<p>By the way, you mentioned financial concerns. That happens to be one of my objections to CS at Harvey Mudd (my son is in a similar situation). For the very expensive privates, I want to see schools that deliver on the full spectrum, whether you depart after a BS or choose to pursue graduate school. Those would be the “big dog” schools you mentioned, as well as the ones you didn’t (CMU!), and a few others. Same price, but a stronger product. And there are definitely schools that deliver equal or better value <a href=“for%20CS”>I</a> *at half or two thirds the price. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if the liberal arts atmosphere is crucial to you, then that’s a different story, and perhaps worth paying for. It would definitely be a great experience.</p>
<p>@Alexandre
Hmm, okay. I’m going to look up financial aid information for those schools. I’ve compiled a list of schools that a lot of people have mentioned after searching on CC and through this thread:
Boston College (Massachusetts)
Boston University (Massachusetts)
Bucknell (Pennsylvania)
California Institute of Technology (California)
Carnegie Mellon (Pennsylvania)
Cornell University (New York)
Columbia University (New York)
Dartmouth College (New Hampshire)
Georgia Institute of Technology (Georgia)
Harvey Mudd (California)
Harvard University (Massachusetts)
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Massachusetts)
Princeton University (New Jersey)
Rice University (Texas)
RPI (New York)
Rochester Institute of Technology (New York)
San Jose State University (California)
Stanford University (California)
Tufts University (Massachusetts)
University of California: Berkeley (California)
University of California: San Diego (California)
University of Massachusetts: Amherst (Massachusetts)
University of Michigan: Ann Harbor (Michigan)
University of Southern California (California)
Worcester Polytechnic Institute (Massachusetts)</p>
<p>@MisterK
I do plan on getting a master’s degree after my bachelor’s. Is there really any benefit to me in doing so in the future? I plan on working as a software engineer in companies like Google or Microsoft. I’m also hoping to get a degree in business later on, to move on up in companies.</p>
<p>I’ve never really considered liberal arts colleges until a few of my friends told me about their desires to go to one. As far as I know, most liberal arts colleges don’t have strong mathematics/engineering/sciences departments, with the exception of a few (Harvey Mudd for example).</p>
<p>Money is definitely going to be a touchy issue for me when selecting a school, providing I can get accepted into the school in the first place.</p>
<p>kk415kk - Here’s a problem with Mudd: If you want to go out and work after your BS in CS, the vast majority of hiring managers won’t know a thing about it. Most will never have even heard the name. And they won’t be completely wrong, either; they’ll know that the stream of strong students from the top-50 CS programs in universities that took advantage of the graduate school connection will most likely have better preparation for the actual jobs. Of course, you’ll always appreciate your broad education, and that’s a lot more important. But when you pay that much, why not get it all?</p>
<p>As for masters CS - if you’re not interested in a PhD program, look for a cheap way to get it with a fifth year program out of undergrad, maybe moving the credits around with APs or taking a few extras. That’s the smart way to bump up the starting salary without incurring tons of extra effort and paying extra. Again, probably not the kind of thing possible at Mudd, but very easy in many places.</p>
<p>If I’m picking a school in California, it’ll more than likely be UC Berkeley than Harvey Mudd, but I was just curious as to how it was different from universities. Now that you’ve shown me your view on it, I think I’ll skip out on Harvey Mudd.</p>
<p>What are the uses of a PhD in CS other for than university-level teaching or research? </p>
<p>I’m maxing out on my AP’s as much as possible - I don’t think I can handle self-studying more than two this year, seeing as they are chemistry and computer science. By the end of senior year, if all goes well, I should have about a dozen AP tests take, give or take a couple.</p>
<p>Oh man, I’m sorry, but don’t let me (some random guy on the internet) make you dismiss Harvey Mudd. It attracted you, so check it out. From everything I know, it’s a wonderful place, surely a wonderful experience. My opinion is only from the practical side, but it depends on what you’re after.</p>
<p>As for Berkeley CS, that’s the real thing. Totally.</p>
<p>A PhD goes far in industry as well - they’re very important in the companies that you named, for example. I’m talking about high-tech software development companies, not IT, MIS or general programming jobs. </p>
<p>Put it this way: undergrads come in with CS degrees full of energy, and the big problem is to prevent them from doing irreparable damage to the code base while they learn. The PhDs come in with technical sophistication, and they’re expected to exercise solid judgment right out of the gate. The technical leaders need to operate at PhD level, with or without the degree. </p>
<p>If you’re already thinking of the MBA route, however, it’s most likely going to be one or the other (but not necessarily). By the way, a PhD in CS would be absolutely free (tuition plus living stipend), and if you choose an MBA, it will be easy to arrange for a company to pay for it. It all starts with a marketable CS degree.</p>
<p>I actually didn’t know about Harvey Mudd until it was mentioned here. Of course, I’ll check out all my options before I decide which schools I want to apply to.</p>
<p>How many years of school will it generally take on average for a bachelor’s and a master’s? A bachelor’s, master’s, PhD? And a PhD is free?! That’s very interesting - I didn’t know that.</p>
<p>I do like CS with a passion, but I know that I’m going to hit a max salary income at one point or another as a software engineer, and I would like to extend that even further by moving up to managerial positions.</p>
<p>EDIT: Also, is it possible to take discrete mathematics and get college credit for it through an online course? If so, where? </p>
<p>EDIT: I’m filled with questions right now. Is abstract algebra generally taken by a CS major?</p>
