<p>I can confirm that it is possible for Wellesley students to take classes at Olin, and at Babson as well.</p>
<p>“But my sense is that the atmosphere at the first two is a couple ticks more driven than at the second two.”</p>
<p>I think Bryn Mawr has tremendous academic pressure, although it’s different in nature from Smith and Wellesley. Bryn Mawr students call themselves Mawrtyrs with a great deal of pride, which tells you a lot about their self-image as extremely hard-working. Whether it’s true or false, Bryn Mawr believes down to its soul that NOBODY WORKS HARDER and the women at Princeton are missing out because they aren’t at BMC and GRRRR.</p>
<p>I agree that Wellesley is both materially harder to get into and more conventionally success-oriented than the other three. Going into finance, or to law or business school, is swimming against the stream at Bryn Mawr, but not at Wellesley.</p>
<p>"If I may be partisan for a moment, one of the virtues of the Wellesley/MIT cross registration arrangement is that MIT is not a fellow LAC with similar types of courses: it is a completely different kind of institution. "</p>
<p>I’ll add my partisan hat for Smith and Mount Holyoke — where students can take courses at UMASS - which offers courses in all areas – including non LAC areas of business and engineering. And…then there’s Hampshire - where there are courses for a student who thinks they might want to experience academics that are somewhat off the beaten path…but might not want a whole college career of that type of course!</p>
<p>@Consolation - Having male presidents was not all that unusual and I don’t think it really affected the way that Smith developed in terms of being more or less feminist. Men, after all, can be feminists too, and some of Smith’s male presidents are also some of its most progressive and beloved presidents. Our first President, John M. Greene, who was Sophia Smith’s reverend, insisted that his wife finish her higher education at Mt. Holyoke Seminary (then a two-year religious school, rather than a college in the modern sense) before they got married, which was quite progressive and feminist for the time. There’s a really touching book of their letters to each other that I discovered in my house’s library at Smith, where he wrote about the right of women to higher education and encouraged her in her studies.</p>
<p>That being said, it would be totally dumb to get into a “My women’s college is more feminist than your women’s college” contest. They’re ALL feminist, and if you don’t like a little feminism with your afternoon tea, you might be in the wrong tearoom.</p>
<p>Hanna, why do you think Bryn Mawr has more academic pressure than Mt. Holyoke and how does that manifest?</p>
<p>There’s no objective way to measure it, but that is my personal impression from having been a Seven Sisters student for two years and working with college applicants for eleven. Mt. Holyoke students don’t seem to brag so much about how much work they have and how overwhelmed they are and how many all-nighters they pulled in a row. They don’t wear T-shirts that say: “BMW[Bryn Mawr Women]: The Ultimate Striving Machine” or “BMC: *****, Moan, and Complain.” Mawrtyrs are extremely proud of how many of them earn PhDs, especially in the sciences. The atmosphere is just more relaxed at MHC.</p>
<p>Although in her case it was just a first impression, I think my daughter sensed a more relaxed atmosphere at Mt Holyoke as well - which is probably what makes it look like a better fit for her.</p>
<p>Thank you, Hanna and fendrock. I have to get D to read this thread when she comes home. It is really good. Maybe she will have more questions to ask.</p>
<p>Smith and Wellesley were D’s “final two,” she chose Smith and had an outstanding experience. Double major, Government and Math. Smith may have stronger science departments than the others but that doesn’t mean they’re weak elsewhere: Government, Econ, English, and Art History are all very strong off the top of my head.</p>
<p>Northampton is a <em>great</em> college town, I miss visiting. Wellesley is actually in a sleepy little town without much going on. The most over-sold aspect of Wellesley is the proximity to MIT and Boston; the shuttle bus takes almost an hour each way, imposing a significant time penalty and need for careful scheduling. </p>
<p>Smith is very big on internships and abroad/away programs; a very high percentage of students participate (something around half the juniors, S&P?) D spent her junior year between Washington, D.C. on a six-month Summer/Fall internship and then Spring in Budapest. One of her friends split her time between Rome and Oxford (drool).</p>
<p>D recently said that she thinks Smith made her better rounded than Wellesley would have. Bryn Mawr and Smith are the two most difficult schools for me to split. Had the conversation with a student & parent at an Admitted Students reception just this last weekend. Another nod to the MHC is more laid back; D would have died there.</p>
<p>Hmmm, D is not very laid back. She’s one of the most tightly wound people I know. I wonder if a more relaxed environment would be good for her or would just drive her crazy.</p>
