My D2 (college junior) has decided she is going to apply to grad school (PhD programs) in physics (her major). I know a lot about undergrad admissions, but pretty much zero about PhD programs. One specific thing that is not clear to me is how visits & interviews work. Can someone help me understand the timing & logistics of this part of the process? Thanks!
My graduate student and teaching experience is in Humanities, not Science, but maybe I can help get the ball rolling for you and I hope others in Science jump in. Early visits are informational both ways; the student can get a better idea of what the faculty, with whom they will be working closely, are like, and the faculty can find out the research interests of the student. Each side is looking for a fit. In Grad School, even though one technically applies to a school within the university, admissions decisions are largely made at the departmental level. After a visit, the student is no longer a stranger, and they may have a clearer idea of what kind of work they could do in that particular department, as well as expectations such as working as a teaching assistant, etc. It is also going to be a lot easier to write a statement of purpose that targets the particulars of the visited school and dept. Hope this helps.
So this sounds like visiting before applying (that is how unclear I am on this). My kid has been advised by older students to wait until end of jr. year to try to zero in on schools, as they say you want to get through more undergrad coursework before trying to decide where to focus PhD research interests. But that leaves a short window for visiting, as apps seem to be due by Dec. And some grad program websites indicate that applying early (so Sept/Oct) is good.
I assume students email the profs at the programs they are interested in and just arrange interviews directly if they are going to campus? I thought I saw something about being invited to interview on another thread out here, and wasn’t sure what that means.
Sorry to be asking such basic questions. If anyone has recommendations of a book or other resource that answers this kind of question, I would welcome it.
I’m in the social sciences.
By my knowledge and experience, few PhD applicants conduct visits prior to admission the way that they would in undergrad admissions. At this point, it’s kind of a waste of time and money. A visit might be useful if the student lives nearby or is nearby for another reason (like a summer program or something), but I wouldn’t schedule visits pre-application if they involve a flight and lots of money. I visited one of my top programs before applying, but I lived in the same city and only had to drive there. Most of the students present were attending college in the immediate area.
Instead, what many students do is contact a few professors ahead of time to gauge interest and see if they are accepting doctoral students that year. Students usually do this via email. Also, first check the website; sometimes this information is listed there.
Where visits and interviews usually enter the picture is a post-application step along the admissions route. Programs that do interviews usually review applications sometime in December or January, and winnow the slate of applicants by doing preliminary reviews on GPA, GRE scores, research fit, statement of purpose, etc. - basically, a holistic look. They identify the students they think might be promising, and they invite those applicants to come interview at the program. Interview events are usually 1-2 days; you spend some time getting formal interviews by a few professors as well as touring campus, visiting labs, and talking to current graduate students. In my department, we threw a party for prospective students to meet all of us in a more informal atmosphere. (Don’t be fooled, though - you’re still being evaluated, and should comport yourself accordingly.) In my experience, interview costs are usually covered. The program pays for airfare and lodging. You may share a hotel room with other interviewees, or you may be housed with current graduate students who volunteer their space for a few days.
How many applicants are invited to interview depends on the program. In my program, we usually invited twice as many as we planned to admit. I think most programs stay around that range - maybe 2-3 times as many. It’s expensive.
Most PhD hopefuls who don’t interview for whatever reason (some programs don’t do it) visit programs after they’ve been admitted. They may spend 1-2 days on campus chatting with potential PIs, visiting labs, chatting with current graduate students and getting to know the city. In many cases, the department can bear some or all of the cost of the visit, or at least assist you with making those plans (like helping you find a grad student to stay with). My program did not interview me at the time that I applied, so I made one of these post-acceptance visits to my other top choice school. I stayed with a graduate student and got support for airfare and other expenses from my home department.
The tl;dr version:
-Your D probably shouldn’t worry about visits now.
-If you guys have lots of $$$ to burn, she can consider visiting a few top departments in the spring or fall 2016, but it’s not necessary at all.
-Many programs interview PhD applicants, so she’ll get a chance to visit sometime in January or February most likely.
