GPA vs SAT vs EC's vs Essay vs Interview

Applying to College
1

<p>Which one is the most important? Or do they look at the components as a whole?</p>

<p>Do colleges have a GPA cut-off point? If so, I am done for.</p>

<p>Additionally, I would like to argue that grades are not a fair evaluation for colleges. (I'm not saying this to excuse my bad grades. Bad grades are my fault.) There are too many people I know who cheat their way to A's, but receive 1450's-1600's on their SAT's.</p>

<p>Also, just how important are EC's? Are they a major deciding factor or just something that is considered?</p>

<p>Can an essay or an interview make it or break it?</p>

<p>Thanks for any input!</p>

2

<p>This depends on each college. Top colleges take a hollistic approach to reading applications, meaning that they try to look at each aspect of the application (what you listed) and create a view of who you are. All those factors play a role, although most colleges indicate that the transcript is the most important (but the transcript alone will not get you admitted). </p>

<p>Search the colleges you are interested in on collegeboard.org and visit the admissions tab. Each college indicates in a simple list which factors are “very important,” “important,” and “considered.” If you visit the website of the colleges, usually their admissions site will tell prospective students about cut-offs. Top private colleges usually don’t have cut-offs, but the lower your stats are, the more impressive other parts of the application has to be in order to remain as competitive as other applicants. There are over 3,000 colleges in the United States, and the ones your are asking about only represent less than 20% of all colleges. You have plenty of options, so don’t limit yourself to the top 25 colleges. </p>

<p>I can relate when you mention the students who cheat their way to A’s but get low standardized test scores. Top 20’s would probably frown upon this, as this does cause suspicion. Grades aren’t everything, and for most top privates, there is no GPA cutoff (UC’s are different, however). </p>

<p>With the top colleges, because most applicants are equally qualified academically, colleges have to put more weight on extra-curriculars in order to distinguish one candidate from another. For top 10’s, ECs are definitely a major deciding factor since almost all of their applicants have the best grades and amazing test scores. Although, on the collegeboard website for each college, the admissions department does indicate how important extra-curriculars are in the process (Stanford=very important, Pace University=considered). </p>

<p>Colleges whose average applicants don’t have 2200+ and 4.3 GPAs will put less weight on extra-curriculars because their applicants are already diverse academically. </p>

<p>An essay can definitely make it or break it. Some colleges even say that low grades can be made up for with a stellar essay. On the other hand, a badly-written essay that shows little insight and lacks in voice and smooth style can definitely ruin chances at a top college.</p>

<p>The reason there are no gpa cutoffs for the tippy top colleges is because they understand that each high school has different standards which are subjective, therefore affecting each student’s performance. They also know that some students cheat and that some situations can affect a student’s performance in school. That is why standardized test scores were made; they are apparently better indicators of a student’s whateveryouwannacallit (intelligence/smarts/knowledge/etc).</p>

3

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<p>Truer words were never spoken.</p>

<p>My D’s GPA freshman year at small, rural, crappy HS: 3.8, with maybe 4-5 hours a week spent on homework.</p>

<p>Same D’s sophomore+junior GPA at selective enrollment, residential math and science HS: 2.5, with maybe 25-30 hours a week spent on homework.</p>

<p>At which school do you think she learned more?</p>

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<p>"That is why standardized test scores were made; they are apparently better indicators of a student’s whateveryouwannacallit (intelligence/smarts/knowledge/etc). "</p>

<p>/money</p>

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<p>Thanks for your comments!</p>

<p>I’m relieved that there is no GPA cutoff.</p>

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<p>You should check your school’s naviance. It will show what matters. At our school the high GPA kids got into a lot of selective schools. There was one anomaly high SAT and lowish GPA, this student was rejected everywhere.</p>

7

<p>Don’t slack off on any of them. But whatever you do, aim for the highest GPA and standardized test scores that you can achieve. The importance of EC’s vary from college to college. For most colleges, however, EC’s are brought into play mainly when “push comes to shove”. By which I mean, you have two academically proficient students, but don’t have a lot of room to admit too many more applicants. The EC’s will be used to choose one student over the other.</p>

<p>On the collegeboard website, admission factors that are rated as “very important” are those that potential applicants should put the most effort into. Those that are rated as “important” are those that are brought into play when push comes to shove. Those that are rated as “considered” are factors for when they’re really having a dilemma on whether to admit you or not. “Considered” factors are there to tip the balance.</p>

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<p>The top schools use holistic admissions, meaning that no one factor is considered without the others or without context.</p>

