GPA calculation when there is a school transfer

Parents Forum
1

<p>Here is the background:</p>

<p>D2 went to one high school from 9-10th, transferred to an international school 11th grade. Her old school didn´t calculate GPA or weighted grades, they offered Honors, but no APs in 9th and 10th grade. The school actually felt their honors were just as rigorous as APs.</p>

<p>At D2´s new school, they offered APs, but not honors in 9th and 10th grade. They offered honors, IB/AP 11th and 12th grade. This school also calculates GPA and weighs honors 1.049 and APs 1.099 respectively. </p>

<p>Last year when we requested for an official transcript for D2 to apply to a summer program, they weighted D2´s honors from her old school. This year when we were getting ready to submit her transcript for college application, the school decided that D2 shouldn´t get credit for her honors in 9th and 10th grade because they didn´t offer honors 9th and 10th grade. </p>

<p>This was the conversation I had with the school (college counselor, 12th grade advisor, academic dean):
Me: "Why do you weigh grades?"
School: "We want to give students credit for taking harder courses."
Me: "Why shouldn´t D2 get credit for taking hardest courses at her old school, just like the students here?"
School: "Because we don´t offer honors, it wouldn´t be fair to our kids to give your daughter credit."
Me: "But you are giving credit to your students who took APs in 9th and 10th grade. D2 wasn´t able to take APs at her other school, only honors (and she did do a lot of extra work). We are not asking you to weigh those honors 1.099, but 1.049."</p>

<p>At the end of our conversation. people at the meeting all agreed with me, but the only person who could make the decision is the headmaster. </p>

<p>This doesn´t have as much to do with D2´s college application. Her counselor told us at the meeting that D2´s GPA is top 1% even without getting credit for honors, and she was going to write in her letter of D2´s special circumstance. At this time, her transcript and LORs have all been submitted to her ED/EA schools.</p>

<p>I have a meeting scheduled with the headmaster in a week. This has more to do with the principle of the whole thing, and the possibility of D2 getting to be the Val. The difference in GPA is .4, which is pretty substantial. </p>

<p>My question to you all is 1) are we reasonable in asking the school to weigh those honors, 2) what additional argument could we give to the headmaster, 3) should we just let it go because it is not necessary going to improve her chance in getting into colleges.</p>

2

<p>The Val/Sal competition is just rife with people fighting to find every little point within the word of the rules yet not the spirit of the rules. That being said, it is awkward when one transfers to say the least. If a student transfers, it seems like it would be fair to only count the time spent at that school in comparison to others at that school in those years. For example, the OPs DD grade 11/12 marks could be compared ONLY to everyone else’s grade 11/12 marks.</p>

3

<p>Check to see whether it actually matters at the intended target colleges and universities.</p>

<p>Some universities recalculate GPAs by their own methods to make them more comparable to each other (e.g. UC/CSU).</p>

<p>Some universities’ holistic admissions processes just involve a look at the transcript to see whether kind of grade pattern the student got in how rigorous a course load (relative to the high school’s offerings).</p>

<p>In both of the above situations, it is unlikely that the high school’s GPA calculation system matters.</p>

<p>However, some universities just accept the high school’s GPA calculation for admission or scholarships. Other indirectly accept it by using the rank in class derived from the high school’s GPA calculation (rather than requiring the high school to report rank based on a specific GPA calculation), though if she is in the top 1% either way, that probably won’t matter.</p>

4

<p>I’m a bit surprised that the international school even includes gpa from the previous school. When we were overseas there were so many kids coming and going from all different backgrounds that the school only reported grades taken at the school - you had to get a separate transcript from the previous school to submit for college applications. There was no class rank and the selection of val and sal was a holistic approach judged on gpa with difficulty of course work - this tended to favor students who had been there all four years. </p>

<p>I think you are reasonable in making the request - do the schools she applied to give scholarship money for valedictorian status?</p>

5

<p>I think in D2’s case, if she wasn’t close to top 1 or 2 of her class, it wouldn’t be as big of an issue. They gave D2 credit for honors last year when they didn’t think it mattered, but now it maybe bumping someone else off. Her college counselor and class advisor are advising us to speak with the administration because they don’t think it is fair. D2 is not looking for merit scholarship, so to have the honor of Val or Sal is not really going to matter. I am trying to decide if we should push for it, or just let it go.</p>

6

<p>

</p>

<ol>
<li> yes, you are more than reasonable, given that the difference is .4 gpa. 2. you should point out the difference .4 gpa can make in college admissions at the level at which your daughter is obviously competing. 3. I hate to say this, cuz it might open up a can of CC worms, but your daughter is a girl and she is asian and while it “might” not effect where she can get in, it also might… Normally, i’m of the “let it go” variety, but based on what you have shared on CC, this is very important to your family and should be treated accordingly.<br></li>
</ol>

<p>good luck to your daughter.</p>

<p>ETA: if the issue for the school is the VAL, but the issue for you guys is the gpa, perhaps you could simply offer to forego the val spot for the correct gpa? fwiw</p>

7

<p>if you need the information for admissions/merit consideration, get a copy of the school profile and official transcripts from school 1. Have them sent in conjunction with the information from school 2. The GC can also explain the information in the recommendation.</p>

