Getting into MIT or Harvard Graduate School

Graduate School
61

<p>I wasn't hating on Harvard engineering. I was educating the OP who made the assumption that his/her main goal in college should be to get into Harvard engineering. One size does not fit all, and depending what that student's specialty and goal is, there may be far better programs.</p>

<p>Similarly, I was pointing out that disparaging an undergrad program because one of its graduates goes on for a PhD at NYU makes no sense unless you know what field that graduate was going into within cs. If that person's ambition coming out of Cal EECS is financial modeling, then for all we know scientific computation at NYU is the best, even most sought after program out there. </p>

<p>As for Harvard engineering, I do think it's true that one of its attractions is that it gives students access to MITs much larger faculty and wider range of offerings.</p>

62

<p>My profs echo the same sentiment that harvard engineering is lackluster. I was going to apply to some other solid mechanics/structural engineering programs and had mentioned columbia when they also suggested Brown or Harvard as backups even though they considered the latter 2 to be towards the bottom of the barrel. You can cite US News rankings all you want. They are not the end all be all. Fact is harvard engineering is selective. And while some of the students there didn't get into MIT, it still doesn't discount the fact that they could have gone to engineering schools better harvard on the sole basis of selectivity.</p>

63

<p>i think it is really annoying how individuals obsess with the u.s. world rankings. i have actually seen the list and there are a bunch of times when 4 graduate programs tie at one spot and are separated from other rankings by .1 of a quality point...</p>

<p>i think it would be an accurate statement to say that harvard engineering is not as great as other programs. just because its harvard does not mean its god. each school has its strong points (and for harvard engineering is not one of them)</p>

<p>their biology and math programs are pretty awesome though...</p>

64

<p>
[quote]
Similarly, I was pointing out that disparaging an undergrad program because one of its graduates goes on for a PhD at NYU makes no sense unless you know what field that graduate was going into within cs. If that person's ambition coming out of Cal EECS is financial modeling, then for all we know scientific computation at NYU is the best, even most sought after program out there.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And using the exact same logic, disparaging Harvard engineering similarly makes no sense unless you know what field the person in question is entering. That's precisely my point. Why do people feel they have the license to disparage Harvard engineering wantonly, but are far more circumspect when talking about other schools? </p>

<p>
[quote]
My profs echo the same sentiment that harvard engineering is lackluster. I was going to apply to some other solid mechanics/structural engineering programs and had mentioned columbia when they also suggested Brown or Harvard as backups even though they considered the latter 2 to be towards the bottom of the barrel.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And there it is again: terms like "lackluster", or "bottom of the barrel". My question is: lackluster or bottom of the barrel compared to WHO? Any way you want to cut it, any way you want to look at it, Harvard is in fact one of the top engineering programs out there, relative to the hundreds of programs that exist. Put another way, if Harvard is lackluster or bottom of the barrel, then what about, say, Wayne State University? Or Tennessee Tech? </p>

<p>
[quote]
Fact is harvard engineering is selective. And while some of the students there didn't get into MIT, it still doesn't discount the fact that they could have gone to engineering schools better harvard on the sole basis of selectivity.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Uh, how would you know? Grad school admissions are funny things. Who's to say that a particular person who had gotten into Harvard for engineering could have also gotten into somewhere else ranked higher? </p>

<p>At the end of the day, Harvard is one of the higher-ranked engineering programs in the country (relative to the hundreds of programs out there). Getting into ANY of these grad programs is an accomplishment, and I don't think we should ascribe any ulterior motive to people who manage to do it. </p>

<p>
[quote]
just because its harvard does not mean its god. each school has its strong points (and for harvard engineering is not one of them)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Uh, first off, nobody ever said that Harvard was "god". On the other hand, it is hardly "bottom of the barrel" either. </p>

<p>Secondly, I have to question what exactly what you mean by "strong". It seems to me that you are measuring such metrics on scale relative to the other programs at Harvard. Sure, Harvard engineering is not as strong as some of Harvard's other programs. But so what? Who cares? Just because Harvard's bio program is better than Harvard's engineering program doesn't mean that you shouldn't go to Harvard for engineering. You have to consider the other options you have available. </p>

<p>Let me put it to you this way. Engineering at Wayne State may indeed be the best program available at Wayne State. But does that mean that everybody should want to go to Wayne State for engineering, or more specifically, that everybody should turn down Harvard engineering for Wayne State? I think not.</p>

65

<p>I think people like to put Harvard down simply because they can't get into Harvard either for undergrad or for a graduate program. Thus making fun of Harvard engineering would somehow make up for their own insecurities.</p>

66

<p>
[quote]
I think people like to put Harvard down simply because they can't get into Harvard either for undergrad or for a graduate program. Thus making fun of Harvard engineering would somehow make up for their own insecurities.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yep, I think that's exactly what it is. Exactly. It's a simple matter of spite. </p>