<p>MHC has the leadership institute. It has drive in its own way. Wendy Wasserstein went to Mt. Holyoke and her play UNCOMMON WOMEN AND OTHERS neatly outlines the atmosphere of Mt. Holyoke in its own way.</p>
<p>Barnard is actually the most selective. It’s admit rate this year was 26%.</p>
<p>I think people always feel the college they selected made them what they are, so I’m not sure anecdotal evidence is the most reliable.</p>
<p>I think the most notable thing about Smith besides Northampton (would be my choice of the four for the town alone) is the House system which gives it a really different flavor.</p>
<p>Wellesley has bragging rights – Hillary notably. She was on the cover on Time when she gave her commencement speech. The prestige of Wellesley had to have something to do with that.</p>
<p>JHS knows better because he lives in the area but I wouldn’t just call Bryn Mawr suburban because there is a cute town there. Bryn Mawr does pride itself on producing PhD’s, which the others don’t to the same degree. Some of its departments, like Classics, are without peer really. And the post-bac program they have has some graduates on campus.</p>
<p>If visiting didn’t help then read, read, read the catalog. When my S was choosing between Williams and Vassar he discovered that the Vassar Music and Classics departments required on modern language and recommended two. Williams didn’t. Guess which he chose?</p>
<p>Now I think he <em>should</em> know a modern language, but he didn’t want the college dictating to him to that extent. And then he found Vassar’s pedagogy more conservative in other ways as well. He’s been very happy at Williams, and no he hasn’t taken modern languages but he has taken many Latin courses, and now he is also studying Ancient Greek. If he goes to grad school he <em>will</em> have to learn a modern language or two, but he didn’t want to spend his precious undergrad courses learning that. Instead he has taken things like a whole course on Joyce’s Ulysses.</p>
<p>The catalog can really tell you the most about the pedagogy of a school – its wording, the demands of the majors, the requirements.</p>
<p>“I wouldn’t just call Bryn Mawr suburban because there is a cute town there.”</p>
<p>Plenty of suburbs have cute downtowns. What else would it be besides suburban? The Main Line is the quintessential suburban community.</p>
<p>Correct me if I am wrong, but decades and decades ago, wasn’t Smith the clear leader in academics of the 7 sisters?</p>
<p>when did Wellesley overtake or equal Smith in this category?</p>
<p>Decades and decades ago, some might have argued that Radcliff was the academic leader…</p>
<p>2boysima, oops, forgot…yes you are correct…it was Radcliff that was considered the academic leader of the seven sisters years ago…</p>
<p>Bryn Mawr would have taken issue with that back in the day, even where Radcliffe was concerned…</p>
<p>So would Barnard. Barnard is not usually talked about in the same category because it did not begin as a residential college, but it did back in the day train more women for professions than any of the other colleges.</p>
<p>Now, most women attending Barnard find the Barnard courses more rigorous than the Columbia courses.</p>
<p>However, my suspicion is that the education is pretty comparable at all the schools ad the academic intensity of courses differs more from professor to professor than from school to school.</p>
<p>Here are my anecdotes about Wellesley and Smith, based solely on the women I know who go there.</p>
<p>I know a lot of women at Smith now. One was a shy, introspective girl in high school who has absolutely blossomed at Smith – it’s been wonderful to watch. But I agree that Smith is “in your face” about its feminism. Some of the stories I’ve heard about traditions have been quite provoking – especially the nudity/partial nudity at convocation (google it).</p>
<p>I know fewer women at Wellesley. They have highly praised the academics – haven’t had a professor or a class that hasn’t been wonderful. But the social life has been troublesome. Lots of studying. Having Boston nearby has been nice, but action on campus would be nice, too.</p>
<p>Good luck making a decision – it’s a tough one!</p>
<p>Well, not ALL of our traditions involve “dressing down” as it were, and the one that commonly does, it’s an optional thing. But I think you have to go to convocation to really get it. It’s hard to explain to people that haven’t been there.</p>
<p>If the OPs daughter is a math/science/engineering type of person, then Smith I think is the only one that has Engineering. </p>
<p>I wonder why TheDad is not here. He would have a lot of things to say about Smith - all of them very positive. His daughter was deferred EA from Yale, and then got into Wellesley and Smith among a whole host of other colleges. She chose Smith and did not regret it. Just anecdotal stuff here, I personally know only Bryn Mawr college because of it’s association with Swarthmore. BMC is pretty rigorous as well.</p>
<p>As such the OPs daughter would not go wrong choosing any one of them, imho.</p>