Good computer science/math schools that give need based financial aid.

Parents Forum
41

UChicago, MIT and Caltech would be three excellent schools to add to the “Reach” category. It is my understanding that all three offer excellent need-based aid. UChicago also offers some merit, but it’s my understanding that it is difficult to get (given the caliber of the students there, not surprising; but don’t quote me, read up on it).

Here’s a little bit about each one:

MIT - Intense work hard/play hard atmosphere. Obviously, they are top-shelf in the STEM areas but they are also very good in such non-STEM areas as English and Economics. (and their reputation for non-STEM quality seems to be growing).

Caltech - Caltech is perhaps even a little bit more intense than MIT. As good as MIT in STEM areas, Caltech’s course catalog in other areas is not as developed as MIT’s. Caltech has quite a small student body. The Jet Propulsion Lab is on Caltech’s campus, I believe.

UChicago - UChicago is top-notch in probably (?) every major they offer, much like MIT. This school is known for its highly intellectual “life of the mind” academic atmosphere. The students work very hard, but they don’t seem to mind generally: this intensity drew them to UChicago. Also of note is the fact that Chicago’s curriculum is built around a core.

Similarities among the schools:

  • They are all academically intense – hard. If your daughter wants to be challenged, these are three of the best schools to do it.
  • They are all located in large metropolitan areas, with plenty to do and see.

Regarding Williams, that school is really outstanding for those who don’t mind its location. They offer tutorials, literally 1-on-1 learning with professors. (I’m not sure – are those even technically “classes” since only two are present?) It’s in the middle of nowhere, but plenty of people have said that perhaps the most intimate student-prof interaction happens regularly here. Definitely worth looking into if you want to consider LACs.

Swarthmore too – very intellectual, like UChicago, but obviously suburban and a much smaller school. Swat is quite a bit more liberal than most of the schools mentioned thus far (which may not be an issue; figured I’d mention it).

As for matches, here are some ideas:

  • Case Western (mentioned upthread)
  • Pepperdine
  • U of Miami (FL)
  • GWU
  • SMU
  • Villanova
  • Boston U
  • Fordham
  • Mid-range OOS public schools (if affordable) and some in-state publics, depending on where you are.
  • Mid-range LACs -- ranked roughly 30-75 on the USNews LAC ranking. Check admit % and test score/GPA ranges to verify Match status.

Run the NPC on all schools to get a sense of what you would be expected to pay. Do not apply to unaffordable schools, obviously – you don’t want her being admitted to a school she really likes but can’t afford without taking on a lot of debt.

42

@thumper1, we are in suburbs of washinton DC. She is in 10th grade. 3.95 GPA including one AP in 9th (9th and mid year 10th )Two more APs this year in 10th.

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English is not my mother tongue, so please excuse spelling and grammar.

44

@prezbucky bucky thanks for the info

45

She also plays sports but at a club sports level. She is heavily involved in multiple non math science clubs and holds leadership position according to her grade level.

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You are welcome!

47

URochester is one school worth a serious look for matches.

That doesn’t necessarily indicate anything about the CS department concerned.

Especially considering any solid CS program would impart enough programming/technical skills and learning capabilities that most CS students should be able to pick up those skills much more quickly through courses at a local ccollege or more often, by teaching themselves.

Also, in colleges which do offer such applied computing courses, they’re often not counted as part of the CS major because they’re considered “too easy/elementary” and not something “real CS majors” need to take to learn such skills.

That was the case with such courses at my LAC(Oberlin)* and several other colleges/universities I knew of.

  • The intro applied computing course at my LAC was mainly targeted for non-CS majors and CS majors who already took the intro sequence for majors were strongly discouraged from taking that class.

Wasn’t too much of a surprise as most CS majors/hardcore minors regarded those courses as “a joke”. Especially considering while it did cover some basic programming skills, the coverage was only equivalent to the first 2-3 weeks of the first intro course for bona-fide CS majors/hardcore minors**.

I took the intro sequence for CS majors and when an older college classmate took the intro applied computing course in question and actually struggled with it, I was shocked as the course was designed so even non-majors with no-techie experience/inclinations who put in some effort should do fine without too much trouble. His syllabus was a complete cakewalk compared to the first CS for majors intro course I took.

** Oberlin had a CS minor for those oriented toward applied computing, but it ended up getting canceled some years after I graduated.

48

Consider schools strong in math as well as computer science. From her resume to date she may want many math courses along with the CS. Many public flagship U’s are the strongest schools in CS but finances could be a problem for her. This is a subject for her (notice I said her, not you- she needs to take charge) to discuss with her HS guidance counselor. Look at top twenty or so schools for their grad programs in math and computer science for ideas. Then check on financial aid mechanisms. as an undergrad she will want to have grad level courses available.

Also consider that she may change her major once she is in college and widens her world. It could be that your public U’s in the DC area is her best choice. Many top and gifted students can’t afford to go OOS and are in Honors programs in their home state.

