<p>DD has a list! Her strategy (not mine but I'm supporting her) is to attend the best possible college for fast track career in international business. Whatever that is. She has stuck with this for some time and spent a term abroad to prove her intent. I think she will follow through.</p>
<p>*Black female, CA private school
*top 20% at school that sends 20% to top schools, public for 9th grade
*superscore: 800/760/740
*SAT II 800/800/710 Spanish, mathII, bio
*average ECs but great summer jobs in her intended field</p>
<p>Current list in current order:</p>
<p>Wharton
Duke (legacy)
Dartmouth
Brown
Stanford (legacy)
NYU Stern
Wellesley
Smith
Wake Forest</p>
<p>What are good safeties?</p>
<p>Thoughts on the list? Does it achieve her goal?</p>
<p>I like the "great summer jobs in her intended field" part for a prospective business major; also the experience abroad and the strong Spanish. I suspect her success may lie in how she fashions her apps. By that I mean strong individual components that together present a complete (and coherent) package. She might want to think about asking her recs (academic and professional) to address different aspects of her qualifications.</p>
<p>As for safeties, are you folks Cali residents? If so, maybe one of the UCs is strong in business majors. (I'm thinking Berkeley, which may not be a "safety." l'll defer to knowledgeable Cali folks on suggestions.) How's the counseling at her school? Can you rely on them, based on history with past students, to guide her to some appropriate safeties? </p>
<p>I just have to ask. How come Harvard's not on her list?</p>
<p>Honestly, it's hard to imagine that any of those schools is going to reject her, much less all of them. I wouldn't worry about safeties too much (and I think NYU, Smith, and Wake Forest probably come close to being safeties for her anyway). Maybe you should look at Michigan, which has a very strong undergraduate business program, numbers-oriented admissions, some very attractive merit scholarship programs, and a desperate need to attract some high-testing African-American students. Berkeley too, of course.</p>
<p>Do you need a financial safety? I mean, maybe NYU could be considered a safety for your daughter, but you may not get any money, depending on your particular situation, of course.</p>
<p>UCGrad
If shes open to other parts of the US, have her look at U of South Carolina as a safety...they would love her!
International Business is #1 ranked (surprise!!)in the US
High Achieving URM would be eligible for merit $$- take a look at their stats for scholarships.Any scholarship win means in state tuition rate for out of staters.
She might be a candidate for the McNair...highest scholarship for OOS students with excellent perks..look it up on their website.
USC (the other USC LOL) is a diverse campus.Has the largest African American % of any flagship state U.If this is important to your D....
S, who is not minority but very used to attending diverse schools and living in a diverse city, felt this was a big plus on campus.Other places felt much too "white" to him.By the way, he is a McNair recipient and we're from NY.He found the school b/c of his major Sports Managment.Many McNairs come to USC b/c of International Business.</p>
<p>She's going to get in everywhere. (Her SATs likely put her in the top 150 or Black females in the U.S.</p>
<p>International business - depends on how you want to play it. Some of the schools have business programs, and some don't. On the other hand, some of the schools that don't have business programs -- Smith and Wellesley -- have the best language/cultural studies programs. </p>
<p>There are other ways to do this - and with safety schools as well. At George Washington, for example, you can do a double major in the Business School (international concentration) and one from the Elliot School of International Affairs. The same is true at American University, with Kogod School of Business and the School for International Service. Both schools will set your d. up with internships beginning in her first year. And she will likely qualify for massive merit aid. (My d., also a URM, with similar aspirations, is looking at both of these possibilities.)</p>
<p>Thank you for these quality responses. They remind me how shallow my knowledge is!</p>
<p>Alu, I'd love to hear more about the program at Princeton, it was on the list last month. Harvard disn't make the list because it just didn't do much for her on our visit. Is it worth another look?</p>
<p>Some more facts: DD would eat up the cultural studies programs anywhere and I'd love to hear more about where this is strong. What are potential majors related to cultural studies or interdisiplinary programs that might be a fit?</p>
<p>Her ideal school size is 5000 undergrads.</p>
<p>She is very mature and worldly, I think she would get bored at really small schools without sister schools and in remote settings.</p>
<p>Moi is the only one interested in merit aid! She will not get need based aid and we are prepared to pay for any school.</p>
<p>We realize among blacks, her scores are very high. As the daughter of two top school educated parents, she's not the type of URM schools seem most interested in attracting. We are scared of getting cocky and have figured she needs a safety that would be same without any URM boost.</p>
<p>We do have a good college counselor. She is strategy oriented and thinks DD should apply somewhere ED.</p>