-If she doesn’t, the best time to visit is probably post-acceptance, when she’s making a decision between a few programs.
Lots of $$$ to burn… ha, ha. Nope. Okay, this helps, and eases my mind. I think she is going to a couple of Physics conferences during junior year, so I will also suggest she keep a look out there for profs doing research she is interested in and talk with them.
Congratulations to D2! We can use more women in physics. @juillet is correct. Visits are only important post-admission. Before she applies, she needs to make sure she takes the Physics GRE because some programs require it (others do not). Hopefully, she is taking the full year Quantum sequence this year because that will help the GRE. There are two tests dates, in April and in October. I always advise my students to take it in April of their Junior year and take it again in the Fall if they are not happy with their score. The second thing is to get research experience this year at her university so that she can ask for a good personalized letter of recommendation.
Going to conferences is good and she can see what interests her but I have found that physics students often change their idea about what to do in their graduate research so she should not narrow her choices solely to those areas which interest her now. There is nothing wrong with being open minded as to research field in her graduate application.
She is planning on taking the Physics GRE, but will not have the full quantum sequence before attempting it the first time (or even the second time). As you suggest, she is going to take in April, and take again in the fall if she isn’t happy with her first score. She also needs to take the regular GRE, and is planning on that after winter break (so Jan/Feb)… She is frustrated at how infrequently the subject test is offered and the limited locations. There appear to be April, September, and October dates for it from what she can tell on the GRE site.
She has been researching in CS (data storage research, thought CS was her major, and has a couple of solid summers already under her belt there, with an upcoming paper publication). She is lined up for researching with a physics prof this school year, will do some kind of physics research next summer, and will do a senior research project as well. She is at Harvey Mudd, so there are a lot of opportunities there for research, fortunately. Her CS prof and the physics prof she will be researching this year should be good recommenders, and she knows she needs to find one more.
Good to hear that she can be somewhat open minded in her research field in her applications. Thanks for the information!
So I have more (stupid) questions. How do state universities & residency affect grad school admissions and cost? Say she applies to a state university grad school program where she has never been a resident. Are her chances of admission reduced because she is OOS? Is she less likely to get funding that will cover her expenses? Her “residency” is about to change from one state to another, as I am moving, so also not sure if that impacts it if she wants to apply to one of those state universities. And she attends college in a third state, California.
Other people have done an excellent job of answering you first questions, but I can help with your most recent question.
Ph.D. programs in the sciences are often funded. This means that the school/department pays not only for the graduate student’s tuition, but a stipend as well. In my field, the stipend is typically ~$30,000/year depending on location. The goal of the stipend is to allow a student to focus fully on their graduate education and not work outside of their duties at the graduate school. (In fact my school prohibits working outside the grad school entirely.) These duties to the graduate school include working as either a teaching assistant or a graduate research assistant in the lab.
State of residence does NOT matter for admissions to graduate school. Your daughter should apply to programs that fit her areas of interest, not based on residency. Also, to increase chances of admittance to graduate school, she needs to make sure she is getting plenty of research experience. This will help way more than the Physics GRE ever could. If she can research and get her name on a paper or two, that would really help.
Also, you mentioned interviews before. All of my interview visits were completely paid for by the institution inviting me.
I am a first year Ph.D. student in biomedical sciences. Feel free to ask questions here or message me privately if you’d like more help. I’m happy to help!
Thank you! You mentioned the option to be a TA or a lab research assistant. Is it harder to get the lab research positions? If starting out in one (say, TA for the first year or two), can you ever later switch to the other? She has a strong interest in research and I think is thinking about getting her PhD to work in labs long term, not to become a professor.
I am not at all disagreeing with the excellent advice that others have given. I do think that I should stress, for others led to reading this thread, that this may not be the same in all fields. In my subject (Lit) pre-admissions visits were helpful getting my foot in the door of a tight field. Two profs at two schools told me that “a presence made and interest shown” could help my application, since I was no longer a name on paper but a person with whom the dept. had spent time. Best wishes to all.
