<p>I have 3 kids in college (plus a high school frehman...yes I know this was poor planning, LOL). Of course this is all financially punishing on a public school teacher's salary. #2 child has been a delight, the least demanding of my kids. She has spent the last 2 years being semi-miserable at a small, private, medicore all girls college in the midwest that she attended because they offered a full ride. Unbeknownst to me she applied for transfer admission to NYU at the urging of our neighbor who is director of a prestigious theater; he has seen her perform and has always been wowed. I was flabbergasted last week when a big NYU envelope arrived---she has been accepted to NYU Tisch School as a musical theater student. My brief euphoia was oveshadowed by rising panic. She is truly a gifted perfomer; NYU is her dream; her current school just isn't big enough to contain her aspirations. However she is only being offered $10K in financial aid which leaves $40K/year for us to come up with for the next 2 years...parent plus loans, student loans, whatever combinations we can come up with between us. (Her dad, soon to be my ex, has no interest in financing college, alas.) I am 90% sure we are going to plunge ahead and do it. I guess I am looking for some encourgagement as I am feeling a lot of anxiety!</p>
<p>Yikes. I am not even sure where to begin. How close are the others to graduating?</p>
<p>Well, to begin (but there is indeed a lot there.) Assuming you and your d. will come up with $10,000 cash a year, you'll need loans totaling $60k. At 8.5% interest (if you can get it, that's a federal PLUS loan - more likely you'll be paying around 11.5%), the monthly payment comes to $743.91 for 10 years ($843 if at 11.5%). I think you can safely assume that a beginning actor out of school will not be able to pay for the loan for a while, so you'll need to incorporate that into your thinking as you plan your finances.</p>
<p>to fill in the blanks....</p>
<p>Oldest has one more left at university in the UK (which is less than one-third the price of NYU!)</p>
<h1>3 is a soph. (#2 and #3 are "irish twins" and graduated in the same year.) I am paying manageable OOS tuition as he is on the WUE program.</h1>
<h1>4 is a high school freshman at a pricey private school on half scholarship, he wants to attend a public instate college when the time comes, bless him. LOL.</h1>
<p>I have rationalized this NYU thing by telling myself that her degree will
come out to "only" $25K a year if the first two free years are averaged with the last two 100K years. Of course, this all defeats the purpose of that full ride in the midwest where she is, unfortunately, very unchallenged and very unhappy.</p>
<p>Well Eloise, we can rationalize things however we want; you have 4 kids you need to provide for with some semblance of balance. When my d. got into NYU with the same sort of inadequate financial aid, I rationalized that I told my son "yes" to a college at $20K/year, but "no" to $30K/year .... so it was "no" to NYU unless my d. could come up with some really great outside scholarship.</p>
<p>Your d. didn't tell you she was applying to NYU and she didn't ask whether you could pay.... so it seems to me that she can't possibly be expecting that you will.</p>
<p>Has it occured to you that, like my d., yours is fully aware of the financial limitations but was simply hoping that NYU would give her more aid? So maybe you really aren't the dream-crusher when you say no: it is NYU that is giving inadequate aid. There obviously are many, less-costly programs that your daughter could transfer into if she is unhappy with her current school. </p>
<p>Anyway, it is up to you of course. But I think you would be doing your daughter a favor if you say no to this. There are many ways for a young person to get launched in a theatrical career, but debt is going to hold her back. She might be much better off to defer her dreams for 2 more years while she finishes out her degree -- and then, being debt-free, she could afford to audition for various roles and live with the uneven income of a budding performer.</p>
<p>Yikes here also.</p>
<p>We have just faced very similar circumstances at our house. I know how difficult the situation is. Our son received an invitation to transfer to his dream conservatory with some merit $$$. But the balance was still staggering for our family, especially since he would need to 'repeat' one year. He is disappointed, I know. He applied knowing that the numbers would have to be feasible. We knew it would be much more than his current school and we were willing to 'stretch' our already stretched budget. We labored over the numbers, options, possible commute vs on campus, etc.<br>