<p>What school # 2 told you is not unusual. They are very apprehensive about giving grades or weighing courses that they do not offer as they do not want to disadvantage students who have been at the school all 4 years (or 3/3.5 years at the time they run the rankings). </p>

<p>At many schools, your daughter coming in as a junior would not be considered as part of the ranking for consideration to become Val/Sal because she would not have not been in attendance for at least 2 years when they run the rankings (usually the beginning of senior year or at the end of the 7th semester) putting the other students at a disadvantage. </p>

<p>If your daughter should be selected Val/Sal it is going to cause a big stink and there is going to be outrage from the parents of students (and the students themselves) who have been in attendance from the beginning. I think this is what the current high school wants to avoid happening.</p>

<p>Personally, I think that you should let it go or put yourself/your child in the place of the kid that you want your daughter to knock out of the box. </p>

<p>How would you feel if your daughter was in the school for 3 years and another student came in , proposed what you are proposing and it was your child who was knocked out of the box?</p>

8

<p>Unless there’s a scholarship where a Val designation is critical is involved, I’d lean towards dropping the matter regarding that title. </p>

<p>First, as some commenters above have noted, many high schools will only count kids who have attended for 3+ years. Personally, I’d find it quite odd if someone with only 2 years of history at a given high school was eligible to compete for the val/sal titles considering the angst and ill-will this would generate from kids/parents who have been there for 3+ years. More importantly, unless it is an extremely unusual high school environment…most alums won’t care or even remember who the val or sal were once the graduation ceremony is over. None of my high school classmates from my year remember the val from our class. All I recalled was that she ended up at Harvard. I only know who the sal of my HS class because he was a good friend who didn’t pay much heed to such titles. </p>

<p>One younger classmate at my urban public magnet got some grief not only because she was openly ambitious about graduating as a val, but also because she was admitted as an incoming sophomore rather than coming in as a freshman which added to the ill-will among classmates and some parents in her class. Even though she ended up graduating as a sal, it certainly didn’t hurt her admission chances considering she was admitted to a few HYPSMCs as an EA and ended up at one of them. </p>

<p>I would concentrate, however, on getting that .4 difference in GPA as that is a meaningful difference which could affect her admission chances.</p>

9

<p>Just to give an update…</p>

<p>We met with the administration twice since I posted here. Head of the school, headmaster of high school and academic dean all participated. Our message to the school was the mapping and GPA caculation need to be consistent and transparent for all students. GPA shouldn´t be changed senior year because students already came up with their college list based on their GPA.</p>

<p>After our first meeting with them, they organized numerous internal meetings with teachers, counselors, and even with some parents. They brought back ex-counselors to get their view on how it was done before and how they would like to have it done going forward. According to the headmaster, after few intense and long meetings, they decided their GPA/ranking calculations and Val/Sal selection process need to be revamped. The academic dean is going to come up with a more consistent caculation and procedure. Once it is defined and approved, they are then going to apply it to all students. We don´t know how it will turn out for D2 (better or worse), but we are glad the school has listened and are going to maybe come up with a better procedure.</p>

<p>We were told today that D2 is a legend at the school now. She is going to be the catalyst for a major change at her school. They thanked us for bringing it to their attention.</p>

10

<p>Wow. I didn’t see this thread before.</p>

<p>We had essentially exactly the same issue, but nothing like the same resolution. Our daughter got ranked 163/550 when she entered her new school, because the old school didn’t have any honors or AP courses. (The old school being a private school justly famous for its academics, that saw ALL its courses as honors courses, and that looked down on the AP curriculum as pedestrian.) The principal was sympathetic, but unwilling to change the system or (my proposal) simply not rank her because of the apples-to-oranges comparison issues.</p>

<p>He: “Don’t worry, she’ll probably be in the top 10% by the time she graduates.” [She was.]</p>

<p>Me: “I don’t care where she is when she graduates! I care where she is when she applies to college! She’ll be lucky to be in the top 20% by then, especially since you excluded her from some AP courses because she didn’t have the ‘honors’ lead-in.”</p>

<p>He felt guilty about it later . . . after she was one of four NMSs at the school, and the teachers saw the quality of her work. He offered to go to bat for her at two colleges where he had real pull, and he also ordered a reluctant GC to address the weighting/ranking issue in his letter.</p>

11

<p>I will admit that I don’t have an answer for the transfer problem, but would point out that ANY use of grades – regardless of AP/IB/honors/college prep/wood shop – at a former schools is unfair to the kids in the new school, who couldn’t take Honors wood shop for the easy A themselves. I just don’t can’t understand why a school would use another school’s grades in its own calculations. (But then I don’t agree with Val/Sal either.)</p>

12

<p>oldfort - I find it strange that the school would revamp their whole gpa/ranking methodology and then apply it to the current graduating class - I predict an uproar of complaints. You just can’t change the rules at the end of the game. Our public school district recently made some changes in their graduation honors - from a straight gpa to a combination gpa/ACT/AP distinction - but it starts when the freshman class graduates.</p>

13

<p>The administration is looking into if they should continue to weigh grades, if they should rank students, mapping of transfer students grades, how Val/Sal should be selected. Many of those changes will be applied to Juniors and below. For seniors, the only decision they will make would be if transfers will get credit for honors. This has a big impact to few transfer students who went to boarding schools, where they offered a lot of honors, but had a hard grading system. There is one student with a difference of 5 points - 87 vs 82.</p>