Good college/university crossed with an opportunity to fence

College Search & Selection
1

Wondering if anyone has any knowledge/experience with these colleges and their fencing teams.

Brief bio of my daughter: 3.9 UW GPA, 33 ACT, 4 years swim (2 varsity), 4 years marching band (2 as Drum Major), vigorous class schedule (12-13 APs, which is on the high end for her school; 4 years each of two different foreign languages). She’s been fencing foil for 4.5 years, epee for 2 years - unranked in both. Epee is her preferred weapon, and probably does suit her style more. Could report more common app type things, but don’t want to bog this post down with too much info.

She is looking to do pre-med (neuroscience or biology major with a world language minor) and would like to attempt to walk on to a fencing team.

Schools she is looking at:
Lawrence University
Tufts University
Lafayette College
Brandeis University
Haverford College
Brown University (well aware this would be a reach school)

From what I have gleaned online, Brown probably is the toughest to get into and toughest to make the fencing team. Anyone know how difficult some of the other teams are to walk on to? Should she email any coaches now, or wait to see if she is admitted first as some of these are pretty selective schools?

Thank you for any assistance.

2

You may want to read through this http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/athletic-recruits/1902048-the-only-college-fencing-recruiting-thread-you-need-to-read-p1.html

FWIW my D recently graduated from Lafayette College and absolutely loved it. She has a friend who fenced and was an engineering major so that combination was do-able.

3

Vassar–a friend’s daughter fences there and loves it.

4

Can’t speak for fencing specifically, but most of the schools on the list are NCAA Division III institutions, which are generally pretty open to walk-ons.
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Brown and Lafayette compete in NCAA Division I, so they are more serious about athletics. However, Lafayette is very small for a DI school; they are basically a liberal arts college that offers athletic scholarships in some of the higher-profile sports. They do not offer athletic scholarships in fencing, so I suspect that the Lafayette fencing program, while technically DI, is actually not much different from many small-school DIII programs.

My guess is that a 33 ACT gives your D credibility as a prospective applicant at any of these schools. I think it would be OK for her to email the coaches and ask if participation on the fencing team as a walk-on is an option. She should indicate that she is not trying to be recruited as a fencer, or seeking a tip in admissions.

5

@corbett Although I am not positive, someone on CC (I couldn’t find the old post) told me that Lafayette’s fencing team is at a club level, not D1. Of course the OP should check that the level of the fencing team is suited to her needs.

6

According to the NCAA’s Sport Sponsorship database, Lafayette College does have an NCAA Division I fencing program. However, there is one unusual thing about it: other NCAA fencing programs are either “Men’s Fencing” or “Women’s Fencing”, but Lafayette officially has “Mixed Fencing”. Not sure about the significance of this distinction. Look it up here:

http://web1.ncaa.org/onlineDir/exec2/sponsorship

Lawrence, Tufts, Brandeis, Haverford, and Vassar are all classified as Division III Women’s Fencing programs by NCAA. Brown is NCAA DI Women’s Fencing. All of these schools have corresponding NCAA Men’s Fencing programs, except Tufts. At Tufts, Men’s Fencing is club level, not DIII.

7

ask in the athletic recruiting section

8

@happy1 Yes, that thread is chock full of information. Thanks.
@Dustyfeathers I’ll have my D take a look at Vassar. Not sure how that one slipped through the cracks.
@fleishmo6 I was hesitant to put this thread there as my D is not looking to be recruited, and most likely does not have enough tournament experience to be recruited.

@Corbett here is all I can find about “mixed” teams, this was found at collegeandsportslaw:
“A mixed team is a varsity intercollegiate sports team on which at least one individual of each gender competes. A mixed team shall be counted as one team. NCAA rules state that a male participating in competition on a female team makes the team a “mixed team.” Such a team is ineligible for a women’s NCAA championship but is eligible for a men’s NCAA championship. However, when a female competes on a men’s team, the team remains eligible for a men’s NCAA championship. Once a team is classified as a mixed team, it retains that status through the remainder of the academic year without exception.”
So I suppose this means a female can compete at Lafayette, just no opportunity for “post-season” competition unless she competes against the men.

9

@stencils - can you add what you know about fencing at Lafayette for the OP?

10

the athletic site parents will know all aspects of the different colleges
those students who are recruited as well as walk on

11

We just went through this process with my son - He’s an unranked C-rated fencer who will fence at Haverford next year,

He put together a one page academic and fencing resume and sent it out to the coaches along with rec from his club coach, and then met with some of the coaches at Summer Nationals and other NAC’s and made some college visits.

We looked online at the college rosters and cross-checked the foilist with Askfred to see where he was a comparable fencer.

The ones on your list we visited were:

Haverford - My son liked their fencing room, the coach and the guys on the team, and, of course the college.

Brown - Coach was sort of aloof - looked like they practiced on a multipurpose gym floor - not so good IMO. My D is a junior there and loves the University, but she’s not a fencer.

Lafayette - the coach set up a meeting for us with a team member (coach was out of town). The guy bailed on us, but we toured the college and gym. From what we gathered there was no exclusive designated fencing room.

Lawrence - S met with the coach (I think he is new) at a tournament, but did not visit. Lawrence does have a free application, minimal essay, and nonbinding Early Action, so you can get a December decision.

