Will a student with a 4.28 GPA, 1460 SAT (800 math, 660 English) top 7% of class, engineering major get through a first round review of application at schools like Wash U, UVA, Michigan, Lehigh, Tufts? Assuming after first round they then read essays, extracurriculars etc.
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Many schools don’t read apps like you are suggesting, the first reader reads the app in its entirety.
Many schools will also look at your unweighted GPA, core courses only, on a 4 pt scale, where any flavor of A = 4, B=3 and so on.
Will have a total of 8 AP’s with her senior year schedule. A couple of B+’s and the rest
A- or A for all 3 years of HS so far. Not sure what unweighted GPA is since school doesn’t differentiate.
Calculate it yourself.
So rather than try to answer for each of those schools, I think a useful thing to do is show you a process.
The process I would recommend is going back to a recent Common Data Set, but from before the school went test optional if possible. The reason for that is in a test-optional world, interpreting Common Data Set information as applied to test scores gets tricky.
OK, so here is one for WUSTL:
Next, we can look at C9, which reports some information on the test scores of enrolled students. We sure would love detailed information on admitted students and non-admitted students by test score, but we don’t have that. But at least looking at enrolled students, WUSTL was at 1480 for the 25th Percentile, 1560 for the 75th Percentile.
OK, so a 1460 is below the 25th Percentile. To be very blunt, I think that means that is not likely to be good enough to score as competitive for WUSTL admissions if you are an unhooked candidate. In fact, I would probably consider not submitting such a score to WUSTL.
As a little proof of concept, here is WUSTL’s latest CDS, which now reflects being test optional:
Looking at C9, the 25th Percentile is up to 1500, 75th 1570. This sure looks like enrolled students who would have been low by the old distribution are opting out of submitting, and that was probably a good idea.
OK, so what about GPA? There is a basic issue that normalizing GPAs takes a lot of work. This is part of why these colleges get a school report and often an individualized counselor report, to help them normalize GPA. And we can’t really simulate that with the necessary accuracy.
Still, you can look at C12 and see the average GPA reported by WUSTL pre-test-optional was 4.21, and most recently was 4.22. That is quite stable. I again cannot really tell you how a 4.28 in your case truly compares, but at least prima facie, it seems like that certainly could be competitive for WUSTL.
OK, so off hand, it appears to me this student should be considering submitting only grades and not test scores to WUSTL, but if they do that they may well be competitive academically. Maybe for engineering specifically, the 800 is enticing, but I think sometimes people overestimate the degree to which these schools will overlook a low English score, because they really want all their students to be good readers/writers. And I think people also overvalue high scores, particularly “perfect” scores–that’s nice, but one of the reasons many are considering staying test optional is they are confirming the main information is coming out of grades/transcripts/schools, and tests are really not all that useful as a type of information.
Anyway, you can do this with the CDSs for any school you would like. Although it gets tricky when you are out of state for a public . . . but that’s a whole other thing.
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This is an understatement for sure.
First step is to understand if (and then how) schools recalculate GPA for all applicants in the admissions process, or if they simply use what’s on the transcript. That info may be on the website or not. Signs that a school recalculates include if they use common app Courses and Grades (like U Wisc), or if they use the SRAR (like U Pitt), or if they have their own system that admissions is transparent about (like U Florida, UGA)
As I’ve posted before, unless one knows exactly how GPA in the CDS is calculated, it is worthless. So for WashU…clearly that’s not unweighted GPA as it’s greater than 4.0.
Further, does it include core courses only? Is PLTW core? Or does it include all courses, such as PE and other electives?
Lastly, some schools’ institutional reporting departments (the peeps who complete the CDS) calculate an average GPA in a way that is completely different from how GPA is calculated and used in admissions. Yep. 
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High schools calculate weighted gpa differently. Ours went up to 4.4, some go up to 6. A - 4, B - 3, C - 2…
Just a quick supplement. I thought it made sense to look at MIT to get some information on the low English score issue. Obviously MIT is hypercompetitive, but they also require test scores, so I think this is a useful window into how a school like that might think about the subscores. And here is the relevant section of their latest CDS:
OK, so, 25th Percentile SAT Math is 790, ACT Math is 35. Not a surprise, you normally need to be really good at math to get admitted to MIT.
But SAT English 25th Percentile is still 730, ACT English is still 35. Not as high, but still quite high.
Let’s do Georgia Tech too:
At the 25th Percentile, SAT Math is 700, ACT Math and Science are 30. SAT English is 670, ACT English and Reading are 32 (huh).
