<p>How do the ivy league schools compare in terms of difficulty of attanining good grades. Is it easier to do better at Penn or Columbia, for example? Does anybody know enough about this to "rank" the difficulty of the ivies?</p>
<p>^there more or less the same, all graded with respect to competition, grad schools and employers have a good idea of what the gpa means. So for example if harvard has grade inflation, then a 3.8 there might not be a 3.8 elsewhere, so they adjust for that, but then they'd also adjust for the level of students at harvard, which should be higher than most places. Princeton is known to be very academic with hard working kids. columbia is known to be quite demanding with all the core requirements, harvard is known for grade inflation (but perhaps not anymore), brown is known to be laid back and VERY flexible with major requrements (no requirements), cornell is supposed to be a pressure cooker (engineering at least), not sure about Dart, the ivy league light bulb joke for penn goes:</p>
<p>how many students does it take to change a light bulb?
ans: 1 but he gets 8 credits for it.</p>
<p>i'm pretty sure the market is close to efficient, i.e. whereever you go, you aren't really at a disadvantage or advantage in terms of recognition of your gpa. in general you'll need a higher gpa at an easier school (inflation adjusted).</p>
<p>Columbia's CC inflation HUGE. Most classes are curved to a B/B+. My chinese teacher has never given out anything lower than an A-. My Calc 3 class is anything above an 85 is an A. Etc. etc.</p>
<p>I assume Penn is somewhere around there except it has nearly TWICE the number of students per grade so competition may be stiffer. </p>
<p>Wharton, Columbia SEAS, Penn SEAS, however, are a completeyl different story (i.e grade deflation on par with Cornell/Princeton)</p>
<p>classes curved to a B are the norm. intro-level classes will be curved lower to weed out those who aren't that interested. higher level classes will be curved higher because more students are better at it.</p>
<p>National</a> Trends in Grade Inflation, American Colleges and Universities has some stats on various universities.</p>
<p>I don't agree that CC inflation is especially huge. It really depends on the individual class. Some Calc classes are curved so that a test above a 40 is a B+ but that could also be a testament to how impossibly hard the class is. It's not unheard of at other schools to have similar practices especially in since- I don't think it means that there is inflation but that the classes are so difficult/test grades are so low that grades are adjusted accordingly. With that said, I have not found the Core to be particularly challenging so far, grade-wise, but others might disagree.</p>
<p>truanzn is lucky. My classes have tough curves. In one intro class, I need a 99 to get an A+, that's a little rough tbh. UW is also pretty tough... Getting an A- means that you're a damn good writer, you can pretty much forget about getting a straight A in that class. Although my calc III class is pretty dumb, my teacher won't give us a curve. So you see, it all depends on which teachers you get. I don't feel like they throw As at me. However, I have to admit that getting a B is a joke in most classes. You almost don't have to do anything and you can still pull off at least a B-. Towards the top though, teachers get a bit picky. </p>
<p>In the end though, who cares? Recruiters will usually be alumni of your school and they will know how competitive your grades are, so don't worry about that.</p>
<p>
[quote]
How do the ivy league schools compare in terms of difficulty of attanining good grades. Is it easier to do better at Penn or Columbia, for example? Does anybody know enough about this to "rank" the difficulty of the ivies?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It doesn't matter. You're likely not going to get into more than maybe 2-3 Ivies even if you're amazing (just because they all want different things). And you're not going to choose schools based on this.</p>
<p>
[quote]
classes curved to a B are the norm. intro-level classes will be curved lower to weed out those who aren't that interested. higher level classes will be curved higher because more students are better at it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You're right about the intro vs. higher level class. But I think the norm is more like B+ rather than B, though. The median/mean GPA is way about 3.0. And a B curve would mean a large chunk of people would be getting B-'s and C's. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Some Calc classes are curved so that a test above a 40 is a B+ but that could also be a testament to how impossibly hard the class is.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think I got 17% on one of my organic chem midterms.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Wharton, Columbia SEAS, Penn SEAS, however, are a completeyl different story (i.e grade deflation on par with Cornell/Princeton)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Is SEAS really that difficult?
Since most courses are quantitative I thought it'd be a tad easier than say humanities courses at CC, since they're more subjective at grading. Wouldn't it be easier to get an "A" in courses such as math and science, since they are graded objectively?</p>
<p>
[quote]
truanzn is lucky. My classes have tough curves. In one intro class, I need a 99 to get an A+, that's a little rough tbh. UW is also pretty tough... Getting an A- means that you're a damn good writer, you can pretty much forget about getting a straight A in that class. Although my calc III class is pretty dumb, my teacher won't give us a curve. So you see, it all depends on which teachers you get. I don't feel like they throw As at me. However, I have to admit that getting a B is a joke in most classes. You almost don't have to do anything and you can still pull off at least a B-. Towards the top though, teachers get a bit picky.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Is UW undergrad writing? Isn't that part of the Core? Sheesh, never knew that Core courses would be that difficult. What other courses did you find that were hard to get an A+ in?</p>
<p>"Is SEAS really that difficult?
