Got in to the "Seven Sisters", which to choose?

Parents Forum
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<p>Mom of a first-year Smithie here. What a long thread–I have to confess that I have not read all 15 pages! However, I’d like to put in my two cents and I hope it’s not repetitive. My daughter was accepted at all four schools: Wellesley, Smith, Mount Holyoke and Bryn Mawr. She visited all four multiple times, with overnights at Wellesley, Smith and Mount Holyoke. Once accepted, she decided not to visit Bryn Mawr again because she felt it to be too small for her and we were unimpressed with the English offerings in the catalog (to be truthful, we also didn’t look at what Haverford offered).</p>

<p>To be honest, this time last year, her first love was Wellesley for a number of reasons. It seems that everyone knew about Wellesley, including her high school friends, it has a “name,” it’s high up in USNWR rankings, it has a gorgeous campus, and she envisioned herself going into Boston occasionally. Of the three schools, Wellesley gave her the least financial aid, all need-based. She visited the campus three times. On her first visit, we chatted briefly with a student about competition; she said that it was very competitive in government, econ, etc., but not so much in the humanities. The second visit was positive; I think she sat in a class or two and enjoyed them. The last visit included an overnight there, which was disappointing; she bonded much better with the other prospies than with the Wellesley host and her friend who were too preoccupied with other things. </p>

<p>She visited Mount Holyoke three or four times (I’ve lost count!), which included sitting in on four classes and doing an overnight. She loved the magnificent campus. However, surprisingly all four classes she attended were a disappointment; the students were mostly unresponsive and the profs were mixed and in one class, she knew the answers and the students didn’t. For the admitted students open house, they had all the prospies watch a movie together, which seemed really dumb, when they could have been bonding with each other and current students instead. Mount Holyoke gave her the most money, a merit scholarship, which was nice but when we asked what was involved with it, we never got a solid answer, just that it was going to be great. We felt that four classes was an adequate sampling.</p>

<p>Smith, as far as the campus went, was the least attractive to her (my daughter’s a big nature-lover) and she initially was turned off by the proximity to Northampton. Smith gave her a scholarship which was less than Mount Holyoke’s; however, the STRIDE scholarship included an outstanding two-year research opportunity. She visited twice, the second time with an overnight where she felt completely welcomed and she adored both classes she sat in on–both the students and the profs. She was worried about the “in your face” political correctness, but was reassured by a current Smithie we know that there are lots of caring friends to discover. </p>

<p>Because of the STRIDE research and scholarship, she wound up going to Smith and now ADORES Smith and couldn’t imagine being anywhere else. Wellesley now has its foibles. :slight_smile: She loves her STRIDE research, she loves her profs and interesting classmates, she loves her friends and her house, and she loves that she can take the free bus to any of the other colleges and wants to take a course off-campus next year, just to mix it up. She has come to love Northampton with all its fun little shops and ethnic and pubby restaurants, appreciating the independence and convenience of just a five-minute walk into town.</p>

<p>I have a couple more comments about Smith vs. Wellesley. My impression is that at Smith the students are more inner-directed, challenging themselves to do better, and grades are essentially never discussed among students. I don’t get that impression with Wellesley, with the whole worry about grade deflation which demonstrates competition among the students. So for that reason, I think Smith academically feels more emotionally safe. This suits my daughter beautifully as she is very inner-driven and hates direct competition. I also think that Smith is more Ph.D.-oriented and Wellesley is more MBA, law, etc.-oriented., but I could be wrong about that.</p>

<p>My daughter is the kind of person who would have blossomed anywhere, and perhaps yours will as well. Other than creating a grid with all the pros and cons which someone already suggested, you could ask your daughter to just close her eyes, go with her gut and see which college comes up in her mind’s eye. Good luck with your decision! You sure got a good thread going!</p>

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<p>Do you know more about Bryn Mawr? Do you have to take PE courses? It seems like there are a lot of have to courses you have to take compared to Smith. Also how about the art course situation there/ at Haverford? We are not able to visit either and have to make a decision soon.</p>

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<p>Well if Smith is your comparison, there will be a lot of required courses at any college, a there are no required courses for Smith, outside of the courses required for your major and the Writing Intensive course you have to take first-year (and there are WI’s in every department). If you want to qualify for Latin Honors (graduate with a cum laude, summa cum laude, or magna cum laude degree) you have to make the GPA cut-off and you have to take at least one class in each of the “areas of knowledge,” which are literature, history, math/logical reasoning, natural science, social science, arts, and foreign languages. Some people choose not to go that route, but you can prioritize it if you want. </p>