Ultimately, we couldn't sign onto huge PLUS loans. The needs of our younger disabled daughter and our own retirement kept pulling us back.</p>
<p>It was not easy to tell him 'no' after the incredible effort on his part to earn the acceptance. Many others here on CC have shared similar stories....and each family's comfort level differs when dealing with a large tuition bill. Only you will know what you can handle.</p>
<p>Our son IS transferring but not to his dream school. He is headed to a larger program with bigger challenges than his current school, he hopes. He also auditioned his way into a 5 week summer music program (with merit aid). He'll have his first brand new instrument along for that trip. Kind of a consolation prize, but also a 'tool' of his profession he will use for many years.<br>
Do we wish that we could deliver this heart's desire? YES! What we can do is continue to support his path in the manner consistent with our ability to pay for it. </p>
<p>I truly wish you luck reaching the right answer for your family.</p>
<p>I believe that I would have been very angry that my D applied without discussing it with me first, especially the financial aspect. I would also be angry with the neighbor being involved with this, behind my back. Is the neighbor paying? Somehow, I think I know the answer.</p>
<p>Our family would have to say no to this, but every family is different, and has a different set of circumstances.</p>
<p>Can't you find a compromise school? Maybe a good state school? NYU is too expensive for most people -- to say nothing of a teacher's salary!</p>
<p>Alas, lots of kids turn down "dream schools" beacuse their parents simply can't afford them. Your daughter is in fine company.</p>
<p>Eloise, I am a fiscal conservative and in most cases, would make the "practical" choice.</p>
<p>However, I do have some awareness of the extreme selectivity of NYU's Tisch program. Your D's acceptance as a transfer is a very strong indicator of the degree of her talent. That would cause me to pause to see if there is a reasonable way the dream could be fostered. </p>
<p>I suggest you post your query on the Musical Theater sub-forum, where many parents are familiar with the Tisch program as well as possible alternatives. </p>
<p>If you would like, I could move this thread over there. Let me know. (You can PM me.)</p>
<p>Can you go back to NYU and beg for more aid? The package sounds way too low for a teacher's salary with two others in college!</p>
<p>I'm of a mind with JEM. NYU is notorious for stingy financial aid. But its MT program is almost the Cal Tech equivalent for Physics. Ummmm.
Ummmmmmmmmmm. </p>
<p>I feel both the anxiety and the pull.</p>
<p>Well, I agree it is a very fine program. Prestigious even. But if she was good enough to transfer in to such a program, she is also likely good enough to succeed without it. It's not like it will land her in a better graduate school, r that such is even a goal. There's probably no field that is more purely talent-driven than musical theater. </p>
<p>Anyone know what school Ethel Merman attended? Carol Channing? Rosalind Russell? (see, I'm showing my age.) And, if you know, when you go to see them, do you care?</p>
<p>Anyhow, whatever you decide, go into it with financial eyes wide open. NYU is notoriously stingy on aid, and is famous for "gapping", so it is highly unlikely that it is going to get any better.</p>
<p>can your daughter going to NYU declare herself financially independent? that enables her to receive much more aid.</p>
<p>I also see an undercurrent here in the OP's original post about this particular child. She characterizes this child #2 as having always been the "least demanding" of her kids who perhaps selected her current school with a nod to the family's finances and has been maybe quietly accepting the less than satisfactory experience for that same reason.</p>
<p>I don't mean that for this reason the family should go into unrealistic debt. But I do think the mom is responding to this dynamic in thinking maybe she should try to find a way.</p>
<p>I think JEM and anxiousmom have it right - try the Musical Theatre Forum; perhaps PM soozievt (with her extensive expertise in MT and Tisch), and see about re-approaching NYU about the finaid package.</p>
<p>There are other posters here (one of the Dads, in particular, but I forget which one) who have experience in how best to approach a school when appealing the financial package. So you might also start a thread titled something like "Appealling finaid package: how to do it."</p>
<p>All of that said, I do agree with the wise posters here who feel you shouldn't feel guilty - or that you are the dream crusher - if the finances are just not feasible for you. Night panics and financial stress to the max is not a burden you should feel obligated to take up.</p>
