<p>Anyone know what the good law colleges are.</p>
<p>like how good?
First tier: Harvard, Yale, Columbia, NYU, Stanford, UChicago, Michigan, etc.
Second tier: George Washington, Notre Dame, UC other than Berkeley and LA, other state schools,Villanova, Brooklyn Law School, etc.
Third/fourth: don't know</p>
<p>You mean good Law Schools, not Law Colleges right? I mean, the term College usually indicates undergraduate education...and Law is a graduate degree.</p>
<p>At any rate, below is a list of top 10 Law schools and then, of merely "good" law schools (top 30 but not top 10):</p>
<p>TOP 10 LAW SCHOOLS:
Columbia University
Harvard University
New York University
Stanford University
University of California-Berkeley
University of Chicago
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Pennsylvania
University of Virginia
Yale University </p>
<p>The 6 schools below also make a very strong case for top 10 consideration:
Cornell University
Duke University
Georgetown University
Northwestern University
University of California-Los Angeles
University of Texas-Austin </p>
<p>TOP 30 BUT NOT TOP 10 LAW SCHOOLS:
Boston College
Boston University
College of William and Mary
Emory University
Fordham University
George Washington Univertsity
University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign
University of Iowa
University of Minnesota-Twin Cities
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
University of Notre Dame
University of Southern California
University of Washington
Vanderbilt University
Washington and Lee University
Washington University-St Louis</p>
<p>I don't disagree with the above rankings as such, but I don't think this breaks them down in the most relevant way. Generally, people think of the top 14 schools as "national" schools with great employment prospects anywhere. Beyond that, numerical rankings are largely irrelvant, as the schools are more "regional," with a strong reputation in their region but little ability to place outside of it (except for students in the very, very top of the class). If you can't get into one of the top 14, it makes more sense to pick the best school in the city where you want to practice rather than rely on the rankings; Iowa over Fordham makes no sense if you want to work in NYC, for example. Additionally, within the top 14, we usually think of Harvard/Yale/Stanford (typically listed in this order even though Yale is unanimously considered number one) as one tier, then Columbia/Chicago/NYU as the next and then the rest (Penn, Michigan, UVa, Duke, Cornell, Northwestern, Boalt and Georgetown).</p>
<p>Is there a huge difference btwn say a tier 1 school (HYS) and a tier 1C school (UVA, DUKE, etc)</p>
<p>For most people, no, there isn't a big difference. But if you want to go into academia, or clerk for the Supreme Court, then it could make a significant difference for you.</p>
<p>Americanski, Michigan (surprise, I know) is generally considered on par with Chicago, Columbia and NYU...although I think even within that gropup, Chicago is slightly better than the other three.</p>
<p>Fatjoe, there is very little difference between the top 3 and the rest in tier I.</p>
<p>What about Wake Forest, and BYU? They didn't make the list, but according to <a href="http://www.lsat.org%5B/url%5D">www.lsat.org</a> they are both right up there, and even harder to get into than a handful of the schools you listed.</p>
<p>311Griff, never confuse selectivity with quality. Selectivity is a factor of popularity, which often has nothing to do with quality. For example, Fordham is as selective as Cornell and Duke Law Schools. </p>
<p>Fordham:
Mid 50% LSAT: 163-167
Mid 50% GPA: 3.4-3.8
Acceptance Rate: 19%</p>
<p>Cornell:
Mid 50% LSAT: 164-168
Mid 50% GPA: 3.4-3.8
Acceptance Rate: 19%</p>
<p>Duke:
Mid 50% LSAT: 162-169
Mid 50% GPA: 3.4-3.8
Acceptance Rate: 21%</p>
<p>Although Fordham is a fine Law school, it is generally not considered to be in the same league as Duke or Cornell. </p>
<p>This said, Wake and BYU are certainly very good and could easily make my top 30 list.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Americanski, Michigan (surprise, I know) is generally considered on par with Chicago, Columbia and NYU...although I think even within that gropup, Chicago is slightly better than the other three.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Several decades ago, yes, Michigan would have been considered on par with those three (in fact, better than any of them, especially NYU), but not at this point. Michigan is almost universally seen as a step below CCN and more comparable to Penn and UVa.</p>
<p>Very few people would say that Chicago is appreciably better than any of the three. Probably only for clerkship placement or possibly academia. Certainly not for the quality of the student body overall. USNews has it ranked last of the three.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What about Wake Forest, and BYU?
