<p>Ok, so having recently discovered that Brown does not calculate GPAs, I feel that this a turn-off. </p>
<p>Who thinks otherwise? Who agrees? Isn’t this necessary to award the M.C.Laude, and for grad school admissions? What, in your opinion, would be the pros and cons of this method?</p>
<p>Basically I am feeling conflicted (as to deciding my ED school, as Brown used to be “omg#1omg<33.”) Just looking for other people’s points of view on this matter, any opinions/insights would be much appreciated! :)</p>
<p>I think the idea is, if you're smart enough to get into Brown, you're smart enough to do well within the school. Brown is truly a university of intellectual freedom, and I don't think not having grades is going to hurt (or not being M.C. Laude for that matter). After all, many people before us have done fine getting a degree from Brown with no actual GPA. As for grad school admissions, I'm an Econ major and Brown's site says nearly 100% of students that went on to grad school got into one of their top 3 choices - so I don't think it's going to hurt.</p>
<p>Before I say anything.. I was torn between another [gpa-giving] school and Brown, and ultimately chose the former. So while I cant and wont try to elaborate on how the no-GPA thing works, I can relate to the feelings that you are having as a prospective.</p>
<p>The no core, pass-fail, no grades-if-you-dont-want-them thing was a point of concern for me too. Sure it sounds great on the exterior, but I wasn't sure I wanted to go to the complete other end of the spectrum. In HS, I liked how our curriculum worked, and the GPA system likewise. No, it didnt foster competition (like open curriculum advocates may champion), but rather, it just allowed everyone to track their progress (to be general. and cheesy. and crap im tired).</p>
<p>You get the idea. But talk to current students--they know best.
(And probably refrain from mindless, late night mumblejumble).</p>
<p>What is it that is a turn-off to you? I'm not trying to say it's not reasonable to be turned off, but I'm curious what your particular reasons are.</p>
<p>And Magna Cum Laude is not calculated by GPA per se. They count your told number of As and S-with-distinction (very rare) and divide it by the number of semesters you are at Brown, times four, to basically get your average number of A's per semester without penalizing for people who take more than 4 classes per semester. That's not technically GPA, and it's an extremely flawed system... which is why Manga is really not a big deal at all here. It's just a star by your name on the Graduation program.</p>
<p>See other recent threads about departmental honors and GPA within concentration, etc.</p>
<p>I agree with you, 2o_o7. I like the structure a GPA system provides, as well as the competition it tends to foster. I'm also highly motivated by test scores and class rank. Then again, I'm not surrounded by Ivy League geniuses at this point in my life. Maybe I only like the game when I can win it.</p>
<p>Why would anyone want to play such a flawed game in the first place? </p>
<p>It's bad enough in high school where students take nearly the same courses with the same teachers. In college the GPA game adds a variety of majors, add/drop possibilities, and grading policies. It rewards students who stay within their areas of expertise, take easy classes, take classes from easy-A profs, and avoid new or challenging areas.</p>
<p>Furthermore, I enjoy competition, but having a classmate tattooed with a "C" or "D" didn't add validation to my "A". Let them take the class Pass/Fail. And I certainly didn't need a class ranking for grad school or work. </p>
<p>Brown has it right: give the honors primarily on a departmental basis.</p>
<p>Well, by nature I tend to be competitive...I dunno, something about the GPA is just so concrete, and I like that definite-ness. It is nice, sometimes, to see just where you fall. I just havent been able to decide how important this is to me. However, the main reason for my attraction to Brown is that it encourages an intellectual freedom and 'learning for the sake of learning' environment that closely aligns with my own beliefs. So I am a girl of contradiction basically...I like the reinforcement and structure of the GPA system, but value the freedom to do whatever you want without fear of consequences.</p>
<p>Lunar: I think we are the same person. I am motivated in the same way, and also and unsure of how I would respond in an environment where the majority of my peers are as smart and smarter than I. I'm currently in a small pond situation.</p>
<p>Tactics: You raise a great point. My HS is non ranking, with a very standard/fair GPA system. Reading some other CC member's outlandish GPA system woes makes me realize that I sure wouldn't want to have to deal with that. I suppose that for grad. admissions they just see a transcript anyways.</p>
