GPA for Univ of California (UC) - it is not, what it looks like.

Parents Forum
21

It is true that the way the capped GPA is calculated rewards students who take fewer classes. Odd, I know.

However, I think a student would be shooting themselves in the foot if they limited their HS classes to the 15 courses in the a-g requirements. Holistic review also looks a course rigor, and you aren’t going to have that with 15 total courses plus PE and health.

All the campuses, not just Berkeley and UCLA, look at a student’s transcript. So, it’s useful for all campuses to have more than 15 courses listed and more than 4 weighted courses.

22

Why can’t a good student, with excellent GPA/SAT feel like he/she deserves to be admitted to a good college? Why all this holistic BS? Students are told to put their best dress, makeup, smile, and wait until a gentlemen makes his choice. Because the gentlemen wants to pick up the right mix of blonds and brunettes, and may be some redheads, just for fun. This is the essence of the celebrated holistic approach. Somebody (nobody know his name) uses some strange criteria (not published) to select some group of students that feel right for him. Grrr…

Why can’t students feel like they did something really good (good grades, hard work, talent)? Why don’t they deserve to be recognized?

I was expecting more from Berkeley. Honestly. I thought it is a decent school that values good students.

23

BTW, can anyone explain me how students manage to get GPA above 5? I’ve seen it in a number of scatter grams.

What kind of creative accounting could generate a GPA above 5?

24

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The issue is - honesty. Would you trust a mortgage calculator that promises 3%, but changes rates arbitrarily, without even notifying you?

Berkeley published one formula, but apparently (secretly) uses another one, without disclosing it.

25

@bluebayou
Thank you very much for your reply
@b@b@bluebayou

<but the="" uc="" computer="" in="" cloud="" (oakland,="" most="" likely),="" also="" automatically="" calculates="" unweighted="" gpa="" and="" weighted="" uncapped="" gpa.="">
<all three="" gpa’s="" are="" available="" to="" the="" application="" reader="" under="" holistic="" review.="" (this="" has="" been="" true="" for="" years,="" and="" discussed="" on="" cc="" before="" can="" be="" found="">

What is How do they calculate GPAs?

  1. All 4 years or 10/11 only?
  2. Academic or subjects, including PE?
  3. High school only, or dual enrollment as well?
  4. Why all the secrecy?
26
  1. 10/11 for admissions, unless the student is asked about Augmented Review
  2. PE is not reported on the application, nor is Health, Driver’s Education and the like…so, academic only
  3. both, as well as any college courses not taken thru a DE program (the college course earns a bonus point if it is a-g)
  4. Again, it is all clearly stated on UC’s website. UC may not be transparent on a lot of things, but GPA calculations are pretty easy to read.
27

Re SculptorDad #16, yes, sorry–not being from California, I was not familiar with the terminology, and did not actually understand that Berkeley used the fully weighted GPA as well as the capped weighted GPA until the later post by StevenToCollege. But your reply (the first reply on the thread) did explain what was going on, to anyone who recognized the terminology.

It was pretty clear that californiaaa originally thought that Berkeley’s GPA statistics applied to the capped weighted GPA, which seems to be the most publicized one. The complaint was that the “average” Berkeley GPA could not be attained by a student with 5 or 6 classes per day. The earliest responses on the thread were right, of course, but they did not connect the dots to say explicitly that the GPA Berkeley lists for its entering class is not the same GPA that is advertised most extensively for admissions purposes. I think it was totally legitimate for californiaaa to find this unclear.

28

@californiaa, why can’t a good candidate with good grades, hard work, and talent, feel like they deserve to be hired by McK/GS/whatever?

In any case, from what people say, it seems like Cal makes it clear that they evaluate holistically and don’t just rely on the UC GPA, so I fail to see the dishonesty here.

29

From the UC website;

How applications are reviewed

As we consider each individual application - and rest assured, we do consider each one - we look beyond grades and test scores.

We spend time evaluating your academic achievements in light of the opportunities available to you and your demonstrated capacity to contribute to the intellectual life at UC. The 14 factors we weigh are:

Academic grade point average in all completed “a-g” courses, including additional points for completed UC-certified honors courses.

Scores on the following tests: ACT with Writing or the SAT Reasoning Test.

Number of, content of and performance in academic courses beyond the minimum “a-g” requirements.

Number of and performance in UC-approved honors, Advanced Placement, International Baccalaureate Higher Level and transferable college courses.

Identification by UC as being ranked in the top 9 percent of your high school class at the end of your junior year (Eligible in the Local Context, or ELC).

Quality of your senior-year program as measured by the type and number of academic courses in progress or planned

Quality of your academic performance relative to the educational opportunities available in your high school.

Outstanding performance in one or more specific subject areas.
Outstanding work in one or more special projects in any academic field of study.

Recent, marked improvement in academic performance as demonstrated by academic GPA and the quality of coursework completed or in progress.