Anyway, I think this shows something similar–Georgia Tech is also not compromising too much on English subscores.
So, I’m pretty sure that SAT combination would not be good for MIT–too many people are going to have those sorts of Math scores, and the English score is way low for them.
Georgia Tech, you would be above their 75th for Math (790), below their 25th for English . . . tough call, and likely contextual. As in, what do your grades and other qualifications say about math skills versus reading/writing skills.
I am Midwestern, so understatement is how we roll.
But yes, this is a virtually impossible task to do with the desired precision at many schools (basically all the ones that are not very transparent) using publicly-available data.
I think potentially experienced counselors at a given high school may be able to give you a more informed assessment of how your transcript compares to the students from that high school that they have seen admitted to a certain college or at least reasonably close peers.
But many high school students do not have such a resource available, and that may mean that a really accurate assessment simply isn’t going to be possible.
Thank you for all these responses. Just to mention, which I should have done initially, she wants to ED to either Wash U or UVA. Not sure what it’s worth and it was just 1 persons opinion…We did visit Wash U in April and asked an admissions counselor about what to do with her SAT score…She said that with an 800 in Math and she wants to study engineering she would recommend submitting it.
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Most don’t.
As a sample of one, my kids’ HS (large, affluent, public, highly ranked) dedicated college counselors (so no social emotional counseling responsibilities) have no idea about the issues I posted above. They would use Naviance scattergrams, which are less than helpful now because they choose not to load whether an applicant applied TO or not to each school.
The answer is - your app should/will be seen in its entirety - if you listen to the schools.
But you’re asking will you be admitted.
You won’t know if you don’t try.
As for knowing an unweighted gpa and not every school will calculate but it’s easy. If your student got an A it’s a 4, B is a 3. Don’t worry about + and minus.
If you don’t apply, you can’t get in - that I know. And for engineering a strong math is good.
ED is worth it if and only if it’s a top choice and you’re willing to pay full freight assuming you are full pay. Depending on the UW GPA, the student can probably qualify for massive merit aid at a great engineering program - so assuming you are a full pay family - it’s important to know you can pay low $20s, $30, $40, $50k a year vs $90k plus for a great degree. If you love the school and are willing to pay the $90k plus, then go ahead. Some don’t realize they can save hundreds of thousands and potentially get the same or a similar position.
What type of engineering ?
Best of luck to you but I’d say apply so you’d know if you get in or not. As for TO or not , that’s a tough call as the English will be short. Have you thought about taking the ACT? A school like Tufts is barely over half submitting so is likely submit. And the 800 says a lot to all. But I’d look school by school but might lean toward submitting given the major. For many schools the test matters less than four years of school.
You’d be a strong candidate for Lehigh most certainly but you never know about the others. It’s worth applying if interested because the worst they can say is no. But like everyone, make sure you have a balanced list.
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Thank you. Not sure of specific engineering major but leaning towards biomedical
Just an opinion but I would think long and hard on that. Submitting would signify that you are at the 75th percentile for math. Nice but given that the 25th percentile is 770M for students submitting it is safe to say that solid Math scores are typical for UWStl applicants.
That is all positive but you would also be pointing out that your daughters verbal score of 660 is well below the 25th percentile of submitting students.
As an aside and only partially applicable here my DD just went through a pre-read at WUStl and the coach submitted her SAT scores because of her 780V score. Her 780M wasn’t anything that he felt would standout.
Wow, some depressing news I guess for her and her Wash U chances
Requirements for athletic recruits should not be extrapolated to non-recruits or unhooked applicants. There are too many factors impacting whether or not a recruit is told by the coach (as a messenger from the AO) to apply with a test score or not…it’s not germane to your kid’s decision if they aren’t a recruit.
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IMHO, there’s nothing to get depressed about. Can your D retake the SAT, focusing on Verbal (but not giving up on Math either)? Or as suggested above, can she try for the ACT?
The thing about the SAT Verbal is that the answers are all there. There are some “trick” questions that require understanding these kinds of questions in advance. It’s definitely doable!
Best of luck to your D.
We have tried to get her to take it again but she doesn’t want to. We can’t force her 
whatever happens happens…she will likely apply ED and hope for a killer personal statement and all the rest 
Got it. Still, all the best. She has a lot to be proud of.
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We just went through this with our DS 23. Was a long shot but he got into his dream school via ED.
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