<p>And I understand it. I think everybody - myself included - has made intemperate statements in the heat of the moment. But at the same time, there has to be some level of rationality. There has to be some level of fairness, and you have to control your emotions. By any serious measure, Harvard does indeed have one of the best engineering programs out there, compared to the hundreds and hundreds of programs that exist. Now, is it as good as transcendent programs such as MIT or Stanford? Of course not. Is Harvard engineering as good as Harvard's other programs? Again, of course not. But that's not the point. The point is that Harvard does have a quite highly ranked and strong engineering program compared to most other schools.</p>

67

<p>Considering a large amount of posters here go to better and more prestigious engineering schools than Harvard, I beg to differ.</p>

68

<p>how about people put harvard down because THEY HAVE A WEAK ENGINEERING PROGRAM? Go look at their list for companies that recruit their engineers- its a total joke.Go look at their 'engineering' curriculum-joke.It doesnt make sense to go there at all if you want to be an engineer. Now if you want a flexible curriculum were you can take courses outside of engineering, and you're not sure you want to be an engineer, then you can go there for undergrad and then go to a well respected engineering school for a masters/phd.IMO the only reason they're that highly ranked is because well its HARVARD. Personally,I would compare it to engineering schools ranked in the 60's/70's.</p>

69

<p>......enough with this already. </p>

<p>"the only reason they're that highly ranked is because well its HARVARD."</p>

<p>I'm pretty sure US News ranks Harvard with the same standards as any other school. They actually publish their methods, and it doesn't say "we made an exception for Harvard Engineering...because..well...it's HARVARD!" </p>

<p>I'm sure you have your personal rankings, and Harvard might be last on your chart, and we can bash on Harvard together once your rankings are published by any respectable publisher.</p>

70

<p>I'm pretty sure because it is harvard, their endowment is pretty big due to rich alumni.. which translates to an inflated ranking..</p>

71

<p>So you think it's unfair for a program within a school with a big endowment that can fund the great facilities, faculty, and students to be ranked highly? Harvard isn't the only school with a huge endowment. Schools like other Ivies, MIT, and Stanford all have big endowments. Would you say it's unfair that their various programs (law, business, undergrad, etc) are highly ranked because they have a huge endowment...which translates to an inflated ranking? Please help me understand your logic. Should we look at programs in schools with barely any endowment at higher regards because those programs are not adulterated by their school's endowments?</p>

72

<p>I think its hilarious even this guy acknowledges this "issue":</p>

<p>"There is one question that every Harvard engineering student has been asked at some point or another: “So you are studying engineering… why are you at Harvard?” " : </p>

<p>Harvard</a> School of Engineering and Applied Sciences - Undergraduate Study - Student Profiles</p>

<p>Essentially hes going there for the liberal arts component. Thats great. Really.</p>

73

<p>Sakky:</p>

<p>Bottom of the barrel among the top 50. There are you happy? Still doesn't discount the fact that most people on here shouldn't be going to Harvard Engineering for its education as most of the people at these forums seem to be among the top applicants. You don't exactly see people coming here asking for chances to Wayne State and Tennessee, now do you? </p>

<p>As for selectivity, see this:
Harvard</a> School of Engineering and Applied Sciences - Admissions - Graduate - Data</p>

<p>You're telling me MOST of the admitted students to harvard didn't get into one of either:</p>

<p>Stanford University, MIT, UC-Berkeley, Carnegie Mellon University, Columbia University, Cambridge University (UK). </p>

<p>?</p>

<p>Must have had some super ****ty advisors then or you're delusional.</p>

74

<p>Harvard doesn't indicate what their yield is. I'm sure many of the top students apply to Harvard as a safety. Also, as I have stated previously, maybe as a safety for funding. Not all Phd track programs give full funding, especially for the first year. The Ivies pretty much provide full funding in this respect. Some people would prefer knowing they have full funding for their time in grad school. Blah thinks that everybody gets fantastic funding at the top schools which is simply not the case. He needs to talk to people other than his select group of stars.</p>

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<p>Although not explicitly given, harvard's yield is 52%. Its easily calculated given their data or US News data using acceptance rate and entering class size.</p>

76

<p>Interesting. Can you guys please tell me how long a typical Phd in Engineering would take for a biochemistry major. your help would be appreciated. People say 4-5 years but I want to make sure</p>

77

<p>While I agree that the webmaster for the Harvard SEAS website has lost his/her logic in stating as a defence “most people who don’t go to Harvard go to Stanford/MIT”, I do know quite a few people who rejected schools like stanford/MIT/Caltech/Berkeley to go to harvard SEAS. When I was in MIT for my masters, a cross-registering guy from Harvard told me he got accept into MIT DMSE for PhD, but didn’t come because MIT didn’t match him to the subfield he wanted to be(actually he can change later, but he didn’t know that then) and his Harvard potential group matched his interests better. I knew another guy from Harvard who got accepted into MIT, Stanford, Caltech and Harvard all with full fellowship(2007), he decided to go to Harvard, though I don’t why. </p>