<p>One of the things I liked about Smith was that it gave me freedom (open curriculum) but not “too much” freedom (a la Hampshire College). So I felt like I had structure and flexibility. But some people really prefer a college with a reasonable amount of required courses because they think it forces you to be more well-rounded/forces them to do things that are good for them but that they may not want to do. </p>

<p>One thing about open curriculum courses is that I think it really makes departments “compete” for students by offering more compelling courses even at the intro level. If all first years are required to take X class in X department, that department doesn’t have to work as hard to expose students to their discipline. Whereas when students have free choice departments do have to work hard to attract them to taking classes in discilplines they might not otherwise think of, especially in the early years, so they can give more of them the “bug” for that subject and hopefully hook more of them into majoring, giving the department more sway when it comes to allotting institutional resources (which in turn benefits the studetns, greater investment in profs and more new classes being approved and sometimes new facilities and so on).</p>

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<p>S&P, I’d never thought of that angle about the open curriculum–the departments competing for students’ interest. I’d only considered the beauty of open curriculum to be that all the students taking their classes WANT to be there and so they’ll be more invested in the courses! Now I understand why Ann Leone, the Director of Landscape Studies, has been encouraging my daughter to declare a major in the field. :)</p>

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<p>Wow, CarolynB, my daughter had almost and opposite experience. She loved Smith on paper, but was less than thrilled with her visits. She attended Simply Smith in the summer and was put off by some of the prospective students. They were talking over the admissions rep, shouting out questions, etc. The rep kept asking them to let others speak, ask questions etc. We figured it was a fluke group of prospies and didn’t give it too much weight.</p>

<p>When DD was accepted with a STRIDE she was very excited. She did not enjoy her overnight all, however and was sorely disappointed. Her host was not very social and DD spent lots of time reading a book she brought with her. She attended three classes and commented that it was a bit like Simply Smith all over again. The students did much of the talking/arguing. She said that she was interested in learning more from the prof and spent time wishing some of the students would STOP. It also bothered her that these students did not seem to be listening to each other as much as they were formulating their own arguments etc. When I asked here if she learned anything, she replied “Yeah, students here really like the sound of their own voices”.</p>

<p>Her overnight at MHC was vastly different. She didn’t see a movie that I know of, but spent time talking with and visiting freinds of her host to get lots of perspectives. Her host tracked down a friend of hers who was majoring in an area that DD was interested in, and she was extremely helpful in answering questions. She attended three classes; one with two professors discussing world politics (playing off each other’s point of view), another about British imperialism, and a third I can’t remember). She actually spoke to some senior citizens who were in the world politics class. They aren’t students but apparently unofficially audit this particular class as community members interested in world politics from the pioneer valley. In the second class she learned quite a bit and was able to hear the differing points of view from students from India, Malaysia and Britain, all with opinions formed first hand. </p>

<p>She ended up attending MHC as a Twenty First Century Scholar (20,000 merit) and is loving every minute of it! She loves the honors tutorial that comes with the scholarship and is loving her research in the bio lab of a professor. She could not be happier.</p>

<p>I guess it proves the old adage “different strokes”!</p>

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<p>And that all these schools are really peer institutions. Classes and students may fail to impress one prospie on a given day, and the same institution will wow another prospie.</p>

<p>As long as we don’t condescend to each other, it’s great that different women have different preferences. Makes life more interesting, don’t you think?</p>

<p>Glad both women found their match.</p>

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<p>Thanks bone for posting, we don’t hear much from those with Mount Holyoke experience, so it was a valuable contribution to this discussion!</p>

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<p>Bone, that’s fascinating! First impressions and the quality of the campus visit can make all the difference! My daughter was also accepted as a Twenty-First Century Scholar at MHC, but when we asked what the scholarship entailed they couldn’t really give us concrete answers so we didn’t have much to compare to the Smith STRIDE. I remember asking during one of the MHC Open Houses in April; I thought they just hadn’t figured what the shape was going to be yet, so, as they say, a bird in hand is worth two in the bush, we knew how the STRIDE was structured, so we went with that. I’m glad to hear the Twenty-First Century scholarship has substance with your daughter’s enjoying the tutorial and her science research.</p>

