen had the options of signing up for these specific freshmen seminars that were capped and so they did have to put down a few choices. She did not end up taking one of these as she preferred some other courses over these. The only other thing that worked like that was if you wanted a certain advising "system" (they have a few options at Brown)...this particular one called CAP involved signing up for a course designated as "CAP" which meant if you were in one of those, your advisor would be the professor of that course. For that, you had to give a few options. She got into what was either her first or second choice one (I forget now) which was to be during second semester. So, she could have had this course next semester (and does have that professor as her advisor now) but she has since decided that as happy as she was with getting that and is interested in that topic at some point, right now there are "regular courses" (not CAP) that she prefers. She had picked that CAP course of the CAP offerings but overall has courses she wants more so is not going to take that course afterall. But in terms of getting WHAT courses she wants, it has been a total NONISSUE so far at Brown. She has loved her courses and likes the professors. There is also an online source at Brown where the results of student evaluations of each course (involving many specific criteria) is recorded and so a student could go for a course due to the professor, etc. and know quite a bit ahead of time what other students thought of various aspects of the course. And then of course, there is the "shopping period" for ultimate deciding. While my D likes the shopping period concept, it turned out first semester that she stuck with her original choices if I recall. </p>
<p>I don't know if it is that different at Brown than elsewhere but so far this "getting into the classes you want" has not been like other stories posted here. Also, there are not all these required courses other than in the major so I don't know if that is a reason contributing to the ease of registering or not. I like that she can take what she wants as elements of choice is one thing you don't have in high school. She is truly in classes she wanted to be in and so is everyone else. Her classes are "distributed" naturally but not via being told to. Most kids there do take a wide variety of courses but it is not like they all have to take the same ones or same exact distribution requirements. </p>
<p>You can run into problems at nearly any school regarding getting into a specific class/section at a specific time. But there are some schools that are absolutely notorious about this, and they may be the colleges to avoid or if you go there be very aware that you will have to be on your toes to get the classes you want. Or hire Curmudgeon as a private consultant!</p>
<p>At Smith, there are basically 4 points of registration. There is a pre-registration. The school uses this primarily (I think) to make sure it will have enough sections for the most popular courses, and, especially, foreign langauges. Smith requires a full two-years plus one course for a student to qualify for its own JYA programs (as far as I know, the stiffest requirements in the country). And about 50% of students go abroad. So one basically has to start first term first year (though the Italian dept. now offers a double-intensive Italian in the second semester to make it possible for students to catch up.) The pre-registration ensures (in theory) enough sections - some of which will change once students arrive on campus and take placement exams.</p>
<p>Then one meets with one's advisor. Things often change at that point. Then there is the regular registration, and finally changes to be made two weeks later. The most common "close-outs" are high-demand electives, such as introductory drawing or photography, and well-known seminars, such as "Re-Enacting History". </p>
<p>With my d., "wants" changed once she met with her advisor (the relationship is very close), and she had the results of placement exams in hand. There are no distributional requirements, but advisors apparently make it a point to strongly recommend a widely distributed curriculum.</p>
<p>Yeah, Mini, I read it. Someone gave it to S who was not too interested in it after the first few chapters---more a litany of a young man's sexual awakenings and confusion. Since I read it pretty much through, I was glad, S did not. Too many ideas on things that could get him into trouble; he comes up with enough on his own. </p>
<p>Other than the MT program where the character worked, not much about MT, as Juilliard's program is purely acting or voice or dance; no MT there. </p>
<p>I found the "Charlotte Simmons" book more interesting.</p>
<p>It's funny...but I'm wondering if I'm the only parent who has no clue how classes are scheduled at my daughter's school! I knew a little bit about first semester freshmen classes - only because the info came to the house since she was still, obviously, living at home. I know it's alphabetical and by lottery but after that I don't have a clue. Since our last name is end of the alphabet sometimes it works for her and sometimes it doesn't. She has done all her second semester scheduling by herself and I have no idea whether it was tough to get classes or not. She seems to like her schedule but I will say that by the end of the year she'll have taken eight courses in eight different departments - talk about exploring your options! She did tell me that she had soph standing for scheduling so I guess her AP and college course credits helped her that way.</p>
<p>One side note: her school has winter term and when she registered for that class it was the end of the alphabet kids who had first priority so she got her first choice: a course all about poker! Husband was NOT amused to see our tuition dollars paying for this course but daughter was overjoyed: four weeks of learning all about poker ending with a tournament with prizes!! Oh, to be 18 again...</p>
<p>Marite, have not heard of that book. Not sure by the title if I wanna know, lol. </p>
<p>However, right now, it is not so much about paying for it (true I do not quite know the answer to that either) but getting into these programs is the real kicker. If you have a book on the magic formula to get in against such odds, let me know ;-). </p>
<p>At daughter's school the only required freshmen classes are freshmen writing and first year seminar. You could get an exemption from writing based on SAT scores and AP scores. If you got an exemption you took first year seminar in the fall. However this is the last year which any one will be exempted from freshman writing.</p>
<p>If you take writing in the fall, you take your seminar in the winter. If you take writing in the winter, you take seminar in the spring.</p>
<p>No matter what course you take you are allowed to choose 4 sections (because the sections cap out between 18- 20 students) and submit those choices. I think in a day or 2 you get get an e-mail back with the section you have been placed in. If it conclicts with one of your other classes, then you can make the change.</p>
<p>SHe had not problem with her winter courses and has resigned her self to the fact that labs are given in the late afternoon evenings. Because most classes are MWF, it gives her enough time to cath up with her self</p>
<p>Marite, I have to tell ya when I was reading The Nanny Diaries on the beach, it boggled my mind of the scene in certain NYC circles that dealt with nursery school admissions and having "counselors" to aid in prepping the child for these. I must live in an insular world here in VT. What an eye opener. </p>
<p>On a different front, as I was walking in Boston early yesterday AM with my D to her first college audition, she remarked that there should be a reality show that reveals what this college process was like for those in her field. I can tell you that it is nothing like the "normal" process. </p>
<p>My daughter wasn't able to get into any of the first year seminars at Smith. (She had one of the last appts. for registration.) She was originally told that she would have to go to UMass to get French, but Smith opened another class, with only 8 students.</p>