Good activities for those who want graduate math degrees

Graduate School
1

<p>I'm interested in a math degree, particularly in applied math (I think). I've got two years left with my education and I've been wasting a lot of time on engineering stuff, so I'm trying to find good math things to get involved with.</p>

<p>I was hoping people could rate the following activities for someone who's interested in applied math:</p>

<p>1) good performance on the Putnam
2) solving problems in math journals (journals for undergraduates, recreational math journals, etc)
3) good performance on the Mathematical Contest in Modeling
4) anything else you think of</p>

2

<p>I'm pretty sure that participating in research blows away everything on that list.</p>

<p>And then publishing a paper blows away just doing research.</p>

3

<p>Hi, ender04. Interesting question.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>A 40+ on the Putnam might push you over the edge in terms of admissions for top-tier grad schools. A 60+ usually will get you in pretty much everywhere. Of course, getting this kind of score is really, really hard.</p></li>
<li><p>I sort of doubt this will help with admissions.</p></li>
<li><p>The MCM will open doors. Why? If you win, you get to publish a paper, though only in an undergraduate journal. Also, I was on one of the winning teams from the University of Washington this year, and I've already gotten a couple of job offers, one of them from Google.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>So, yeah. Ultimately, doing research and possibly publishing papers is the way to go. Have you considered doing an REU? There's an REU at the UW that you might be interested in --- the subject is inverse problems in electrical networks (probably a little more mathy than applied mathy).</p>

<p>And, it might go without saying, but keeping a decent GPA is always a good idea. I was talking to a prof who's on the admissions committee at the UW (which, by the way, is probably ~15--20) in grad school math. He said that if an applicant had less than a 3.7 average in junior- and senior-level math classes, that person would probably be cut in the first round. That's pretty scary; I didn't expect that the GPA standards would be so brutal.</p>

<p>PM me if you want more information about all this, and good luck :)</p>

4

<p>Of course doing very, very well on the Putnam or the MCM would help with graduate admissions. The thing is that generally people who are looking to boost their chances of getting into better grad schools aren't generally the types of people who are going to be honorable mentions on the Putnam or who are going to win the MCM (although I'm not familiar enough with the MCM to really say for sure). Most of the people who do extraordinarily well on the Putnam, for example, are either people who are already very good mathematicians and won't have trouble getting into great grad schools, or they're people who have been doing math competitions long enough to have the practice and experience to do well. I could certainly be wrong because I do not know the original poster, but someone who's looking for things to help them get into better graduate schools probably isn't going to break a 60 (top 50 or so scorers in the country).</p>

<p>Your best bet in increasing your odds of getting into a good graduate school is research, almost by definiton. Graduate schools want students who will be successful researchers, and in a time when a very large number of students are getting research experience as undergraduates, either through REUs or through other opportunities, it's hard to get into a top-ranked school (top 20, top 30, maybe even top-40) without some sort of research expereince. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but your credentials need to be absolutely excellent to get into one of these schools without prior research experience, when there are so many applicants out there who have research experience as well as stellar grades and recommendations. So if there's any way you can get involved in some sort of research experience, I'd say that's your best bet for increasing your odds of getting into a good grad school as well as getting some experience to let yourself know if research is really want you want to end up doing with the rest of your life.</p>

<p>It's also important to note that if you don't have a good relationship with at least one or two of your professors, you might want to invest some time in getting to know them better outside of the classroom (even if it's just in office hours), as letters of recommendation are very important parts of graduate admissions, and professors are more likely to write better letters for students they have a more personal relationship with than simply seeing you sit in the back of the classroom listening to their lecture.</p>

5

<p>i got into three top 20 math departments this spring (minnesota, maryland and rutgers; eventually rejected by chicago, michigan, wisconsin, illinois and penn) so ill throw in my thoughts on this.</p>

<p>getting good grades, doing well on the putnam (though probably a waste of time for you at this point), getting to really know a prof or two and getting involved in real research have already been addressed. a few more really important parts of an application:</p>

<p>your gre subject test score: this is an EXTREMELY important part of your application at a lot of schools (and is something you can prepare for with much more efficiency than the putnam) because a weak score (less than 75-80th percentile) will make it nearly impossible to get into any top 20 program, let alone a top one.</p>

