<p>An AA thread… oh god.</p>
<p>Just what the doctor ordered. Honestly… I feel that if I’m not good enough to be looked at on par with non-URM’s, then why even have us apply?</p>
<p>Again, the Ivies are not accepting unqualified applicants due to AA. If AA is a problem for you, look at the UCs or Michigan.</p>
<p>Maybe we can change the subject to legacies.</p>
<p>Easiest way to get into ivies - reverse Michael Jackson</p>
<p>If there was no AA, the number of URMs in college wouldn’t drop. AA isn’t a factor which affects someone when he/she is deciding whether to go to college or to not go to college. It only comes into play when he/she is deciding to apply to this college or that college. In other words, if there’s no AA for admissions, a particular URM might end up at Lehigh instead of Cornell, or Michigan State instead of Michigan. That’s a tragedy?</p>
<p>Cormy, I haven’t once mentioned that “it’s holistic”
That has nothing to do with the argument. I am happy to admit that with URMs sometimes they are admitted solely because of race (or race being the “different maker”). But very rarely are they unqualified or stupid.
On CC we tend to overestimate the power of AA. First of all, just because you’re Asian, it doesnt mean that you will be rejected. And just because you’re black, it doesn’t mean that you’ll be admitted.</p>
<p>I remember someone saying there was an equivalent to Godwin’s Law on CC, but for threads trending towards AA… this is exhibit A</p>
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<p>Then why not implement AA for other physical attributes that you can’t change but that also impact your chances at success? For example, I’m not tall; I don’t look like Brad Pitt. I wish I did. Yet nobody is proposing to implement AA for short, plain-looking people, even though it’s not “fair” that they were born that way. </p>
<p>So the question then is, why is race considered to be a special category? After all, every race - white, black, Asian, Hispanic, etc. - has plenty of short, ugly people. </p>
<p>And even if AA does have to key upon race perhaps to address historical grievances, why exactly does it then have to include races that had nothing to do with those grievances in the first place? After all, Asians were not the ones enslaving blacks or enforcing Jim Crow. They had nothing to do with the oppression of blacks. Similarly, plenty of “Hispanics” are lily white born of pure European (read:Spanish) blood. They were never historically discriminated against because of their race - if anything, they were the ones enacting the discrimination in their respective Hispanic home countries. Yet they’re still considered to be “Hispanic” for the purposes of affirmative action.</p>
<p>One easy way, although you do miss out on some of the recruiting and social benefits, is to go to UPenn or Columbia General Studies Programs. Yale also has Eli Whitney but its actually very selective unlike GS programs at the other two which are not nearly as selective as the normal schools. You’ll get a GS degree, but no one will ever ask after you leave school. </p>
<p>Another way is to go to one of the less selective, state funded, schools at Cornell. Finally not an Ivy, but still a good school, Emory has a pretty big back door called Oxford at Emory.</p>
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<p>You didn’t pull the false and ironically racist “it’s holistic” excuse? Well good, but I never said you did; I said lots of people do.</p>
<p>I am glad you’re able to face what AA in essence is.</p>
<p>But then you commit probably the second most common fallacy, which is to brush the issue under the table as insignificant by questioning the magnitude of the AA effect. Is it really only the “difference maker,” in your words? You think we overestimate the power of it? What information do you have about the power of AA besides your own prejudice that the power must be small so as to align with your belief that URMs at elite colleges are not THAT much different from other races? I bet you have no information but feel confident in spouting your wishful thinking. This is the kind of willful ignorance that I’m talking about concerning AA.</p>
<p>Now let’s face the truth as far as the truth is available to us: [Discriminations:</a> More On Espenshade On Affirmative Action](<a href=“http://www.discriminations.us/2010/02/more_on_espenshade_on_affirmat.html]Discriminations:”>http://www.discriminations.us/2010/02/more_on_espenshade_on_affirmat.html)</p>
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<p>Now tell me the power of AA isn’t large. The last two sentences in your post are trivially true, and downright silly in this context.</p>
<p>I’m not sure about those proposed SAT advantages/disadvantages…They seem complete ******** to me. The website itself is questionable. Have you read the other blog psots? totally psycho.</p>