<p>I think colleges need to think very carefully who hosts overnights for prospies. My daughter had three overnights and two were fairly awful: at one, the host was overwhelmed with too many prospies, was too preoccupied with her friends and was drinking; at the other, the host was sweet but extremely, extremely shy and quiet, who studied most of the night, and didn’t introduce my daughter to anyone, so my daughter wound up attending the movie, an unsatisfactory solution. My daughter’s certainly not scarred for life; I’m not expecting perfection, just some awareness from the hosts, recognizing they are the face of the school and sensitively welcoming prospies into the college community. This semester my daughter was chosen to be a Gold Key tour guide, a big honor because the guides recognize they are the first real face of Smith that prospies see. It’s just unfortunate that colleges spend so much time, energy and money wooing these kids and then the visits can often bomb, with negative results. I know that’s life, but what the heck! OK, OK, I’ll get off my soap box now! :)</p>

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<p>“I think colleges need to think very carefully who hosts overnights for prospies.”</p>

<p>Absolutely! This is exactly why my younger D dropped Oberlin from her list very early on…</p>

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<p>As a current Wellesley student, I don’t find Wellesley academically cut throat. Instead, I think students hold themselves to high standards. I have always found that my fellow classmates are willing to collaborate/ study together. Yes, Wellesley students “work hard,” but the vast majority of us wouldn’t have it any other way. </p>

<p>I wouldn’t describe Wellesley as preppy. There is a whole range of how people dress from “brand name” clothes to sweat pants. Wellesley has socioeconomic diversity (although I think Smith might technically have more students on Pell Grants). Wellesley’s econ department is very good, and there are many students who are interested in business. But there are also plenty of people who are interested in grad school, med school, law school, or “the workforce,” and there are some who just don’t know where they are going yet. </p>

<p>I know of more than a few people who had to take a science class, and ended up as science majors. People seem happy with the sciences here.</p>

<p>The 'Vil has a CVS, GAP, numerous coffee shops/ restaurants, and an independent book store. A grocery store and the public libraries are only a slightly longer trek away. There is also no shortage of places to order take out. When I first got here, it shocked me that, unlike my hometown, Wellesley drivers actually stop for pedestrians, and that people often leave their bikes unlocked in the Vil. I see citizens of the town of Wellesley walking on campus all the time, and I know they attend various events on campus. On Saturdays, there is a bus to the mall in Natik. (It’s huge. I think it’s (one of) the largest malls in New England). Some upperclassmen have cars, and there are zip cars on campus. (Zip cars were founded by a Wellesley alum, by the way.)</p>

<p>On weekends, there is plenty to do on campus, and in Boston. Students find a balance that works for them. </p>

<p>While Wellesley (like most colleges) have had to make cuts due to a drop in the endowment, it still has a huge endowment for a liberal arts college. </p>

<p>I love that Wellesley has an honor code. It’s nice that professors trust students (and can give take home exams), and that students can trust each other. </p>

<p>For those who love Harry Potter, Wellesley has its own platform 9 and 3/4. </p>

<p>When I had my Mount Holyoke interview with an alum, I learned that she got her job via a Smith alum. Really, with the seven sisters you can’t go wrong.</p>

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<p>My daughter made the Bryn Mawr/Mount Holyoke decision (as well as coed options)…those were the only Sisters she applied to. She’s a senior now and some of the details have “faded into the sunset.”</p>

<p>She truly enjoyed the academic classes at Bryn Mawr, but found the overnight/social aspect not to her liking.</p>

<p>Granted, she fell in love with Mount Holyoke the minute she set foot on campus, but her classroom experiences and overnight were successes as well. The classes she sat in had high level, engaging discussions, in which she was encouraged to participate, even as a “prospie.” Professors gladly stayed and chatted with her. Her overnight went well. She felt that the bucolic campus setting would be to her benefit, as it would help her relax from her own, self generated intensity.</p>

<p>Although she was granted a larger merit scholarship at Bryn Mawr, she chose Mount Holyoke (which was lovely in its own right) and never looked back. </p>

<p>Now, as she approaches graduation, she values every moment at Mount Holyoke. She has loved the academic intensity, supportive faculty and close knit student community.</p>

<p>Any of the Sister Schools will provide a wonderful college experience. Like a glove, you have to find the one that fits!</p>