<p>number of and grades in graduate-level classes: demonstrating the ability to do graduate-level mathematics (especially at a school with a solid graduate program) is perhaps the easiest way to convince a graduate program you can be successful at that level. obviously this is easier to accomplish for some students than others, but if possible, taking a good number of graduate classes will help.</p>

6

<p>Just a note about the GRE, maybe it's true about getting into top 20 programs, but I got admitted to two group I schools with a 49th percentile score (<a href="http://www.ams.org/employment/group_i.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ams.org/employment/group_i.html&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p>

<p>You didn't mention anything about OMG-I-<em>HAVE</em>-TO-GET-IN-TO-A-TOP-SCHOOL!!!!!11! but you are on College Confidential (then again, so am I)</p>

7

<p>ericatbucknell brings up a good point about graduate courses, as when I visited SUNY Stony Brook, I was told by the head of admissions that they generally don't admit students who don't have some prior graduate coursework. I'm sure there are exceptions (exceptionally strong students from schools without graduate courses, as well as people from Princeton where there the undergraduate courses are more than sufficient), but they seemed to make a big deal out of it.</p>

<p>Also, the GRE subject test score is weighted very differently at different schools. I was told by the graduate secretary at Courant that they generally like to see scores at least in the 70th percentile, but that number is not necessarily strict. I was told by the head of graduate admissions at Rutgers - New Brunswick that a score above 600 is okay, a score above 650 is good, and a score above 700 is great. I also heard (but have not confirmed) that they order applications by GRE subject test score in decreasing order and consider applicants in that order until all of the spots are filled.</p>

<p>Then again, I have friends who have scored below the 50th percentiles and were accepted at group I schools.</p>

<p>The thing to realize is that GRE subject test scores are important at some schools and not as important at other schools, so it's important to do your best but not to worry if you don't do exceedingly well. Doing very well on it will not make you stand out in anyone's eyes (as the top, top, top schools that don't like to see low GRE scores generally have enough applicants with stellar GRE scores that they can really just use them as a cut off), but doing poorly can simply be the result of being a bad test taker, so a lot of schools that aren't full of themselves are generally able to overlook a low score if the applicant has a stellar record otherwise.</p>

<p>I know that was a bit wordy, but hopefully my point was made clear. If you don't do very well on it, the absolute top schools might throw away your application; however, most other schools don't care if your scores are only mediocre, and many schools even overlook low scores.</p>

8

<p>Thanks for all the thoughtful responses.</p>

<p>Yeah, I realize that doing well on the Putnam is not a terribly likely thing for me at this point. I'd only have one pass at it. I'm pretty sure I could do reasonably well (better than the average tester), but that doesn't really sound like too positive a boost for an application, so I may as well not put in all the energy that'd be required for that.</p>

<p>It sounds like the MCM might be something worth doing, though, so I'll definitely look into that. My engineering work probably prepares me decently well for that contest, anyway.</p>

<p>I'm already planning on some graduate classes, and I'm pretty sure I'll do fairly well on the GRE subject test (I'm willing to study, and I'm really good at standardized tests). So far so good...</p>

<p>Research is a little tougher. Like I said, I've been "wasting" time doing engineering stuff (I'm actually an engineering major adding a math major at the last minute - oops). I've had tons of internships, done well in some design competitions, and have gotten one random publication in biology (although my work was largely in statistics) in a peer-reviewed but not top-rate publication.</p>

<p>Anyway, none of these experiences really prep me for good research positions in math. I considered some REUs, but the only ones that would take me with my pretty weak math curriculum (up to now) are not too stellar, so I thought I would be better this summer getting some coursework done so I can take some graduate level classes sort of soon. I expect that I'll maintain a good GPA and will be able to get into a good REU by next summer, and hopefully I'll be able to do some math-related research during the school year. </p>

<p>That said, do you think it would look favorable if I got involved in research in a more math-oriented part of engineering, for example control theory? I may be able to line a research position up in that field within the engineering department.</p>

<p>Thanks again for all of your advice... I'm afraid that I do want to go to a "top school," although I am seriously considering programs like the Control and Dynamical Systems PhD at Caltech, which isn't exactly applied math but probably fits my background better, anyway.</p>