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</p>
<p>Wake is fine if you want to practice in North Carolina or that area, while BYU is great for Utah. But there's really no point in comparing them, because they're both regional schools in completely different regions. Beyond the top 14, the precise rankings are largely irrelevant.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Although Fordham is a fine Law school, it is generally not considered to be in the same league as Duke or Cornell.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Fordham is an anomaly because it places so much better in NYC than its ranking would suggest and because there are more students with good numbers who want to be in NYC than there are spaces at the top 14. Its weak national reputation comes in large part from, for one thing, the university as a whole isn't very prestigious and also from the fact that Fordham sends 85+% of its graduates to NYC firms.</p>
<p>I beg to differ Americanski. I agree that Michigan has declined a little over the years. In the 50s and 60s, Michigan was considered one of the top 2 or 3 Law schools in the nation. Since then, it has dropped a notch. However, most Law firms, academics and judges still rate Michigan as one of the top 6 or 7 Law schools in the nation. </p>
<p>According to the USNWR peer assessment score, Michigan receives a score of 4.5/5.0, tied in 6th place with NYU. </p>
<p>According to the USNWR assessment score according to Lawyers and Judges, Michigan receives a score of 4.6/5.0, tied in 5th place with Columbia and UVA. </p>
<p>Average reputation score for Michigan according to Academe and corporate world is 4.55, good for 6th place, behind Chicago and Clumbia, both of which have an averahe score of 4.65 and ahead NYU and UVA, which get an average score of 4.45. </p>
<p>In terms of placement, Michigan is generally ranked 5th or 6th in the nation. </p>
<p>At any rate, it doesn't really matter. I see no difference at that level, and your comparing Michigan to Penn and UVA is an honor since two Law schools are formidable in their own right.</p>
<p>
[quote]
BYU is great for Utah.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Did you research this? Or are you just talking from your own limited point of view?</p>
<p>More BYU law graduates are employed outside of Utah than in Utah...which is NOT the case for UNC-CH, UCB, or NYU...where most of their graduates stay in the state. If BYU is only good for Utah, then why do more graduates (55% of them) work outside of Utah?</p>
<p>Because they don't want to work in Utah. Not because they can't. It may surprise you to learn that Salt Lake City is actually not the legal capital of America. It's not like NYU grads are staying in-state because they don't have other options.</p>
<p>In any event, how many other schools do you think send 40+% of their grads to Utah? BYU is much stronger there than anywhere else.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Because they don't want to work in Utah. Not because they can't.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How do you know this? And how does this relate to my point? I didn't say anything about why the graduates leave Utah, or whether they can or can't work there... I was just saying that if BYU is a law school specifically for Utah, as you posted earlier, then why do more graduates leave Utah (and are employed, recruited to other states)? The University of Utah Law School keeps a lot more of its graduates in Utah (~79%) and the surrounding intermountain region than BYU does.</p>
<p>As far as BYU being stronger in Utah than anywhere else? Well that's true of NYU for NY, UCB for California, and UNC-CH for North Carolina. This may surprise you, but usually a school is stronger in the state of its location than anywhere else...that's a no brainer.</p>
<p>I didn't say it was "a law school specifically for Utah," I said that it was great for Utah, which it is, since it's the best school in the state and has a strong alumni base there.</p>
<p>what are your chances of getting into a school if ur LSATs fall in the lower portion of the mid 50% range of a school but ur GPA is in the 99.999999999999 percentile</p>
<p>i.e. Duke's 25% is 162.. Say i had a 162 LSat with a 4.0 GPA.. would i be considered a lock? a good chance? some chance? little chance? No chance?</p>
<p>You said, and I quote:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Wake is fine if you want to practice in North Carolina or that area, while BYU is great for Utah.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think this implies that BYU is great for "practicing" in Utah...however, most of their students don't "practice" in Utah...so don't imply that a person choosing to go to BYU for law studies is somehow limited/only considered/recruited to "practice" in Utah or the "surrounding areas", because it's simply not the case.</p>
<p>In fact, Wake Forest has less % of graduates working in North Carolina than UNC-CH, so you should re-phrase that and say "UNC is fine if you want to practice in North Carolina".</p>
<p>Fatjoe, it would depend on many things. Did you graduate from a top university with a 4.0? Did you take tough classes? I mean, if you graduate in Economics from the University of Chicago with a 4.0, then yes, I'd say your chances at Duke would be reasonable, although still not good. Your essays will also be important. </p>
<p>As a rule of thumb, if you really want to gedt into a top 10 Law school, you really want an LSAT that's in the upper 160s...like a 167 or 168.</p>
<p>Don't top schools weigh the LSAT heavier than the GPA, but the GPA is still part of the equation (obviously).</p>
<p>I think so 311griff. That's why I say that top law schools generally look for LSATs in the 167+ range. But like I said, a 4.0 from a school like Chicago will also go a long way.</p>