<p>It’s a blog that explicitly refers to an academic study. Go look up the academic study then, but these results I’ve heard many times before, so I didn’t really care which I link I posted.</p>
<p>I like how you didn’t fess up to making your completely unjustified and clearly biased claims. At the very least, if I played the way you do, I’ll just go ahead and use this as my response instead: of course affirmative action makes a huge, astronomical difference! Asians should no longer bother applying, the power of AA is so huge. URMs prob don’t even need to study anymore. Duh, duh, and duh!</p>
<p>^ Hey. You like an advantage in admissions. I like my advantage in the classroom. Fair enough, I suppose.</p>
<p>Damn if those SAT score adjustments are true, and there was a black guy and Asian guy with identical stats, ec’s, etc, the black guy would have an over 400 pt sat difference.</p>
<p>pinkumbrella10: yes. Look into 3-2 Programs. EG, if you can get admitted to Bates (say) after 3 years, you are guaranteed entrance to Columbia Engineering school. Way easier than getting straight into Columbia from HS.</p>
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You’re sounding a bit racist here. Be careful with that.</p>
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<p>You also have the disadvantage of being a p<strong><em>k. All your little “advantages” in the classroom won’t mean *</em></strong> if you can’t translate it to a likeable personality that will wow recruiters once your grades get you interviews.</p>
<p>NuclearPenguins: Yes, that’s the implication, an all-else-being-equal score disparity between Blacks and Asians of 450. </p>
<p>I’m under the impression that this study did not have access to the subjective parts of the applicants’ applications, so what they held equal were things like economic class, gpa, class rank, legacy status, other quantifiables. But it didn’t include essays, recs, personal qualities.</p>
<p>However, taking this study in conjunction with the study that CanuckGuy posted, where URMs have worse subjective factors across the board, and the conclusion drawn may be even more severe than just a 450 point disparity. Why? Considering that the 450 point disparity exists without holding subjective factors equal, if you were to hold subjective factors equal, that would only widen the gap, because URMs have worse, not better, nor even equal, subjective factors. So the admissions difference, when expressed in SAT points, is probably quite larger than 450.</p>
<p>I think my logic is right. But the conclusion this leads me to believing is so outlandish that I hesitate to believe it. Can the difference really be so large?</p>
<p>hahalolk: I appreciate the tip. I know what you mean, I would never say that in real life. It’s a shame, though, because I basically said the logical converse of what the poster above me said. (If someone has an advantage in admissions, he has a disadvantage in whatever was being admitted for.) But I’m the one strongly, unequivocally in the wrong in society’s eyes. That’s disgusting to me, but don’t worry, I can hold it in outside. But it is nice to have a medium where I can express how I really feel. And I make a conscious effort to do so because I know otherwise I might begin to lose my grip on reality like so many people seem to have.</p>
<p>lapras: You’re a real charmer yourself. No worries, though, your insults make me stronger.</p>
<p>I’m glad you think so. There is no reason to think otherwise at least. You made a snarky comment and expected people NOT to call you out? Keep letting out your anger on threads lol, because if you made a comment like that to someone in person you’d have trouble making friends</p>
<p>I made a snarky comment to someone who made one first. And he did so gratuitously, popping in this thread and stating it proudly. I think if this were the case with a different issue, people would have taken my side. But because this is affirmative action, I’m wrong. I must be wrong. And I must be a racist even though I was turning the implications of his own words back on him.</p>
<p>Note: I am not angry with URMs or even with affirmative action as concept or policy, but rather with the blind and ignorant sentiments of most educated people in the mainstream concerning this issue.</p>
<p>^ Lol I never said anything about affirmative action or you being racist. I’m just pointing out that your comment was snarky. And then I pointed out something that’s true: No matter how much you “bring” to the classroom, that will only get you as far as your first round interview for many jobs, and if you come off as a p**** then you won’t get past that. I understand that this website is your “medium” for saying things that you wouldn’t want to say in person, but still…you don’t need to feed the ■■■■■■ just to get your daily hit in.</p>
<p>Continue on in your discussion. It’s almost 4 here and I’m going to bed :P</p>