Other schools we visited where we felt he could have fenced were;

UNC Chapel Hill - great facilities and DI athletic treatment (special perks) and a large roster.

Air Force Academy - Father-like coach. Team, coach and practice provides some respite from military rigor.

Johns Hopkins - Nice fencing facility.

Stevens Institute of Technology - Very nice coach from Northwestern. School sits on a river bluff overlooking Manhattan. Good Co-op program and job placement.

Hope this helps

12

By the way, there are so few NCAA fencing teams, that they all compete against each other regardless of Division. You can fence at a D3 school and still compete in the overall NCAA championship.

13

In practice, it doesn’t seem to work that way. Lafayette treats Men’s Fencing and Women’s Fencing as separate teams, and the men and women appear to compete separately in post-season fencing events, such as the NCAA Mid-Atlantic/South Regional. In the 2015 Regional, for example, a Lafayette fencer placed 21st in Women’s Epee:
http://www.escrimeresults.com/ncaa/MAS/2015/FTEvent327683.htm

In other words, there doesn’t seem to be any obvious difference between the Lafayette Men’s/Women’s Fencing Teams and anyone else’s Men’s/Women’s Fencing Teams, even though NCAA officially classifies Lafayette’s program as “Mixed”.

14

@saharafrog My daughter is a high school senior and plans to continue fencing in college. Here’s what I can tell you about the fencing at some of the schools in the list. My knowledge is more in women’s foil, but generally the same is probably true for Epee.

Brown - If she can get in, then she might be able to walk on, it really depends on his current squad strength. I don’t think the Brown coach gets enough recruitment slot to fill his squad, so has to rely on walk-ons.

Tufts - Don’t know as much about this squad, but there was an article floating around a year or so ago written by a Tufts fencer for their school paper complaining about the level of support the squad gets from the school.

Lafayette - Even though it’s Div 1, the school doesn’t fund fencing for scholarships, and coach doesn’t actively recruit and relies on walk-ons. The men’s squad is usually complete, but they don’t have a large enough number of women to field a full contingent of 3 in each weapon, so the women don’t compete as much. But I’ve heard those that do fence there enjoy it. Your daughter could likely walk on the team and fence immediately. Lafayette is a great school.

Brandeis - one of the top Div 3 teams, and stronger than some Div 1 and Div 2 teams. The coach actively recruits, and (at least in women’s foil), the top fencers are As, Bs, and Cs. The school supports the program very well with travel and facilities. Really a top-notch program, and Coach Shipman is great.

Vassar (since it was mentioned) - Another pretty strong Div3 fencing squad, but I think there’s a fair number of E’s and Unrated fencers there, so your daughter could probably walk on. Coach Gillman is a nice guy and is well liked.

Haverford and Lawrence: These weren’t schools my DD was considering, so I don’t know about these two.

Here’s what I’d suggest… If she has already applied (or plans to) for Brandeis, Brown, Vassar, (and perhaps Tufts), send the coaches an email. Include your daughters academic stats and a little about her level of fencing experience. She may want to let them know she’s not necessarily looking for admissions support or recruiting, but was wondering if she was accepted, would she have a chance to be a walk-on based on their current squad in women’s epee and current recruits.

For Haverford and Lawrence (and any other fencing school really), look at the current roster of the squad, and then look up those fencers on askfred.net (send me a message if you don’t know how to do this). Askfred.net has the fencing results for almost every tournament in the US. You’ll be able to figure out the ratings and experience level of current fencers on the squad, to see if your daughter might fit in.

Finally, I’ll throw out a couple of more good schools where an unrated fencer could likely walk on: Wellesley and Drew (the Drew coach is outstanding, the neuroscience program is good, and the fencing team has a great vibe is getting better very fast).

Don’t be shy about posting in the Fencing Recruiting thread either. There are some great parents that follow the thread who have/had collegiate fencers at different levels and can offer a lot of great advice.

15

And to @happy1 's comment about Lafayette being a club team, it’s probably me that led to that confusion (sorry happy1!). I think what I said is that I had heard that the fencing team is pretty casual and someone described it as being “kind of like a club team” to me. That doesn’t mean it’s not going to be a great experience, especially for someone looking to walk-on.

16

@stencils – No problem at all. I’m not familiar with fencing and probably just misunderstood. In any event, it led to great information for the OP which is what CC should be all about.

17

It looks @arwarw replied while I was typing my response. Great feedback from arwarw on a nice mix of schools as well!

18

@Corbett , @arwarw , and @stencils
Thank you for all the additional information. This is very much what I was hoping to find when posting here.

And thank you @happy1 for pulling stencils into the discussion.

Lafayette seems to be one to keep on the list, so I won’t let that mixed status scare us. I’ll look into Drew, like Vassar this was not one we had researched. As for Wellesley, it looks like a great school, and my D’s coach fenced there, but the all women aspect is a no go for my D. We’ve mentioned Wellesley a few times now and it always gets shot down.

Thank you again.

19

@saharafrog Don’t feel bad about Wellesley. My D shot it down too, even with the ability to take MIT classes!

20

At Haverford she would absolutely be able to walk on.