Sorry, it sounds like the Honors program wasn’t a good fit for what your D was looking for. I know many kids who’ve participated / are participating in the honors and scholars programs there and have had very positive experiences. And no, the living-learning participants don’t talk about classes after classes - they have friends from all across campus and lead a normal college life.
I think some of the comments on this thread are important to hear. Honors college isn’t for everyone. Some students feel that the increased rigor and class requirements are detrimental to their GPAs. Some don’t want to reside in a living/learning community. Some don’t feel that there is value added by research requirements. Some don’t want to take “extra” classes. Some feel that there is too much pressure to maintain the minimum GPA to remain in honors.
Also, many students who start in honors don’t stay in the program (see my first paragraph). At Purdue, last year’s honors cohort was the largest graduating class since its inception 10 years ago. Less than 40% of the students who started in honors went through the 4 year program and graduated with honors. The honors cohort was less than 400 students out of a graduating class of roughly 10,000. (Purdue offers honors to 10% of the incoming class every year).
For my student, the pros well outweighed the cons, but like college selection, it’s a very individual decision.
You need to get the book “Inside Honors 2020-21 Ratings and Reviews of 40 Public University Honors Programs.” By John Willingham. He does a deep dive into some of the data you are interested in. I found the book very helpful.
Available on Amazon for $16
The author also runs this website, which might be helpful to OP:
In our experience, I think we are searching more for honors programs that provide mentorship and the obligation to produce original research under the mentorship of a professor in your major. I also have learned that “honors courses” vary widely, and yes, satisfaction with any of these programs is heavily dependent on the preferences of individual kids. Another factor is the size of the program, 60 kids per year is a very different feel than 30% of the entire university.
Research is an important factor for my kid, both individually and ability to work in the faculty led labs, because successful grad school admissions in her field require such demonstrated interest. Honors class versions of classes you have to take anyway, but smaller and more Socratic, may be of use more than some of the honors programs that have course lists that are filled with extensive offerings I would consider fluff. As a humanities kid, she’s also more drawn to offerings in the classics, great texts and philosophy.
I found this podcast episode on the topic pretty interesting: College Admissions with Mark and Anna: Seizing Opportunities at Honors Programs and Colleges on Apple Podcasts
My oldest went to Clemson and was in Honors College for first 2 years. She took advantage of the brand new dorm, the early registration for classes, the smaller class sections etc. However she did not want to write the thesis required for Honors Graduation.
My younger was admitted to Miami of Ohio Honors but she had a friend from her travel softball team she wanted to room with and in Honors dorms does not permit non honors students to room with honors students so she did not enroll in the Honor College. As @momofboiler1 suggests it is something that is individual to each student.
One thing to dig deeper into is how the honors cohort is broken out. For example, at Purdue, within the honors college, there is a special engineering scholars cohort, which makes honors college even smaller. I believe UMD does something similar in terms of breaking out students by major/interests.
IMO, the mentorships and emphasis on student/professor relationships was one of the most positive aspects of honors college. My D was on a first name basis with the dean, had weekly dinners with her honors seminar prof, knew profs’ families and kids, worked for two honors profs tutoring their kids, and each floor had an honor prof “parent” who hosted all kinds of activities. She got her first summer internship and her co-op (which led to her full time career) because of honors college.
A kid does not need to be in an Honors program to produce “original research” as you put it (what’s the alternative-- plagiarized research?
Particularly in the humanities where there isn’t likely to be a cap on how many students a professor can work with at any time (there isn’t lab space or resources to allocate) I would not worry about this AT ALL.
And I’m not sure Honors will matter. It will depend by school.
First off, most anyone can do research - one has to ask. My kid at Charleston isn’t doing research but has I think 3 advisors and two mentors - but again, she’s in a specific program. She’s not interested in research. It’s offered and my son had many friends at Bama dong it - email after email comes out about it. @Andygp is pursuing what may be a similar path - well his student is - as they are seeking a PhD in biochem I think. I know he looked at many LACs and large schools and may have input to your question.
it might be that a school like Wooster - forgetting Honors - is right for your kid. They are known for exactly this and rate highly - they always show a stat where they and Princeton are always rated tops.
I’m not sure your original post really asked the right question to get to the answer your most recent post asked. And I’m not sure that Honors is necessary to get to what you are now asking. It could be - but it may not be necessary.
Mentored Research - The College of Wooster The College of Wooster
We didn’t really explore honors colleges within large Universities as an alternative to LAC but happy to answer any questions about research opportunities at LACs vs large research Universities for undergraduates.
Just throwing this school out for you - they have two campuses. Annapolis and Santa Fe. Not sure about research but it hits other desires so maybe worth researching. I’m not sure it’s right but you might look at FAU Wilkes too.
Look for schools that have named scholar programs that require research. Alabama has Randal Research Scholars etc.
But, a kid can do research without being in honors college. I did it when dinos roamed the planet.
I think that Ohio University’s Honors Tutorial College makes even more sense here. Here is an article I found discussing the program and how it emphasizes the relationship between the student and the Tutor. Ohio University Honors Tutorial College Acceptance Rate
My daughter applied for Clemson honors after her first semester, so she wasn’t in the honors dorm (but she was in CUBS which she felt was beneficial), she’s a junior and I haven’t asked about her thesis, but she does feel it’s a good program.
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