<p>"I believe that I would have been very angry that my D applied without discussing it with me first, especially the financial aspect. I would also be angry with the neighbor being involved with this, behind my back. Is the neighbor paying? Somehow, I think I know the answer.:"</p>
<p>I agree with this. If your D wanted to transfer, the way to do it since she expected you to pay would have been to discuss this with you beforehand and explore the financial aspects of the transfer.</p>
<p>Is your D willing to get loans to pay the extra costs of NYU? Is she planning to work 2 jobs over the summer? Just what is she willing to do to support what is after all her dream?</p>
<p>If she's gung ho on NYU, my suggestion to her would be to take a year off, work a job and devote all of her $ to saving for NYU -- and also to be willing to take out loans, work summers, etc. to pay for the extra costs.</p>
<p>Another option would be to take a year off and work while applying to colleges that she likes that are cheaper than NYU.</p>
<p>I would be ticked at both D and the neighbor. If your D wants to transfer, unless she or the neighbor is footing the bill, what she did is not the way. In saying "no," I don't suggest that you blame yourself. Your D needs to understand that it's fine to dream -- if one also is wiling to pick up the costs of one's dream. No attains their dreams at no cost.</p>
<p>I'll come out on the side of trying to make it work. Its so hard to be admitted to NYU program, and probably even harder as a transfer (but I don't really know).
I've said this in prior posts, but I did let my S go to a dream school. I think it was only school that didn't offer him merit $. He began with little jobs, got a research job first summer, and a fabulous internship this summer. He never needs to say "thanks"; he's in his element and, in his own way, trying to keep costs down. I truly don't think he would have as many opportunities at a different school.
On the other hand, your D applied without discussion. Let her call NYU and talk about $ and summer jobs. I suspect she never dreamed she would be accepted, and she should be a part of striving for a realistic solution.</p>
<p>I like Northstarmom's suggestion of your D considering deferring admission for a year while she works and saves for this opportunity. That way the decision will be in your D's hands, and she will be the one to decide how much she is willing to sacrifice to do it.</p>
<p>I'm sure she applied, thinking that her chances of being accepted were slim and hoping that the financial aid package would be good. Looks like she was wrong on both counts. </p>
<p>I say, try it for one year--see how much $$ she can get from the 3 summer jobs she'll have this summer, see how cheaply she can live at school. If it can't be done, then take a year off to get more $$ and return for the last year.</p>
<p>As the mother of three girls who do MT (none of which will likely ever be admitted to the likes of Tisch), I would be VERY hard pressed to have her pass up this unique opportunity. CONGRATS on your D's being placed into this pleasant, but difficult, quandary, and best of luck with your decision! ~b.</p>
<p>Eloise, I will give you my three cents and can say that I am swimming against the tide of some others who responded here. First, I agree with JEM about asking about this on the MT Forum or at least reading that forum. While I highly respect the wisdom of the many knowledgeable parents on the Parent Forum and their opinions on this notion if it is worth the debt, etc. (any parent truly can relate to that idea), most are not familiar with BFA programs or this field. Saying to just go to another school is not so easy. MT is not a BA major at barely any schools. There are also no graduate degrees in musical theater. There are many routes to go into this field and there are successful MT actors from all backgrounds. Some have not gone to ANY college. Some take training but not at college. Some do liberal arts degrees. But one of the very beneficial ways to prepare for this field is a BFA degree in MT. There are not too many of these. </p>
<p>My D who is going for this field and this degree, had a ready made college list, unlike my liberal arts D who was picking from thousands of schools. My Musical Theater D's college list was about 90% the same as every MT friend she has. The number of programs is very limited and the number of top programs is limited even more. Some programs take 8 kids a year even. Every program on my D's list accepted between 2-10% depending on the school (was worse odds than my other D had at elite colleges). The training in a BFA program is NOTHING like doing a BA. If someone is deeply passionate about this field and can think of doing nothing else, then this is the kind of degree program and training that is a good path, whereas a BA is appropriate to someone who wants to study several things and have options, etc. </p>