<p>Smith probably has the strongest language/cultural studies programs (especially when you add in the Five College Certificate Programs in Middle Eastern, African, and Asian Studies), as evidenced by far higher rates of undergraduate Fulbrights than any of the Ivies or other schools referenced. The percentage of language/cultural studies majors they have (roughly 17%) is about the same as that of Middlebury, and they maintain their own very rigorous JYA programs in western Europe. (They do have some merit aid - not a lot - but, more importantly, she would likely qualify for a STRIDE scholarship, a paid research internship in the first two years awarded to roughly 45 incoming first-years. My d. had one - she is a musicologist - and worked on producing a workable score for the first opera ever written by a woman, which was then performed with 2,700 folks attending, and likely set her up for graduate school rather nicely. She just got back from JYA in Italy, where all courses were taught in Italian, all class discussions were in Italian, and all papers had to be written in Italian.)</p>
<p>Wellesley is also excellent in that department, though without anything quite like the Five-College linkages. I also have a step-nephew who did similar at Duke, and...I will be gracious by not commenting. </p>
<p>On the flipside, however, while they have fine econ departments, none of the women's colleges have business programs. </p>
<p>"We realize among blacks, her scores are very high. As the daughter of two top school educated parents, she's not the type of URM schools seem most interested in attracting."</p>
<p>Statistically, the opposite in the case. In 1972, 9.9% of Princeton's student body was African American, virtually all of them receiving close to full need-based scholarships. Now it is 9.6%, with much, much lower levels of need. You'd likely find the same at H.</p>
<p>A few more reactions to things you're saying:</p>
<p>Harvard: The best brand in the world, a lot of international students and contacts, a wonderful location, great economics, great area studies. What's not to love?</p>
<p>ED: Since few of the places you're looking at have merit aid at all, and you won't get need-based aid, there's not a compelling financial reason not to apply ED. But . . . she's a really strong candidate. She shouldn't apply anyplace ED unless she knows it's her first choice. It's one thing to apply ED strategically because you think it doubles your chances from 20% to 40%. It's another to apply ED to increase your chances from 80% to 90%. I'm being a little facetious, but you get the point, I'm sure. </p>
<p>That said, if she develops a real first choice, and it's a school where ED makes sense -- which certainly includes Wharton, Duke, and Dartmouth -- that could sure make your life and her life easier. And, if she doesn't get it, it would be a clear signal that she ought to apply to whatever safety you've picked. (N.B. -- I don't think any of those schools forbid applying EA elsewhere if you have an ED application in. But Brown may. You should check. Also, you can apply to rolling-admission schools early consistent with an ED application.)</p>
<p>URM: You're probably right in general, but my un-expert but not uninformed read is the same as mini's: she's in such a small group statistically that coming from a relatively advantaged background won't matter. The African-American kids I know who did reasonably well at strong high schools and got within 200 points of your daughter's SAT scores are at the college of their choice, notwithstanding their "bad class background" (in Red Guard terms). It's not that she wouldn't be able to get rejected from one or even all of HYPS (notwithstanding her legacy status at S), but I suspect a college has to be THAT selective even to think about not accepting her.</p>
<p>How about Georgetown, by the way? Probably equals or betters the best of your list for "international", and I'm skeptical about the value of "business" as the focus of undergraduate education (some economics and accounting classes are plenty).</p>
<p>JHS, your comments on ED are food for thought. Well meaning people keep insisting ED is the way to go with competition what it is this year. All of the comments about legacies losing the boost if they don't apply ED. I think she would rather not apply ED but is worried about losing the boost. Thoughts?</p>
<p>Unless there is a very clear first choice, what for? She is going to get into 80% or more of the schools to which she applies anyway. So even if she loses one or even two of the many good choices by not applying ED (which I highly doubt), she loses even more choices by locking in early when, come April, there may in fact be other terms whe would likely have preferred.</p>
<p>A full-pay African-American URM with 2300 SATs? I will pay you a dollar for every one of those you can confirm was rejected by Harvard, Yale, Princeton, make it all the Ivies, add in Stanford, Duke, NYU, Wake Forest, Wellesley, and Smith. If it adds up to a pizza, I'll include a free topping.</p>
<p>Forget ED, please. 1) She doesn't need it. 2) She gives up the chance to think/grow/learn more about schools if she commits 5 months earlier than need be. 3) She gives up the opportunity for merit aid and all of the special recruiting/enticing/wooing that goes with it. 4) Whoever said legacy benefit is lost without an ED boost? I challenge them to support that factually.</p>