49

While there’s some good point to this, this bit of advice should be coupled with a note of caution to check each CS department carefully as one common complaint I’ve kept hearing from some students is that a strong math department…especially if their strengths are in pure/theoretical math is that the corresponding CS department may be too theoretically oriented for most who aren’t planning to continue in grad school in the areas of pure math or related CS topics/areas.

Also, some universities with topflight math programs do not necessarily have CS programs on the same topflight level due to funding and/or institutional prioritization issues. Harvard is one good case as their CS department is respectable, but not in the correspondingly tippytop league as their math department…especially pure/theoretical math.

If a student was admitted to CMU, Georgia Tech, UIUC, UMich, Princeton, Cornell, or Columbia, and Harvard and FA/funding issues are all equal…most aspiring CS majors…especially the hardcore ones I knew in HS and in the workplace would overwhelmingly choose the former schools over the latter as their CS departments have been considered much stronger…and for a longer period of time.

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I’m not sure why you’ve removed Harvard or Yale from the list - they’re often the most generous in doling out financial aid. Their CS departments might not be as big as MIT’s or CMU’s, but I’ve never seen any undergrad take more than 50% of courses on offer at either school, not to mention in their top-10 math/science/economics departments.

The biggest advantage of going to Harvard or Yale is the peer network - Facebook, Microsoft, Pinterest, Stack Overflow, MongoDB and Electronic Arts are just some of the successful tech companies founded by former H/Y students.The data also shows that Harvard or Yale college alums are disproportionately represented in the top 50 CS departments (http://cs.brown.edu/people/alexpap/faculty_dataset.html) - especially if you take into the fact that the number of CS majors per year is less than half that of other schools on the list like Stanford, CMU or Georgia Tech.

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@lakemath1234 , you should also look at Vanderbilt and Rose Hulman. Both schools are quite generous with scholarships.

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Hi @lakemath1234:
For your D’s safety schools, I think you should definitely consider either U-Md or UVa/VA Tech, (or possibly even GMU/JMU Honors depending on whether you are Md or Va resident.) I don’t know which school has highest ranked math/CS departments, but this letter written by a young woman who wound up at U-Md Honors program has stuck with me:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/grade-point/wp/2016/07/22/five-lessons-i-learned-the-hard-way-from-the-college-application-process/?client=ms-android-verizon.com/amphtml/news/grade-point/wp/2016/07/22/five-lessons-i-learned-the-hard-way-from-the-college-application-process/?client=ms-android-verizon

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Somebody above mentioned Brown. When my niece graduated from Brown about 15 years ago their CS students were recruited very intensively. She took a job at Microsoft (MSFT) and now holds a major position as a director of program management.

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I’m not going to address the reaches - they are all well known. I know CS kids from Harvard have no problem with job placement FWIW

If you are in the Maryland suburbs U of Md has a highly regarded CS program. I know less about the VA options. Generally speaking if you are chasing merit aid all the smaller tech schools need more women and will court them - most of the ones I know have been mentioned - RPI, WPI, Rose-Hulman, RIT, U of Rochester, Harvey Mudd (but it’s not easy to get into - my kid got waitlisted there even though he was accepted by Harvard and Carnegie Mellon CS). I think even reachy Caltech may give an edge to females (it’s quirky and I highly recommend a visit).

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Even though her major achievements are in math and science, past summer she has done research work in artificial intelligence at Stanford University.

She also has excelled in History and English also and is very active in politics from last four years. You are right that one can always change their major once they are in school.

Unfortunately admission is crap shoot and no guarantees. Therefore we are looking for various options at this point. Suggestions are welcome as provide valuable informations.

56

@Mathmom

When I took H and Y out, it is because they are super reach for anyone. We don not want to be super reach heavy.

We are looking more for ideas regarding safety school and some match schools s as wants to advice kid to work her best and be prepared for anything. And obliviously looking at what we can afford.

57

3 schools I know most intimitely:

Yale: don’t rule it out. My Yale roommate majored in CS and is a department manager at Dell now. And the department is way stronger now than it was in 84, our year. Worth considering for CS and the wealth of other opportunities offered on its campus.

CMU: top notch as everyone knows. My son got a decent FA offer and is very happy there, though he never worked so hard.

URoch: excellent school and they just broke ground on a new data sciences building. (google Goergen Institute) Their commitment to CS is strong.

58

Net price calculator - Home equity is counted in some school while not in other super reach schools

I did a net price calculation and found as follows:

  1. Stanford is asking house home equity values whereas HYP is not taking home equity into considerations. Stanford including travel is 2000 extra. Other than that HYP figures are in similar dollar Ball Park.
  2. Any contribution to 401 is also included in need based calculations. Thus our income will go up more as it is the gross income not taxable income. Last time our gross income was way less than at present.

I remember when few years ago we saw our dollars figure between HYP for our two kids. Harvard gave extra $1500 and $2000 dollars for both kids. We did not apply to Stanford.

I am going to run similar calculation for other schools as it is an eye opener.

59

Williams is even more $2000 above stanford. Oh wow beacuse of inclusion of returement plans and home equity.

I am so glad that I am asking these questions now. We have to include some school now and put other schools out on the back burner. Darn it :frowning:

60

Cornell is $7000 more than Stanford. :frowning: :frowning: