<p>I'm smelling some circular logic. So diversity is good because it offers a diverse environment? And diversity in what, different tastes in food and folk music?
Exposing different cultures...this is so hypocritical. 4/5 the students at least I met so far at brown have no idea where 99% of the rest of the Earth is, unless they heard of it on mtv. And you want to tell me how much exposing cultures means to you? This really does sound like a zoo. You think that going around staring "uuuuu what a freaky man i met, i wonder if they wear socks or have a government in his homeland in asia...that's an island right? I wonder how they get electricity all the way to an island..if they have any" serves any purpose other than entertainment, the kind that a zoo provides? This country is diverse already as is, the issues are deeper than this, mostly having to do with ignorance. And planning to deal with it by populating the campus with different cultures, so that the chance of randomly meeting someone different increases slightly, is stupid. It's how you make 1 years olds do things. The technique is remarkably similar to that of planting vitamins or other crap in the 1 year olds food, so that he would gobble them unknowingly, because he otherwise doesn't want them.</p>
<p>Maybe what you actually need is a student body with diverse opinions or ideas, not diverse skin color and language. I could see that being a bonus. If it were also stimulated. It isn't at all. Because the attention is always shifted at other ********. </p>
<p>
[quote]
To those who still doubt: Suppose that suddenly today, race ceased to exist and everybody was white and had no recollection or influence of being anything else. Would America be just as diverse as it was before?
[/quote]
Thankfully, no. This way racism would disappear. I see no loss in that.</p>
<p>I think diversity is crap. They want diversity THAT REFLECTS POPULATION TRENDS IN THE US AS A WHOLE. In other words no group is allowed to excel more than other ones even if they are qualified to do so. If they wanted perfect racial diversity they could just have 25 percent white, 25 percent black, 25 percent latino, and 25 percent Asian. But then there would be major protests. The problem with the Asian community is that we don't stand up for ourselves in an organized way. This is partially because of our culture of obedience to authority and because of language barriers for immigrants.</p>
<p>in comment to negru's ideas, the thing is, diverse skin color and language often go hand in hand with diverse opinions or ideas. There is no doubt that people have certain levels of comfort with people with similar backgrounds, and different comfort levels with people with different backgrounds/ideas. That's how cliques come about; people tend to congregate with people of like backgrounds. Diversity isn't just about a different skin color or language; it is about and finding a common ground through culture (food and folk music included), hypocritical although this may be. </p>
<p>In the scenario posed earlier, if race ceased to exist, people would always come up with something to distinguish from each other. Also, saying that race could cease to exist is the same idea as saying that individuals could cease to exist. Race doesn't just involve skin color; what about facial characteristics? We would all look the same. What an odd concept</p>
<p>BUT, college admission based upon diversity, is granted, unfair. Diversity still doesn't hurt, though</p>
<p>Well if you rely on your race and skin color to offer you individuality, something is awfully wrong.</p>
<p>
[quote]
diverse skin color and language often go hand in hand with diverse opinions or ideas.
[/quote]
It's true, but only indirectly. If you wanted diverse ideas, you would simply admit people who express different ideas, not different race, and hope that because they have different race they think differently too.
So, are you saying that diversity has a different beneficial impact on the campus than say planting some nice flowers around would? So it wouldn't be so dull. Anything else?
How will having some I dunno people from congo around help me in any way? What, I'll just learn more about their country and become more world-aware? I don't need to meet people from congo to know that they don't all live in coconut houses, and their country isn't on the moon.</p>
<p>Finding a common ground? You talk like a campus is a battlefield. It's just a place where you study your own **** make some friends and have fun with them. If you're in college to learn about the world, you are simply 10 years late in life</p>
<p>^^^ to you, negru, i would quote "you can lead a man to water, but you cannot make him drink". You can surround people with as much diversity and opportunity as possible, and they still won't take advantage of it. I think that if you went somewhere as diverse as Brown and truly took the time to get to know the diverse group of people around you, then i highly doubt that you would call diversity worthless. And many people do go to college to learn something more about the world. Something outside of the bubble that they were raised in. </p>
<p>"don't need to meet people from congo to know that they don't all live in coconut houses, and their country isn't on the moon."
-but you could gain a lot from interacting with someone from congo. and you would be surprised at the stereotypes that some people have. </p>
<p>^^^Keshira, i think that you are confusing the ideas of supporting diversity with the discrimination that may occur against asians in college admissions. Most people who support racial diversity do not believe in "placing a cap" on the enrollment of any group.</p>
<p>negru, i dont think you understand the benefit that can come from interacting with someone who has had different experiences than you. And even somebody who grew up black in a predominantly white area had a very unique experience compared to all of his white peers. And it seems like your whole point is that you don't even want diversity, it doesn't matter to you. If that's the case then go to a school like Bob Jones university where diversity is discouraged, or go to some other school where diversity isn't a goal. Don't try to force your selfish beliefs on others.</p>
<p>I'm not saying diversity is bad. It's just way overrated. I'd rather have some students in my physics class that would employ a different thinking in solving a problem, than hanging out with someone who has never seen snow before. I mean sure, it's entertaining but it's stupid to call that "gaining anything useful".