<p>PhD programs (including masters) could be 4 years, or 8 years - or even more. It depends on the place. Masters vary greatly, from a few extra courses tacked on to undergrad (an extra semester or two), to three or more years of full-time research plus thesis. They could be standalone, or part of a PhD program. Not all BS, MS or PhD degrees are equal, far from it. Many people in the field will understand, but not everybody will. You need to consider your own goals, your target audience. </p>
<p>When you hit your max salary, there are lots of options, not necessarily requiring another degree. You could gamble with a startup, maybe even start one. Or consult. It’s also easy to move off the tech track into management, sales, marketing, etc. </p>
<p>I don’t know anything about online courses. For CS, you’ll definitely want discrete math, and you’ll take a number of abstract algebra courses.</p>
<p>I’ll start a new thread in a different section to ask about the classes. Which section of CC would be best for questions on where to take those courses, etc?</p>
<p>Wow, a PhD would mean staying in school for at least 8 years then. I guess I won’t know if I want to until after I actually begin to major in CS. As for after I hit the max salary, I’ll have to wait and see when that happens.</p>
<p>If you are not a California resident, UCB is not likely to offer you a lot of need-based financial aid. </p>
<p>If you want to keep the option of starting your own business open, try to avoid loans. Many of the schools that say they meet “100% of demonstrated financial need” include loans in the mix. A number of private schools have replaced loans with grants. Read the financial aid pages carefully.</p>
<p>As I mentioned in a private message to you, there are some highly competitive merit scholarships out there at good private schools. Take a look at them. It was well worth my son’s time to make a couple of in-depth visits that included finding out about research, getting details about how AP credits could be used, the option of taking graduate courses and/or working on a master’s degree simultaneously, etc.</p>
<p>As for getting a Ph.D., it is increasingly common for students to work a couple of years in between undergraduate and doctoral programs. Personally, I wouldn’t postpone it too long, but a couple of years seems to work OK (basing this on my, and my husband’s, experiences.)</p>
<p>5 years is typical for a PhD program in engineering, if you enter directly after a BS in the same type of engineering. Most engineering PhD programs are fully supported, with duties as a Teaching Assistant (TA) or Research Assistant (RA).</p>
<p>If I had to choose between the two, I’d be interested in being a research assistant, at least for the time of PhD studies. But after that, I’d still like to get into the computer industry for work. Teaching assistant isn’t really suitable for me.</p>
<p>kk, I’ll offer a few opinions, which are just that, personal opinions from a parent who has observed the aspirations and outcomes of a lot of high-achieving students over the last several years:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Don’t waste your time on the chances threads.</p></li>
<li><p>MIT admissions are not predictable from what I have observed over the last several years. Make sure you stay realistic.</p></li>
<li><p>You say you will need significant financial aid, but do you know for a fact that your family qualifies according to the rules established by your target schools? If you haven’t worked through the forms with your family, perhaps you should think about doing so before you spend a lot more time on your list. A lot of kids will need financial aid to go to schools that cost many tens of thousands, but that is because their parents will not/can not come up with the Expected Family Contribution. Do you know which group you belong to?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Keep in mind that privates are often more generous with need-based aid than public schools, and that out of state public schools are the least generous of all. Don’t ignore the fact that your record makes you eligible for merit money at a lot of schools, and makes you a candidate for some of the competitive ones, as well.</p>
<p>As far as advice on MIT admissions, I have none, except that I think they still maintain an admissions blog which might give you some hints about what they value in a candidate for admissions. I don’t know much about the current admissions staff, but in past years they made a rather large deal about not assigning a great deal of value to accruing AP credit, especially if it looks to them like it is at the expense of extracurricular achievements (I believe they call it “following your passion”). You clearly have some long-held interests, so keep them up.</p>
<p>Thanks for your input. The chances thread is just to get a general opinion - it’s not going to stop me from applying, but I’m mostly looking for advice from those who say I don’t have as high a chance of getting in.</p>
<p>Realistically, I’m prepared to acknowledge that I have a very slim chance at enrolling in MIT, but it’s still my <em>dream</em> school, and I’m still shooting for it and pushing as hard as I can to raise those chances, even slightly.</p>
<p>I haven’t looked at all the schools on my list yet (it’s to keep me on track on what schools to look up later), but I have looked at MIT’s. I don’t want to openly announce my financial situation, but I’m confident about qualifying for their need-based financial aid/scholarship.</p>
<p>I’m not sacrificing an extreme amount of time for AP’s, but the ones I self-study are the ones I’m actually interested in (eg. chemistry and computer science). The school AP classes are just because I’d rather take a challenging course than bore myself in normal classes, which is what’s happening with me not taking AP U.S. History this year.</p>
<p>Best of luck at MIT. But if you computer science is where your heart is at, the california schools from berkley, USC, Stanford, etc. are all very excellent in computer science and in engineering.</p>
The PhDs come in with technical sophistication, and they’re expected to exercise solid judgment right out of the gate. The technical leaders need to operate at PhD level, with or without the degree. </p>