<p>Your D is not happy in a liberal arts program and apparently wants a BFA. I don't quite understand how you say she applied and you were unaware of her doing so because to get in, one must audition. I believe transfers must audition in NYC for Tisch. My D has a friend who just got in as a transfer from Cornell and had to audition in NYC. Maybe you were unaware she went to NYC to audition? In any case, ideally, the discussion of where you were willing to send her to college or at what cost would have happened before applying. I much prefer to hear of that happening. But it didn't apparently. I prefer parents to not let their kids apply if they are not able or willing to send them unless they are straight from the start and say, "you can apply but you must know ahead of time that unless we get X in FA, we won't be able to send you." But that could not happen if you did not know she applied and auditioned in NYC. Maybe she thought she would not get in and so this was unexpected. </p>
<p>With three in college, the need based aid offer sounds low if you are a school teacher but I am sure they took dad's income into account. You can tell your D what you are prepared to do for her and then she must decide what debt she can take on herself. The fact that she had a free ride for two years, and she did get some aid at NYU, means that her Tisch degree will not nearly cost what it normally would for four years. It will surely cost more than your D's current full ride but she is very unhappy there and so seems to want to make a change. Perhaps she could change to another college costing less than you will have to pay for NYU (as some others are suggesting) BUT we are talking apples to oranges. This is NOT like other parents on here must decide between this BA school or that BA school. We are talking a BA NOT in musical theater vs.BFA professional degree program (terminal degree in this field). They are not the same options AT ALL. If your D wants to go into this field and is not happy in a BA program, then it means a switch of some sort. If she is going for a BFA, it is not going to be a full ride. So, that decision of what she wants to do for the next two years must come first. IF she wants a BFA in MT, and she just got into one of the most well regarded programs, I'd go with it if you and she can figure a way to make it work. </p>
<p>My D goes to NYU/Tisch/CAP21 and just finished freshman year there. You haven't said too much about your D but if she is deeply passionate about this field and very unhappy at her BA in liberal arts school, then this is the opportunity for her to get an education and training in this field. It is not like she can just say, as others have here, I'll find another school next year to switch to. That will not easily happen and many of the top BFA programs don't necessarily take transfers, and surely not after junior year. Your D can get a summer job, share some of the debt with you, and so on. </p>
<p>In my view, a college education is not measured in "worth" by what income you make when you get out, as has come up on this thread as far as what an actor can make or will make. If your daughter is very set to go into this field, and she obviously has the talent, this is a good step for her to make. Perhaps she can just take training and forget college or some other path. But she obviously wanted a college BFA program as she sought one out. IF she is going THAT route, the time is now and this is her opportunity. She clearly could take another path and can consider a different way to pursue her passion. If it is the BFA route, then the door is open now and may not happen down the road. These programs are highly selective and even more so for transfers if they even take them. </p>
<p>Your d's college options and decision are specialized and not the same as what others weigh here between various BA options. We can all relate to debt but not everyone here fully is aware of the viable options for this field.</p>
<p>We have taken on a lot of debt to send our child to CAP21. It is very worth it to us. If you have questions about this program, I can try to help you. Congratulations on your D's accomplishment. I am sorry that this discussion did not take place sooner but it is what it is. A heart to heart is in order. Good luck with that. Please read the MT forum and get a sense of the issues discussed for those pursuing this field. Many parents there have been in your shoes and many students have been in your D's dancing shoes, LOL. Let me know what is decided and if I can be of assistance.
Susan</p>