And besides the what, 2-3% of international students, everyone is the same, regardless of race. It's not your race that matters, it's you, and where you lived. "diversity" should be based on that, not race. I know several "asians" and "europeans" and "afro-americans"...they lived in the US since birth or 4 years...I don't see any diversity in them more than in any random american from new york or whatever. But I see more differences in many things between a new yorker and a californian. Does this tell us anything? Yes, that assuming race or ethnicity to provide diversity isn't just prejudiced, it's plain wrong. So you think that a place like bob jones is non-diverse because everyone is the same color, OR because they all think the same? This is what I'm asking. Is skin diversity important, or diversity of MENTALITY ? If it's actually the second you want, then base admissions on diverse INDIVIDUALS, not races.</p>
<p>im sure many people would agree that diversity in thought is better, and colleges pursue that diversity as well, in addition to geographic and socioeconomic diversity.
And if you don't see any diversity in the experience of asian-americans or african americans, then you need to look a little harder.</p>
<p>and colleges do base admission on diverse INDIVIDUALS, AA is only legal on an individual and holistic basis. I personally believe that with all other things equal, university A with a good representation of all races, ethnicities, and cultures is going to be quite a bit more diverse than university B thats 100% one race.</p>
<p>Well diverse in what sense? And with how much of the student body would you expect someone to interact anyway to see any difference? That "a bit more diverse" is totally meaningless statistically. Not so meaningless statistically though for a student who doesn't get in because someone else did through AA.</p>
<p>And while I do appreciate the oh so big interest in learning about other cultures, and agree that college is an excellent place to do so, this is not the main purpose of it. And what do you REALLY learn about other cultures? You do get to learn a lot through a long and closer relationship with someone, but by that time the particular details you learn about the person greatly out weigh in importance the general things you learn about the culture. After 4 years of being close friends with someone, you won't refer to them as "this asian-black guy i met", you will call him a friend. No race in that, right? Just a side-atribute.
And if we're not talking about long relationships, what can you possibly learn? Most "americans" i met so far, the REALLY interested ones in learning about other cultures, would ask things like "do you have a president in romania? does mango grow there? do you have many celebrities like we do? what kind of music do your people listen to, do you have mtv?. Like <strong><em>, you can totally read that on wikipedia instead of further proving to me the stereotypically prejudiced european idea of how ignorant, uneducated and ,most of all, hypocritical people are here.
So you want to learn about other cultures? Well learn where the hell my country is on the moon first. I know where congo is. You don't care? Well that's perfectly fine, but cut the "diversity is important to us" </em></strong>*** then. I don't really care about congo either. I still know where it is though.</p>
<p>some new challengers have entered the stage is all. so let me just state this first:</p>
<p>no one here will be able to convince anyone else that their side is correct. not here will anyone change laws or college rules. reading through this thread alone brings several opinions (including my own) about the subject of affirmative action. that should be enough. let it lie.</p>
<p>I guess I'm focusing on that aspect more because it seems the most unfair part of it, but my point is that the "caps" or other less blatant preferences, when applied to a racial basis, are really just racism hidden under flowery words.</p>
<p>Instead of letting it lie, we really should be doing something about it. That's what frustrates some people... that people are just... letting it lie. Even when they think it is unfair.</p>
<p>we fought this for about 200 posts straight on this thread alone. people won't change their minds, not here. as the saying goes, everyone is right on the internet.</p>
<p>he's right. I'm not going to be able to convince negru to value racial diversity. </p>
<p>Other people aren't going to be able to convince me that diversity isn't an important part of a student body and that colleges shouldn't have the right to consider race, gender, culture, and geography in admissions. </p>
<p>luckily the status quo is in my favor, and doesn't seem to be changing any time soon. States such as Michigan are on the swing to revert to the pre-proposal 2 days as the Michigan article on the board suggest. </p>
<p>-But i would like people to reflect on why the overwhelming majority of people in education, not just at universities, support AA and diversity in the student body?</p>
<p>I'm just jumping in here without having read the entire discussion. If I recall correctly, in the Michigan Supreme Court case, there were briefs filed by corporate leaders favoring AA in higher education. Having been out in the world, they see that the workforce is diverse, the client base/consumer base is diverse, businesses operate in a global manner as never before, and because of this, they argued in favor of having college educations prepare future leaders and others to work in diverse environments. How better to do this than to provide a diverse group of students? And although the Michigan case dealt with racial diversity, there is no question but that colleges consider socioeconomic and geographic diversity (both from within the US and internationally) in admissions decisions. Some colleges take great efforts in assigning roommates/suitemates for freshmen so that they have exposure to kids unlike themselves.</p>