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<p>I am amazed and delighted that we have kept this thread going this long. So many women weighting in on all five sisters.</p>

<p>It’s heartwarming.</p>

<p>And I don’t want to hear any more of how some are academically superior to others. I don’t think it’s true. Each has her own style.</p>

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<p>I agree with you, mythmom.</p>

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<p>Haven’t read the whole thread, so sorry if this is way off topic, but did catch a brief discussion about Vassar. It is, and will always be a “sister”, even though its coed.</p>

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<p>I agree, Mythmom. I’ve always felt a bond with alumnae from all seven, in part because our experiences were so similar. I’m going to my Mount Holyoke reunion soon, and I’m looking forward to my sisterhood fix!</p>

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<p>I went to Smith and then attended a graduate school where the director of admissions was a Bryn Mawr alum. There were plenty of women’s college grads there! I made friends with alums from Bryn Mawr and Wellesley and from their stories I realized that they are much more similar than different (especially Smith and BM…Wellesley struck me as a little less “crunchy,” which could be a pro or a con depending on the person!). </p>

<p>I liked Smith’s proximity to Northampton, its housing system, and its slightly larger size. I took two classes at Mt. Holyoke (along with 2 at Amherst and 1 and Hampshire), so it is possible to fit consortium classes into your schedule, with some careful planning…though I never managed to squeeze in whitewater kayaking at Hampshire, to my great regret! Many of those classes went towards a minor I self-designed. </p>

<p>I know people have asked for an end to the “X school is more academically rigorous” talk, and I agree that the schools are similar and it is possible to get a great education at any of them. With that said, I did better in my Mt. Holyoke classes than my Smith ones, with similar levels of work. The two professors I had there (math and anthropology departments) were very good. Particularly in the math class, which was a somewhat experimentally-taught statistics seminar including students at different levels, I got the sense that we were being graded on our progress relative to where we started, not on our absolute achievement. Again, that could be a pro or a con. </p>

<p>I think Mt. Holyoke’s campus is stunning (especially their library and campus center!) but would not want to live in such a removed location. I remember one day when I had a wait for the next bus back to Smith. I needed to run an errand–to buy toothpaste or something–and asked a MH student where I should go. She told me I could go to the campus bookstore (insanely overpriced) but that most students just found someone with a car and drove to Wal-Mart. I wouldn’t want to travel so far or be locked into campus prices/selection for necessities, but they obviously made it work. </p>

<p>I really agree with those who say that little things (the student who hosted you, an alum you meet, the class you sat in on) can give a lot–probably too much–weight to your perception of a school. I had the misfortune of living with an absolutely horrible, insane, MH alum the year after I graduated and while I know she is atypical, it still lowered my perception of the school. I imagine others have met people from Smith or other schools that they liked or disliked and it had the same effect!</p>

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<p>I find it very sad that you found three ways to knock MHC in such a short post and that you felt the need to.</p>

<p>And for the record, I have nothing to do with MHC, not an alum, D not an alum or student or prospie.</p>

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<p>^ It seems to me that anyone wanting to get input about these schools would be interested in **all **comments, and not want to only hear positive ones. Anything within the TOS and on topic is appropriate and potentially helpful, IMO.</p>

<p>I do agree that each of these schools is a great option, but that does not mean they are indistinguishable, and the OP (and anyone else interested in the topic) is looking for what the **differences<a href=“perhaps%20slight%20and%20perhaps%20very%20subjective”>/B</a> might be. Then the student can make up her own mind re how to weigh the various opinions and input, and consider them against her own experiences when visiting the schools.</p>

<p>By the way, I thought Stacy’s post was fairly balanced. She gave details of her experiences and acknowledged that they may or may not be representative. examples:

</p>

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<p>For the record, I have nothing to do with MHC, not an alum, D not an alum or student or prospie. </p>

<p>But I think people evaluating these choices could benefit from hearing about various pros and cons of each, to help them decide. Otherwise they are left with just flipping a coin.
To the extent there are actual differences, CC exists in part to help people become aware of them. I thought.</p>

<p>I see nothing wrong with post #236, it gives one person’s honest and informed impression, which people may give the weight they feel is appropriate.</p>

<p>If people are not to give their opinions on this board we might as well shut it down.</p>

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<p>^ Agreed, IMO there is no need to “censor” opinions here. We can post and read posts and respect each others’ input, I hope.</p>