<p>I'm brand new to this, although I've been reading a lot on these pages. My son is a senior who plans to attend grad school as a violin performance major. His teacher has agreed that he should audition at CIM, NEC, San Francisco Conservatory and the University of Michigan. She didn't think he'd get in to those schools as an undergrad, so he did undergrad with her (well-known teacher at a big state university). Does he really have much of a chance as a grad student if he wasn't ready four years ago? Isn't it just as hard to get into those schools as a grad student, if not harder? Any insights would be so appreciated!</p>
<p>It’s hard to know his chances without knowing how much he has grown and improved over the last four years. But, did he audition anywhere four years ago besides the university he attended? I would question a teacher discouraging a student from applying anywhere because she “didn’t think he’d get in”. It might have been a good idea at the time to get some feedback from other teachers as well. Did he have any sample lessons anywhere else? I think it would have been worth a shot to apply elsewhere–why not? Of course, I don’t know the circumstances, but is there a chance his teacher was just trying to ‘bolster’ her own studio? At this point, without knowing your son’s progress, I would suggest much the same. Has he visited these colleges, had sample lessons, sought feedback on his playing from others? Grad schools are indeed competitive, but certainly worth taking a chance if your son feels he is at the level required.</p>
<p>Thank you for responding to my post. I have so many questions, and I feel so anxious about all of this. Our son is a little dreamy and immature. Hes got talent, and has worked hard, but did not have good instruction (were from a small Midwestern town) until we started driving him to the Cities when he was 15 for lessons with a well-known pedagogue who accepted him with this statement: Well, youre not the worst mess Ive ever heard. That sounds awful, but she has a colorful way of speaking, and our son, and all her students, adore her. She heard a violinist in there, but emphasized that he had a lot of catching up to do, and would have to return to simpler repertoire and work on correcting horrible form. That was when he was starting 10th grade. We drove 500 miles round trip for nearly 3 years. Hes made great strides, but as I mentioned, she did not feel he was ready for a high-powered conservatory when he auditioned for undergrad. She accepted him into her studio at this large university music school, and hes done well, although hes not a big star.
So why would these conservatories be a possibility for him now? Why would she suggest them? This puzzles me. It seems to me that she should be more involved in preparing him for these grad school auditions – helping him set up the prescreen tapings, identifying specific teachers at each school to request, making sure he understands whats ahead
Weve suggested to our son that he consider a gap year, but he isnt interested. Weve all taken on a lot of debt, and he really needs to make sure he wants all of this, right? He gets uncomfortable with conversations about grad school and his future. Hes frightened, I know. And yet he wants to continue, he says.
I so dread the whole process, and the prospect of bitter disappointment and confusion. His teacher knows so many people in the business (shes in her 70s now; she was a Curtis student and Galamian assistant; shes had many students achieve great things, so she knows the scene, for sure). I do not want my son to pick up on my fears, but I dont want to feed him to the wolves, either. Nobody else is looking out for him, but hes 21. Should I back off and let him figure this out?</p>
<p>I forgot to mention that he did apply at other schools for undergrad, but none of them were prestigious conservatories like CIM. He was offered nice packages at all. This summer, he met and worked with a violin faculty member at NEC. He loved the guy, and asked him if he “thought he had a shot.” The teacher, a generous-spirited fellow, replied, “Of course you should apply!” Then went on to talk about how it’s a lot more competitive than it was even 10 years ago. He said to “put his name down” on the application, which doesn’t mean anything, I know, but I’m sure my son read more into it.</p>
<p>onekidmama, thanks for providing more details. It sounds like your son has worked hard and made great strides. Wow, 500 round trip! We thought our 120 round trip was bad enough (we’re also from a small midwestern town and traveled to a larger city for lessons). That is certainly dedication! It certainly sounds like it would be worth a shot for your son to at least apply to these schools–although I might suggest a ‘safety’ school or two to add to the list. Then you can see how he does in the application process and where to go from there. I am worried though by your statement “we’ve all taken on a lot of debt”–I think students need to be very cautious about accumulating major debt. Grad schools are competitive–but the job market after that is even more so. It will be hard to make a living, yet alone pay back large debts. Regarding the teacher and her possible lack of assistance–yes, I think she should definitely provide guidance regarding teachers at each specific school, if she has that information. Beyond that, though, I’m sure it varies from teacher to teacher. In my son’s case (who is also applying to grad schools) his teacher basically just provides the coaching in lessons on the required audition pieces and is writing a letter of recommendation. There is no help on pre-screening videos, etc. That is all my son’s own responsibility. As a parent, at this point we can basically provide some advice as needed but, as you say, probably best to try to stay out of the way as much as possible to help them find their own future path. It’s hard to know just how much to try to be involved when your child is now technically an adult. But, if you would be the one financing his graduate school, I would think you should have a bit more input. Good luck!</p>