<p>2o_07 -- if you are extremely competitive and see GPA as "concrete" and a "definite" measure of "where you fall," then Brown might not be a good fit for you. It's possible that, once you come here, you will change your mind or see the value in our system, and it'll become a great place for you. But it's also entirely possible that your way of looking at academics and your way of motivating yourself and measuring your performance just doesn't mesh with the academic climate here, in which case you would probably be better off somewhere else. That's not a negative judgement on you in any way -- everyone has their own learning style and their on academic philosophy. I'm just suggesting that Brown might not be right for you.</p>
<p>tactics -- this is absolutely true -- GPA in college is even less of a good comparative measure than in high school. Different departments (and different profs within a department or even within sections of the same class) have different grading standards, different students take different kinds of classes, some classes are graded on a curve (which is good to compare yourself to others in the class but not a good measure of what you're actually learning), etc. At Brown, I play the game with myself -- I have found out, being at Brown, that my motivation is almost entirely internal. Even if I know I'm going to get an A in a class and don't have to work hard on the final paper / exam, I still study and work hard for myself, rather than for the grade. Not everyone does this, to be sure, but I imagine this would be more common at Brown than at other schools.</p>
<p>I definitely would not classify myself as 'extremely competitive,' as much as I would say that friendly and good natured competition is a nice stimulus for me to have. Good natured is the key point, as I find this helpful, and healthy, for me to have. Actually, I sometimes tend to create it on my own, but not in an overbearing or intense manner. Is this sort of competitiveness frowned upon at Brown?</p>
<p>I recognize that that Brown students are, for the most part, internally driven. Would you say, given your experience, that there is any external stimulus provided by the academic environment or your peers? Or is that a stupid question, I don't know. </p>
<p>See, having only one HS experience to look back on, I can't even really determine my true 'learning style and academic philosophy.' College is getting me into "ahh I don't know myself" crisis mode x_x I really, really appreciate all of these comments, as they are (dare I say it?) super (why yes, I do) helpful. :)</p>
<p>I'd say the external stimulus for me from peers has been less driven by competition and more by inspiration and help. Seeing my classmates working hard and being brilliant inspires me to work hard myself, not necessarily to be "as good" or "better," but to get the most out of the college experience. Also, having bright, hardworking classmates stimulates me to succeed, because I know that there will always be someone down the hall who can help me with an econ problem, or someone next door who will let me bounce ideas off of them for my next paper.</p>
<p>Also, having great professors motivates me to succeed. Getting back constructive and positive feedback on a paper makes me want to do even better on the next one. Having a prof actually listen to my ideas in a discussion section motivates me to do the reading and think hard about it. Knowing that I'm always welcome at office hours motivates me to seek out help if I'm having trouble with a concept or assignment. Of course, I want a good grade from them... but I think with the best professors, it goes beyond that.</p>
<p>That said, some people certainly are more competitive than I am. It's also possible that, once you've (not you, but anyone...) settled into a certain department and get used to seeing the same kids in your classes again and again, you're more likely to become more competitive with them (in a friendly way). I haven't experienced this yet, so I don't know what my reaction will be.</p>
<p>Thank you so much! Spending all day reading these posts, as well as Brown's student reviews on another web site and browsing mocha... I think I'm in love. This thread has helped my get over my initial apprehensions about this whole GPA thing, and now I realize that it would be a blessing when it comes to med school admissions. Thank you for your (repeatedly) thoughtful posts. It is so helpful to get personal testimony, as classmates and professors are the two most important things in any university, and are not subject to quantitative rankings.</p>
<p>I suppose I sound pretty fickle...but I think I came off as a little more...intense? than I wanted. Brown has always been #1, more or less, just got thrown a bit.</p>