<p>So, as a side topic, what do you all think of Caltech's CDS program? How about the University of Texas's Computational and Applied Mathematics program? Both of these programs seem (barely) within the scope of my current resume, and I feel that I can only improve my odds by taking advanced math classes.</p>

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<p>ender04 - The combination of you being in applied math (whereas I'm more familiar with pure math) and the other research activities you've been involved with (even though they aren't specifically math) may actually hold up for you. Most people who apply for PhD programs in pure math generally were math majors as undergraduates, but I would assume that people going into applied math programs generally come from more diverse backgrounds, and thus your internships, experience with design competitions and random biological statistics research might actually be a good combination for certain programs.</p>

<p>You said you have two years left for your education (making you a sophomore). This will probably give you the opportunity to take some slightly more advanced math courses next school year and then apply for REUs for the following summer. That would probably be a good combination both experience-wise and admissions-wise.</p>

<p>I don't know anything about the other programs you mentioned, but being a student at Brown, I know we have a great applied math department here. If you haven't looked at it yet, you should check it out at <a href="http://www.dam.brown.edu/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dam.brown.edu/&lt;/a> and see if it might be a good fit. I know pushing my own school is a bit tacky, but the students at Brown seem to be very happy, and I think that's enough of a plus for anyone to consider it.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your encouraging comments, emengee.</p>

<p>Brown is definitely among some of my dream schools (it has tremendous breadth of faculty research interests, which I think is a good positive). Also, I haven't met that many happy graduate students in general, so your comment definitely improves Brown's standing in my list, too.</p>

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<p>you can also try to "break the mold" of undergraduate research and try the obvious: find professors at your school with interesting research, and volunteer to help out. </p>

<p>most professors love free workers. and this provides an un-akward path to asking for a recommendation. and you also get a good chance at publication (provided they publish regularly).</p>

<p>also, you might want to aim for the Goldwater Scholarship. this is a prestigious way to indicate your preference for research and graduate school (applying junior year). the criteria involves a research proposal, recommendations, gpa, etc and provides 7500 for senior year.</p>

<p>finally, apply for every fellowship you can. If you have EXTERNAL funding, your chances at a top program increase greatly. Hardly any dept would turn down a free student. </p>

<p>In particular:
<a href="https://www.fastlane.nsf.gov/grfp/%5B/url%5D"&gt;https://www.fastlane.nsf.gov/grfp/&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.hertzfndn.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.hertzfndn.org/&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.krellinst.org/csgf/index.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.krellinst.org/csgf/index.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>are a few examples but there are others.</p>

12

<p>I plan to apply for grauate school in math. Will it be harder for me to get in with a math degree from Marlyand than with a math degree from U. chicago? I was accepted to both, but Maryland is paying me to go, so financially, its much better. Any help would be awesome.</p>

13

<p>It IS possible to get into a top grad school without research experience. I know someone (here at Caltech) whose only research experience in college was a project he did the summer before his senior year that he was so discusted with he didn't even write the experience on his applications. He's now at Berkeley.</p>

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<p>^That's good to hear, happyentropy. I'm a math major who probably won't have any research upon graduation :).</p>

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<p>darkrulerII - If you can afford it, I'd go with U Chicago. Prestige means a lot in academia.</p>

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<p>On publishing papers:</p>

<p>Is any publication worth mentioning in an application to grad school?</p>

<p>I was in a math REU last summer, and our group ended up publishing, but the end result was a three-page paper with 7 coauthors. My own contribution to the final product was minimal; we all wrote sizable chunks of the REU report, but when it was distilled to three pages, some parts only got a passing mention. </p>

<p>But, it <em>was</em> a publication on which my name appears. Is it worth mentioning anyways?</p>

17

<p>Er, holomorph, this probably would have been a good new thread (would've probably gotten a good amount of attention).</p>

<p>For what it's worth, I think that your experience is pretty typical for an undergrad publication, and I definitely think it should appear prominently on your resume. On the collaboration: there are plenty of profs who list on their CV publications even when their name is right in the middle of a seven-name list. A lot of times they'll go ahead and bold their name to make sure it stands out!</p>

<p>Your concern that you didn't contribute that much to the publication may be a little more serious, but so long as you're honest in explaining the publication wherever you talk about it (personal statement, interview, wherever), I think you'll be pretty golden.</p>