Special talents, achievements and awards in a particular field, such as visual and performing arts, communication or athletic endeavors; special skills, such as demonstrated written and oral proficiency in other languages; special interests, such as intensive study and exploration of other cultures; experiences that demonstrate unusual promise for leadership, such as significant community service or significant participation in student government; or other significant experiences or achievements that demonstrate the student’s promise for contributing to the intellectual vitality of a campus.
Completion of special projects undertaken in the context of your high school curriculum or in conjunction with special school events, projects or programs.

Academic accomplishments in light of your life experiences and special circumstances, including but not limited to: disabilities, low family income, first generation to attend college, need to work, disadvantaged social or educational environment, difficult personal and family situations or circumstances, refugee status or veteran status.

Location of your secondary school and residence.

Pretty clear about what they are looking for in an applicant. The unknown is how the Adcoms perceive all this information and make their decisions. Everyone is human with different perspectives.

30

californiaaa, until the day comes when colleges admissions decisions are made by computer, like they are in China, rather than by humans, the process will be holistic.
It is what it is…
And that does not make it dishonest.

31

BTW, UK unis may be more to your taste. Oxbridge and LSE are still holistic in the sense that no scores guarantee you admissions (at Oxbridge, scores just get you an interview, and then you have to impress the faculty grilling you). LSE doesn’t care much about an interview, so they must rely on the personal statement and extracurriculars.

At any other UK uni (including Imperial), enough 5’s in the right AP’s very likely gets an American admitted.

32

Or apply to college in a country where admissions are done strictly by test scores and gpa cut-offs. Or- have your special snowflake be like every other HS kid in America and have to balance “where can I get admitted” with “what can my parents afford” AND “how prestigious/does this college meet my needs”.

Like everyone else. Your kid is at zero disadvantage vs. everyone else- that’s how the system works for everyone. It’s not as though there’s a subset of HS kids who don’t have to worry about any of this.

33

Oh, and McGill/Toronto/UBC are also very numbers/rules-based.

Waterloo’s most famous programs admit holistically, though, as they have too many outstanding applicants for too few spots.

34

@californiaaa
What is unclear to one - capped, uncapped, unweighted - is totally understandable.
But I don’t think it’s fair to blame UC for being dishonest or secretive for that matter.
Accept that the system is more complex than your taste, your lack of experience and knowledge, and move on.
Take it as a learning experience as we all do.
This won’t be your last.

35

They absolutely do deserve to be recognized but with UCLA receiving 97K+ freshman applications for incoming class, UCSD 84K+, UCB 82K+, UCI 77k+…, etc. Imagine yourself as a member of an admission office with only so much space in dorms, classrooms, etc. Hard decisions have to be made, many excellent students get left out.

36

@ucbalumnus Your thoughts?

@californiaaa I am not sure I understand your horror at this. Cal and UCLA are amongst the most highly competitive schools in the country. They want a balance of kid with excellent GPAs and “other”. And they have plenty of applicants from which to choose.

If you don’t like their admissions process, then apply elsewhere. The reality is…these two schools are not a slam dunk for even tippy top students.

37

Please STOP with the conspiracy theories. The GPA for UC’s admissions is clearly stated on their webpage, which I pointed out earlier and even provided a link. By the way, in the time that you continue to post on this thread, you could search cc – as I suggested earlier – and you will find plenty of posts from knowledgeable posters that will say the same thing.

I’m sorry that it does not support your theory, but that dog won’t hunt (as my dad used to say).

High schools can grade/rank anyway they see fit, including giving honors to PE classes. Some high schools have a 5.0 scale, or a 6.0 scale.

38

“In other words, dear students who take 6 periods per year - you are not likely to be admitted to Berkeley, no matter what grades you have and what APs you take. Lucky students, who managed to convince their high schools to let them take only 4 periods - how did you manage to do it?” Yes, this is why there is really no objective way to assess students, because we don’t have uniform national curriculum requirements. I would be looking at your kid and asking, how did you get away with taking only 6 courses per year when ours take 7 or 8?

" I mean, I am open to any suggestions. What are the magic words? " You’ve heard them before, I think. The magic words are holistic admissions. It’s a recognition that there is no objective way to assess candidates. The admissions officers do the best they can to identify the most promising students based on the imperfect information they have.

39

It’s so unfair that there are no magic words to get you into one of a handful of schools you have deemed “good”!

Posters have repeatedly given you names of many excellent schools that are not Ivy-plus-UCB-plus-Berkeley. You have repeatedly dismissed them because “you’ve never heard of them,” which is meaningless. So guess what - tired of hearing the whining that certain schools don’t have iron-clad guarantees. Life doesn’t have iron-clad guarantees.

40

In any case, it’s not as if there are no options even if you want an iron-clad guarantee.

Be in the top 1% by the criteria looked at by McGill/Toronto/UBC, or Trinity College Dublin, or by any UK uni besides Oxbridge and LSE (or even just meet the bare requirements detailed for various subjects/schools at those places), and you’re almost guaranteed to be in if you’re an American paying international rates.

I’d be surprised if UW-Madison denied an applicant who is top 1% by all numbers as well.

So I really don’t understand why all the angst and anger.