<p>Now, on to ideas. I think you've got most of them from posters above. I especially second American/GWU as possible safeties for her interests. Although others may be right that she doesn't need safeties, I firmly believe in the comfortable, stress-free feeling that comes from an early acceptance. Which brings me to UMich - which has the rolling admissions.</p>
<p>Leaving the category of safeties for a moment, she might consider Johns Hopkins. World-renowned for International Relations, recently added a business school for undergrads, urban environment in a cool city with easy access to all that Washington, DC has to offer for her interests. Worth a thought.</p>
<p>Well, she has legacy status at Duke and Stanford. I think it matters, and matters ED, at Duke. I am not certain it matters all that much at Stanford, and Stanford doesn't have ED. I don't think there is a significant legacy boost EA at the SCEA schools.</p>
<p>But . . . so what? I think she'll be accepted at Duke if she applies, ED or RD. With the list you have, it's hard to see why Duke would be at the top unless she really loves the look-and-feel-and-basketball-teams of Duke. (I have an African-American acquaintance here whose daughter is a rising senior at Duke and loves it fiercely, by the way. And she doesn't even like basketball that much.)</p>
<p>For me, the question really is does she want to try for the Huntsman Program at Penn, which is ultra-high-prestige, precisely tailored to her interests, and so selective she might not be accepted? I don't know whether she can apply ED to Penn and not be bound if she's accepted to Wharton but not Huntsman, but I assume that's possible. (I also don't know whether, if she applies ED to Huntsman without a Wharton back-up, and is rejected or deferred, she could then apply RD to Wharton or change her application so that it included a Wharton back-up. That might be relevant. She might not want to risk either winding up at Wharton only ED, or being precluded from applying to Wharton.)</p>
<p>Penn accepts a lot of kids ED, and the perception around here is certainly that there is a significant advantage to applying ED there. I don't know how applicable that is to Huntsman, though. If she really wants to do the Huntsman program, she should probably apply ED.</p>
<p>Other than that, and other than absolutely being in love with one of the other schools -- something I think I remember she hasn't been, so far -- I would think the best option for a "fast track" in international business would be Stanford, and that takes ED off the table.</p>
<p>The other thing to consider is whether she wants working internships/research position to play a major part of her education. At American/GWU, that is pretty much standard, beginning the first year. At Smith, it is true for the STRIDE scholars. As far as I am aware, it isn't standard fare (at least for the first two years) at any of the other places on the list.</p>
<p>If that isn't a concern/issue or part of her learning style, then it can be ignored.</p>
<p>wrt Stanford, I'm not sure how it fits an undergraduate student who has a possible interest in a business major. The highly respected business program is obviously there (I have a Stanford MBA). But it is graduate school only.</p>
<p>Not saying she needs to major in business to pursue a "fast track career in international business." Not at all. But if she wants the chance to study/major in business at the undergrad level - it's not an option, I don't believe.</p>
<p>It's been awhile since I was there, so maybe something's changed. But I don't think that has.</p>
<p>Yes, it is Huntsman she would apply to ED. You then choose which school you want as backup and she would choose Wharton. I don't know however if the give you the backup ED.</p>
<p>Huntsman truly seems a wonderful fit. The best we've identified. I would really love to know what it's key competition would be.</p>
<p>NUY Stern is there because of the internship possibilities. She also loves NYC. We are concerned about whether there would be enough college life.</p>
<p>I also thought JHU with the new B school could be a strong fit. I must confess to thinking about recent murders there and gritty campus issues. I would love opinions/knowledge on this.</p>
<p>We will take a hard look at Harvard.</p>
<p>Thoughts on Vanderbilt and Emory? How are their undergrad business programs. She would love the locations.</p>
<p>No, but I believe Stanford with a major/minor combination of area studies and economics (or, really, almost anything good) beats her only undergraduate business option besides Wharton, NYU Stern, in the race to the "fast track". Honestly, I think it would beat Wharton straight up, too, although maybe only by a nose. It doesn't necessarily beat the Huntsman dual-degree program, which is really one heck of a credential if that's what you want to do.</p>
<p>You don't have to major in business to get value out of being somewhere with a great business school. There are lectures and programs to attend and people to meet; you can learn stuff that isn't on your transcript but actually helps you, and you can meet people, find out what they're doing, network, learn from their mistakes, etc. It's definitely a point in favor of Stanford, Duke and Dartmouth (and, for that matter, Harvard, although the Harvard B-school is separate enough to be a little less accessible) vs. Brown or Smith.</p>