Since most courses are quantitative I thought it'd be a tad easier than say humanities courses at CC, since they're more subjective at grading. Wouldn't it be easier to get an "A" in courses such as math and science, since they are graded objectively?"</p>
<p>everything is relative to the competition, the subjectivity of the humanity classes tends towards an aversion of objective grading, so to keep students happy teachers grade easily, that way they get better reviews and more students enroll with them the following year. Also humanity classes are grades with less of a spread of letter grades, so very few A+s very few Cs. objectivity is maintained in the seas classes at all times, and if the competition is tough and the exams easy you will suffer for not being a perfectionist.</p>
<p>"Is UW undergrad writing? Isn't that part of the Core? Sheesh, never knew that Core courses would be that difficult. What other courses did you find that were hard to get an A+ in?"</p>
<p>in my experience UW (university writing) is curved to a B+ (mean) A- (median), almost noone gets an A+ in anything, some people do manage a GPA of just over 4.0, because they work that hard and are that smart. the GPA is meant to remain on a 4.0 scale, so dishing out A+ like candy is probably forbidden and distorts the system in place. An A is possible to come by in almost all classes. core classes especially have a small range of grades that are given out, B-->A generally.</p>
<p>
[quote]
in my experience UW (university writing) is curved to a B+ (mean) A- (median), almost noone gets an A+ in anything, some people do manage a GPA of just over 4.0, because they work that hard and are that smart. the GPA is meant to remain on a 4.0 scale, so dishing out A+ like candy is probably forbidden and distorts the system in place. An A is possible to come by in almost all classes. core classes especially have a small range of grades that are given out, B-->A generally.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Ahhh I see. Just looked up the CU gpa system. Yeah it would be messed to hand out A+ like candy.</p>
<p>Grade Equivalent
A+ 4.33
A 4.00
A- 3.67
B+ 3.33
B 3.00
B- 2.67
C+ 2.33
C 2.00
C- 1.67
D+ 1.33
D 1.00
D- 0.67
F 0.00</p>
<p>Source: University</a> Registrar : Calculating GPA</p>
<p>So for SEAS, how bad is the curve?
How many As for some engineering courses? Is it around 10-20% percent of the class?</p>
<p>general rule of thumb is 20-30% get As and A-s</p>
<p>An A+ in UW? Keep dreaming. We got a grading sheet from our teacher and it stopped at a straight A. I was told that if a UW teacher wants to give an A+, he'd have to send in a petition. Most people who won awards in HS for writing, were EIC, etc. end up with an A-. If your a brilliant writer and get lucky, you might get an A, especially if you use the revision policy. You're allowed to revise each of your essays, which can yield a better grade. </p>
<p>It's much easier to get a straight A in Lit Hum. I'd say if you read all the works and pay attention, you should be able to get an A-. If you can write, too, you should be able to get an A.</p>
<p>I got these grades in UW essays: </p>
<p>C+(B-)
B
A (A-)
A. </p>
<p>I also got A- in some other assignment. Ended up with B+ = ~3.33</p>
<p>*Those parentheses mean I was borderline. </p>
<p>Tough class overall. I thought I was an eksellent rider. Or at list good enough.</p>
<p>if there's one thing to like about columbia, it's standards. sure, there may be grade inflation, but the professors know the difference between being great in your high school and being great objectively. they push you. they may reward you with an A- at the end of the day, but in the interim they usually put the fear of god into you.</p>
<p>Tell me about it. Before we got back our 1st essay, our teacher held a speech about how getting good grades in college will be much harder than in HS. Some people who got Bs almost started crying.</p>
<p>Grade inflation is there in most private schools. Private schools typically curve higher, regardless of whether the school is an Ivy or not.</p>
<p>Look at your high school as objectively as you're able to.</p>
<p>My friends and I from top prep schools (Andover, etc.) or top urban (not suburban) high schools do well here. The core is/was cake. I'm doing way better in college than I did in high school, with less effort to boot. I say this in part because I get off on bragging on anonymous internet discussion boards; also, to give some perspective.</p>
<p>But, if you were valedictorian at a non-competitive high school, you should worry a little about how that success will translate to college.</p>
<p>I'd add elite suburban high schools to that mix. in the boston area, for example, newton, brookline, lexington, weston, etc, are all extraordinarily good preparation for the intensity of a place like columbia. The same is not true for the vast majority of suburban high schools, but there are definitely more than a handful. After going to such a school, I too found Columbia to be much less stress and easier to do well at.</p>
<p>Of course, you're also more grown up by the time you're in college, so that helps. but i'd share your concerns for non-elite high schools: if you're the best student in your class, you have no idea how good you are. danger danger.</p>
<p>Do they round up GPA at columbia?</p>
<p>Like if i had a 3.5899, would that be a 3.6</p>
<p>slash Dean's list :)</p>