<p>Wiscongene, LACs are not all located in rural outposts. A number of excellent LACs are urban or suburban (Macalester, Vassar, Swarthmore) or part of consortiums (Swarthmore, Pomona). The top ones have academic reputations comparable to the top universities. And yes, there are lots of people at HYPMS who don’t have 4.0s and 2400s, but do really interesting ECs (like breed guppies and build guitars). As someone who interviews for an HYPMS, I can assure you that those ECs do count. I LOVE talking to people who have done something other than edit the school newpaper and are captain of the math team, because there aren’t that many of them. The difference is that those students are known by professionals for their expertise in guppy breeding and the guitars they build are works of art…</p>
<p>Guppy Breeding sounds like an awesome essay topic!</p>
<p>Well, I understand that LACs are worthy schools but, as I’ve said, they aren’t realistic in terms of my major. It’s best that I go somewhere with a large network and big research opportunities. I don’t think you’re quite understanding. The guppy breeding and guitar-building are hobbies. I haven’t been “recognized” by professionals in either one and I wouldn’t even know where to start in terms of doing so. Of course, <em>I</em> think these things are interesting, but I really <em>can’t</em> list them as ECs because they’re hobbies. It would be like listing “tennis” as an EC just because you play it on the weekends with your parents or something. My point is that I’m interested and curious, but not necessarily accomplished. I don’t have the finances or expertise to parlay either hobby into a business expenditure and my parents don’t care to buy me opportunities. My worry isn’t that I won’t get into HYP (I won’t even apply), it’s that I won’t get into schools like Wisconsin, Illinois, Ohio State etc. where I’ve seen 36ers get denied for no apparent reason other than their (lack of) ECs.</p>
<p>I understand where Wicongene is coming from.</p>
<p>Many of my favorite ECs happen outside regularly structured school-time. For example, I spend hundreds of hours programming for open source projects. This is quite difficult and rewarding, but it’s not like I’ve won any recognition for it: there aren’t awards or any faculty advisors. Hence, based only on my in-school activities, my record looks quite weak when compared to other HYPS applicants, who have significant work and national awards in recognized areas.</p>
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I’m fairly certain you’ll get in to those. They really don’t give a damn about ECs: it’s all about the numbers. In fact, Ohio State basically guaruntees full scholarships (and admission) for students with high test scores.</p>
<p>With your extra curriculars, your chance at the “lower-end ivies” (as you call them (Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, Penn, Columbia)) is near the low 1-2%s.</p>
<p>There is no rule (although for some reason people think there is), that your EC has to be organized and recognized by some outside entity to count. Tennis on the weekends with your folks is an EC but so boring it probably isn’t worth talking about - hopefully you take your game seriously enough that you’ve upped it level by offering lessons, competing or doing something other than just hitting the ball week after week. Many artists work alone for long hours without recognition and that certainly counts as an EC even if you don’t have a portfolio to submit (although it helps). Great chef who has worked your way through the entire tome of French cookery? Tell us about it. Open source projects can be facinating. How did you get involved in that? Wrote a novel (even if unpublished)? What drove you to do it? Have you self-studied Sanskrit because you are interested in reading the Vedas in the original? These are all ECs and they are vastly more interesting than hearing about another kid on the tennis team. Like I said, I interview for a top school and I want to see kids who have something that they care about, have invested themselves in, have taken to a higher level than the average dillitante, and have learned something insightful about themselves in the process. That’s what an EC is for.</p>
<p>Well, if I can trust that you’re being honest, how does one go about listing such ECs on an application?</p>
<p>Wiscongene, what possible motive could I have for misleading you? But don’t believe me - ask the next college admissions rep who visits your school. Once they finish their spiel, go up to them afterwards and tell them you build guitars and breed guppies. Ask if those are legit ECs. </p>
<p>How do you put it on the application? You list the activity “builds guitars” or “french cookery” or “guppy breeding” or “restores old cars” and the hours/week and then you use that space next to it to summarize what you’ve accomplished. If it’s really interesting, you use the 150 word space in the common app to talk about it in more detail and explain why it matters you.</p>
<p>My favorite interview this past year, by the way, was with a guy who was interested in studying botany, was an avid gardener, was learning how to do plant photography, worked at a nursery over the summers, and also had been canning his produce for years. He was facinating to talk to. I know editors of the school newspaper put in long hours, have to have a lot of organizational and leadership skills, must communicate well, etc…but frankly, if I were the adcom, I’d rather admit this guy because he has something unusual to talk about - and a passion that I know isn’t manufactured for college.</p>