<p>This year, I myself has been torn with the same problem, but only fellowship from Harvard(Applied physics) and RA from the other schools(MSE for all, except AS&T from berkeley). I haven’t decided where I will go yet(though only 2 weeks left), but I’m seriously considering Harvard, because my potential advisor there is a world renowned professor whose group is doing things that are very intriguing to me and I heard he is collaborating with a Nobel Laureate from the Chem department. </p>

<p>I do agree that Harvard engineering is low in ranking, I personally think that might be due to the lack of organization(faculty of arts and science-> science -> departments ->division of engineering) and Harvard’s de-emphasis in engineering in the past few decades. They seem to set engineering as the first priority in the next decade with the new school of engineering set up and huge amount of funding coming in. </p>

<p>Like what they said “we have great faculties and great students, yet we are unknown relatively to other Harvard departments”. guess setting up the new engineering school will be their first step to get “known”. </p>

<p>well, back to my dilemma…</p>

78

<p>It seems like you were admitted to Harvard Applied Science. There seems like a confusion between Harvard Engineering Science and Harvard Applied Science. SEAS is called Harvard School of Engineering and Applied Science. The Applied Science part is very good and not ranked with Engineering. In fact, Harvard Applied Science was initiated by Van Vleck, Nobel Laureate in Physics, and it was joint with Engineering not long ago I think for funding purposes. In fact, Applied Science has never been associated with Engineering ranking. The ranking from Engineering doesn’t reflect anything for Applied Science as you can see most faculties in Applied Science are from other departments. If you look at the faculties in Harvard Applied Science, I honestly think very few schools and departments can challenge that. And doing your PhD, most important is who you work for. Moreover, looking at the famous alumni from Harvard Applied Science, I can almost say that the ratio of successful graduates is possibly the highest among all the science and engineering departments in every school in the world. And Harvard is very rich, every admitted student is offered fellowship. In fact, when I visited the school, nearly every one in Applied Science has multiple offers from other great universities, this ratio is no doubt higher than MIT and Stanford (EE, I am not sure about other disciplines). And I think Harvard Applied Science probably has one of the (if not the) highest rate that admitted students accept the offer. As of Engineering, Harvard is small which is why it is ranked low. It is only half of the size of Caltech FTE. If you look at the US News ranking, look at how many faculties there are, you will be surprised that Harvard Engineering ranks the same with Princeton by only having half of the number of faculties. In last year’s ISI productivity ranking, Harvard ranks number one in engineering beyond any research institute including Bell Lab, etc. Of course, that includes the commitment from Applied Science and Sciences. This year, National Academy of Sciences ranked Harvard Engineering very high. This is probably the most anticipated ranking. As you can see, National Academy of Sciences ranks the Applied Science in a different ranking away from Engineering. So don’t confuse Harvard Engineering with Applied Science.</p>

79

<p>I too know a MS biochemist from Penn with 43 on MCAT who does nothing. Just because you are a genius it does not mean anything until you actually do something good with it. Further, just because you have a degree from an ivy league it also does not mean much since you still have to apply yourself. Remember there is always someone smarter than you. And, nothing will simply fall in your lap just because you went to Harvard, for instance. Many go there and have lots of debt afterwards. Anyway, I know plenty of people from lesser known state schools who are doing much better than a large number of ivy leaguers.</p>

80

<p>Aside from the Harvard vs. MIT debate, I was wondering if anyone has information (or statistics?) for international applicants from Canada applying to MIT’s graduate school of engineering. </p>

<p>I am in the top 5 percentile of my civil engineering program, and my cumulative GPA is somewhere between a 3.8 and 3.9 on a 4.0 scale (depending on how it’s converted from my school’s 13.0 scale). My first two semesters are the main reason as to why my GPA isn’t a 4.0. Ever since then, my GPA has been rising and I have two semesters left, after which I expect my cumulative GPA to rise to about a 3.9. </p>

<p>I recently went on a tour in the USA, and visited advisers and professors in the graduate schools of engineering at MIT, Caltech, Stanford & Berkeley. I am submitting my application for Fall 2013, and I am scheduled to write my GRE next month. I will be submitting at least three reference letters and I could use any helpful tips! I could also really use some advice in regards to my statement of purpose. It’s difficult to keep it concise and focused, since I’ve done so many things in the past few years in many countries around the world that drive me to pursue a graduate program in top engineering schools. Also, I don’t have any room to squeeze in some experiences from the past that require detailed explanation, and I think it would really help illustrate my story. Is there another essay that I can write or another way to communicate a lot more experiences from my past that define me and my goals? I have a lot to write about, but I’m having difficulty choosing which parts to include. I’m on my 4th draft, and I don’t think I’ll feel confident about it until I conjure up a few more drafts at least…</p>

<p>Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance :D</p>