<p>Oh, and onekidmama, good to know we have each other here for support–it seems like not many ‘grad school app’ parents on this forum lately. It seems on one hand like ‘here we go again’, but on the other hand, like a whole different ball game for grad school applications. I certainly have my times of worry and apprehension as well!</p>
<p>My daughter is also applying to grad schools this year. And, bombshell, she’s decided to apply on a different instrument than she did her undergrad in. I’m not really helping her out much, though-- from this distance and with her level of maturity, she is working it out herself while I remain a highly interested bystander.</p>
<p>onekidmama, just reading between the lines, if your son’s teacher thinks he’s ready to apply to the major conservatories, she probably does truly believe he has a shot. She would not send a student out to audition for teachers who are her colleagues and likely former classmates if she did not think he was going to do well. It is possible, however, that she is no longer totally up on the situation in major conservatories if she’s been teaching off the beaten track. It’s hard to know. But she must believe in him; otherwise she would not set him up for disaster and not risk her own reputation as a teacher.</p>
<p>Good to hear from you, Clarimom and Glassharmonica. “Here we go, again!” Exactly, Clarimom. Except now, my role has to be a little more hands-off, which is hard for me, especially since my son tends towards disorganization and takes a head-in-the-sand approach to things that scare him. We funded his undergrad, with loans and cash, and he’s taken loans and worked part-time. We do not plan to fund undergrad, because we’re pretty tapped out, but we’ll see what happens with TAs. Man, I would love to be a highly interested bystander, Clarimom! I’ll work on that. His teacher isn’t off-the-beaten track, where she is, and she still goes around to lead masterclasses. Several of her former students have positions with major orchestras, but of course, many more don’t! She’s probably close to retiring, though. I think what I have to trust is that if he doesn’t get in where he wants to, he will adjust, reassess and either keep trying or move on to something else. </p>
<p>New question: better to be a big fish in a small sea, at this point in our kids’ educations, or little in a big?</p>
<p>I’d say little in big. When you’re around players who are incredibly gifted and proficient you rise to a new level (and you get to play with them and hear them daily.) Even a “little fish” in a top conservatory can make waves (okay, I have to stop with the ocean metaphor) because there are so many opportunities to take advantage of. Don’t make the mistake of being one of the top players at your school (unless you are so good that you’re at the top of the entire world already.)</p>
<p>I agree with glassharmonica - little fish in a big pond. In music, one’s peers become equally as important as one’s teachers. These are the people your student will be creating music with both now, and into the future. And networking is essential.</p>
<p>If you already have loans, are you sure he should go right into grad school? Maybe he should try his hand at living the life, a job, some performance, entrepreneurial efforts, working in outreach, whatever. </p>
<p>These days, so many go right from undergrad to grad. I think that having those huge debts really limits choices and artistic freedom for some.</p>
<p>I also think the kind of conveyer belt mentality (and degree inflation) robs the kids of a chance for reflection and really owning their path.</p>
<p>My family decided no grad programs unless fully funded, out of necessity, but there are so many reasons that I, as a parent, feel good about this. At least for now.</p>
<p>Great feedback everybody. I am so happy I joined this forum. Thanks, too, to the dad who emailed me with a thoughtful response! I tried to email you back, but was not allowed because I haven’t posted enough yet.</p>
<p>We have suggested a gap year or two for our son, for the exact reasons you mention, and expressed so well, compmom. I wish we could have a face-to-face conversation with our son before he tries to meet all the Dec. 1 deadlines for apps and prescreens – lots of money and time required just for those, without even knowing if you’ll get a live audition! When he was home for a couple weeks this summer, we tried to talk about other options. He’d get confused and upset, no matter how gently we approached the subject.</p>
<p>Phew! I was a little scared I would offend by suggesting what might seem an overly bold, insensitive, or discouraging, option.</p>
<p>I have been going through this with my own daughter, who is quite ambitious in her own quirky way, was clearly on the path to grad school, and is now planning on taking a sort of outlier path to admissions later She refuses to have any loans, so we’ll see what happens.</p>
<p>I think that there is some confusion as to the current teacher’s role in this process. While she could certainly make suggestions about specific teachers, it’s not up to her to deal with the recordings or really much beyond making sure that your son has prepared the audition rep to the best of his abilities. I assume that by this time, your son has checked the requirements for each school and is ready to make the recordings (if not, then a gap year is definitely in order)? There is usually an A/V dept at schools which will loan recording equipment and explain the process for signing up for a studio time.