9

<p>GPA and class rank tell where you stand in your school. SATs kind of just show how good you are at taking standardized tests and maybe validate your GPA, or show that your school is rigorous (if you have a below average GPA but still good class rank and test scores, for example).</p>

<p>If your numbers seem to indicate that you are capable of handling the college’s workload, then you will have to prove that you are interesting with your ECs and essays (and that you are a good fit for the school). Or make up for low numbers or prove that you aren’t a robot.</p>

<p>Interview usually isn’t hugely important unless it is very bad or very good, and even then it may not tip the scales either way. Can be a positive factor if the school tracks interest.</p>

10

<p>There is NO way that anybody in high school has 30 hours of homework to do. Honestly, if a kid spends 30 hours a week on homework, he or she is definitely not using his/her time effectively.</p>

11

<p>Well, I guess you know more about my D’s school and her study habits than I do. What I know is that first semester she took 7 academic classes, including 2 science classes (organic chemistry and evolutionary biology), 2 math classes (precalc and discrete math), a history of religions course with 1200+ pages of reading and two 20-page papers, plus English and German. Second semester she slacked off and only took 1 math class. Next semester she’s back to 7 classes, including 2 math classes and 2 languages (3rd year German, 1st year Russian) plus molecular and cellular biology. She is very disciplined - 5 nights a week she studies from 7-11, takes Saturday off, and spends most of Sunday studying.</p>

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<p>Mine spent about 25-30 hours a week for homework. An AP class has about 2 hours of homework each night.</p>

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<p>30 hours of homework a week isn’t that unusual. If you spend 10 hours between Saturday and Sunday, then that’s 4 hours spent each weekday. With 6-7 rigorous classes you could easily spend 4 hours a night and then deal with larger assignments on the weekend.</p>

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<p>It obviously varies by school and their is no exact way to measure this but in my opinion large schools view your criteria like this: GPA > SAT’s > EC’s > Essays > Interview. Some smaller, more selective schools may look at it like this: GPA> Essays > EC’s > SAT’s > Interview. Again, there is no concrete method, this is just the impression I get.</p>

15

<p>Look at each school’s Common Data Set, section C7. It tells you what factors are used in admission and the importance of each. Most flagship Us only consider ECs, some don’t even consider them.</p>

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<p>“GPA > SAT’s > EC’s > Essays > Interview”
For some schools, the interview is much more important. depends really on where you apply</p>

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<p>OK, so judging from the posts, I can come to a general consensus that GPA is of utmost importance.</p>

<p>Kids in ALL academic (non honors/AP) now have a higher GPA than mine. This makes me even madder at myself. Well, what can I do to alleviate my blunder?</p>

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<p>^ Do they have a higher rank?</p>

<p>In any case, if both you and one of those kids applies to the same school, you would probably have better “grades” for having a more challenging schedule.</p>

19

<p>The transcript is probably the most important factor. The transcript provides a list of the classes you took, showing colleges how hard your schedule was, and the grades you got in them. If you take hard classes and get good grades, that is desirable. However, some schools are just simply easier than others, so a high SAT is important for supporting a high GPA. High GPA, low SAT indicates grade inflation or poor test-taking skills, while the reverse indicates either challenging coursework or a poor work ethic.</p>

<p>ECs and essays can be very important at some schools and far less important at others. For example, LACs generally care more about ECs and essays than most universities, which are often preoccupied with numbers. (Some universities don’t even ask for essays or ECs.) Even within those schools that want ECs and essays, their importance varies; the University of Chicago, for example, supposedly values essays more than some other similar schools.</p>

<p>You forgot letters of recommendation, but those are important too, both as testimonials to your work ethic and as character references – colleges don’t want slackers, and they want people who will fit into their communities. Interviews usually perform a similar function, i.e. showing the college that you’re fairly adept at conversing, that you’re mature, and that you’d be a good fit for their college.</p>

<p>So there you have it (my conception of it, anyway).</p>

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<p>For all but the top tier schools it is a numbers game. If you have the SAt & grades you are in. At the top tier of colleges the “holistic” approach wants to see: 1) academic rigor. Did you take the most challanging courses, which shows intellectual curiosity. 2) Your grades in those courses reflect work habits. 3) SAT / ACT scores show potential for learning (proffs teach to the norm, if you are sitting in classes where the average SAT is 200 pts. higher than yours, you are going to struggle) 4) EC’s that reflect leadership, committment, & excellence 5) Essays & letters of rec. reveal the quaility of person you are & how others view you.</p>