The TA (teaching assistant) v GRA (graduate research assistant) is really dependent on the school of interest and the program of interest within that school. For example, my graduate school has no undergrads, so we are all GRAs. The other schools I was accepted at were also large, well-known research institutions with undergrads but offered GRAs. I know many smaller/less known programs frequently make use of grad students as TAs. I am not sure how this works in physics, but this has been my experience. Your daughter needs to look at each program individually to see if they offer TAs, GRAs, or a combination of both.
Also, given that she’s an adult applying to graduate school, her state of residency is going to be dependent on her movements from here on out, not yours. But as was already mentioned, that doesn’t matter in admissions or funding decisions.
As for TAing vs. RAing - this varies by program, but most science programs are probably going to lean heavily on RAships but require or strongly encourage her to do both. For example, my PhD program required students to TA one semester and RA the other semester every year. Most likely she’ll get experience with both in graduate school, but she will definitely get RA experience as that is the core of the doctoral experience.
I have two in Grad school now. One found out about a new major program in material science (probably from his major professors) and applied. I think that program brought out several students to interview (January/February timeframe?) and knew at the end of the process that he would likely be offered a position. I think he has always had an RA position.
My other son is in a biology-related field. He had a couple of summer internships with a company in his area of interest. He talked to some of the employees and other interns about their opinions of various schools and programs and decided to apply to three. He was accepted at one (his top choice), but later on, they had to pull back the offer because a hoped-for grant did not materialize. This illustrates the need to get information about the source of funding for the graduate program. He was able to reactivate his application to one of the other schools. and they accepted him. I think he may have had some email conversations with a professor, perhaps even skyping, but did not go out to interview. He is also on an RA there. Tuition is waived for both, neither were residents of the states when they started and stipends are 28000/yr and about 21 or 22000/yr.
Your D should talk to people at the conference, both to find out about areas that might interest her, but also to talk about programs and professors she might be interested in. She should also talk to her major professors as good recommendations from them will be critical.
In Physics, the typical thing is for a student fresh out of the B.S. degree to be a TA for one or at the most 2 years while she takes courses. In physics, the coursework is a bit more than one year usually. She may, depending on the program, also have to pass a written qualifying exam (most programs still have this but some are dropping it) on either undergraduate physics (like we do at Illinois Tech) or the first year graduate curriculum. After all of this, it is usually possible to find a RA position. In some cases, if the incoming student has a lot of research experience and has caught the eye of a faculty member, it may be possible to start with an RA but because of the course requirements (usually full time for one year), faculty in physics are less likely to take on a student in her first year.
She should also apply for the NSF GRT program this year with the support of her research advisor. This is due in November and if she wins one, she will have her own funding and can pretty much go where she wants. It is hard to get but students have 3 opportunities to apply, in tier Senior year, and the first two years of graduate school. The competition gets tougher each successive year so starting now and getting feedback is a good thing to do.
She needs to talk to her research mentors at university. They will have lots of good advice and they know her well.
Very helpful, thanks! She will be talking with her advisor (who is also the prof she is researching with), and of course will be seeking his advice. Just to clarify, she would apply for the NSF GRT this year, her junior year?
http://www.nsfgrfp.org/applicants/eligibility
The current round of apps requires starting in a grad program in fall 2016
You usually start applying for the NSF GRFP in the same year that you apply for grad school (i.e. senior year in this case).
University of Michigan’s graduate school lists an IS vs OOS tuition for the graduate school of arts and sciences (http://ro.umich.edu/tuition/tuition-fees.php). Is that distinction only important for fields where students are not typically funded by extramural funding (like they are in the sciences)?
Sorry, no, next year when she is a Senior. I forgot she was a junior.
@iwannabe_Brown - Yes, that is important when a student has to find their own funding somehow. The plus is that a graduate student can usually establish residency after one year and then qualify for IS tuition. This is the case in California and makes a difference for the research group that supports students too because they have to pay the tuition out of their grants. I remember being told as a first year graduate student at UCSD to establish residency in California just for this reason.