Has your son visited any of the schools on the list? He’s going to have to list teacher preferences so he really needs to make those decisions now. Obviously, he should list the gentleman he knows at NEC! Grad school is more intense and involved and the student needs to be able to plan and budget time well.
My D just went through this process last year and is happily ensconced in a program that is a perfect fit for her. Luckily, she is one of those super organized people who has everything finished early which kept the stress to a minimum, but her teacher left at the end of her junior year and although she got along ok with the replacement teacher, she did all of the school/program/teacher selection on her own and scheduled her recordings (both CD and DVD).
It’s not any easier four years after the first round! And know that grad schools aren’t wonderful about adhering to notification dates; they are a month earlier for grads as opposed to undergrads, but this year, they were drifting in up to a month late.
We’ll keep you company this year onekidmama!</p>
<p>Once again I am so grateful for this forum! Thanks to those of you who have been posting–I have learned so much from CC through the years. I am hoping S will find himself next fall also “happily ensconced in a program that is a perfect fit” like Mezzo’s Mama’s D. This prescreening business is totally new for him–for his undergraduate applications no prescreenings were required for his instrument anywhere that he applied. I am totally nervous about this process. Will he get them done in time? Will he pass onto the audition round? I see sleepless nights in my future…</p>
<p>Addressing compmom’s post regarding not going on to grad school until one can afford it. The problem is that one won’t know what types of financial assistance will be offered until you actually apply, of course. So many times I have seen students not apply to a particular school because they think they cannot afford it. We were very surprised (pleasantly) when one of our S’s top choices actually had the best financial aid package–it was a school we were sure we couldn’t afford. From my own personal experience, I went right from undergrad to masters to doctorate without any gap years in between and wouldn’t have done it any other way, so I guess I am a bit biased. I am concerned by the cost of my son’s graduate school education at some of the schools he is applying to, but nevertheless I’m not discouraging him from applying–just crossing my fingers for some type of assistantships or scholarships. We of course will insist he weigh all the options, with utmost consideration given to what the financial aid package is for each.</p>
<p>Just to clarify I was not suggesting that anyone wait for grad school “until one can afford it.” There are, however, other possible reasons to wait.</p>
<p>Everyone is different. Some students benefit from a year between undergrad and grad, and some don’t. It seemed as if preparing applications might be stressful for this young man, and so I was playing devil’s advocate a bit about a gap year before investing more money in grad school, after putting so much into undergrad. If the son’s drive for grad school persists, then the money would be worth it, and the following year, presumably, applications would be less stressful.</p>
<p>My daughter is a composer, so it is a little different. She is contemplating, at some point, applying for PhD programs without doing a master’s. We really cannot afford a master’s, period. We could take out loans, but then paying them back would limit her creative freedom: she would have to write for the marketplace.</p>
<p>There may be parallels for instrumentalists in terms of what they might have to do, or might not be able to do, after taking out loans and then graduating with a master’s. I would be interested to hear what others have to say on this.</p>
<p>But this was not the question posed by the original poster, so I don’t mean to divert the discussion. I hope that if he does decide to apply this year, that the son will go for it and apply where he really wants to go!</p>
<p>Oh, sorry, compmom, I misunderstood your sentence about your family’s decision of “no grad programs unless fully funded”, as I had been discussing with OP the importance of not accumulating huge debt for grad school. I totally agree that everyone is different, and perhaps a gap year would benefit OP’s S. We have also suggested to our S, who is struggling with a heavy courseload while trying to find time to record prescreening videos for a number of schools, that a gap year certainly wouldn’t be out of the question. An extra year of just practice would be so advantageous!</p>
I have to work on that as well.</p>