<p>Hi,
Up until today, I was sure I wanted to apply ED to Barnard. Unfortunately, I came across a discussion about the Barnard/Columbia relationship and that has made me extremely wary of applying to Barnard. I love the campus, and of course the city, but that thread has slightly dampened my enthusiasm 
I would like to attend grad school after Barnard and I wanted to know if Ivy League schools have the same attitude about Barnard as some CC students do. Also, between Wellesley and Barnard, which college places more students in graduate schools (HYPS)?
Thanks</p>
<p>Don't worry. Grad schools know what a rigorous school Barnard is, and the senior thesis gives real heft to grad school applications.</p>
<p>My d is in the process of applying to grad school now. Her being at Barnard has been very well-received by the people she has talked to so far. I do not think that will be a problem at all. </p>
<p>Plus, pay no attention to the goof-balls you see on this site that talk about the Barnard/Columbia relationship as being some sort of huge negative thing. It just is not, from my daughter's perspective anyway.</p>
<p>Thanks for all your help!
churchmusicmom, where is your daughter thinking of applying?</p>
<p>For the particular area of research in which she is interested, it's looking like NYU and Emory are the best schools (since she does not want to go West Coast). She is also thinking about (or has thought about...not sure where she is in her decisions at this point) Yale, Brown, Vandy, and U Penn, I believe.</p>
<p>I forgot to add that the faculty at Barnard have been very, very helpful and supportive in this process for my D. From her advisor being very enthusiastic and having long talks with her about different schools, to the profs she has asked for recs being excited and meeting with her to discuss her plans; to her lab PI really talking through the process with her and pointing out that the research experience that you gain at Barnard (with doing your Senior Thesis) is pretty much unparalleled at the undergrad level. Her PI told her that grad schools know and recognize this....they know that your research experience will be quite different in nature from someone who has attended a larger school and who might have worked in a lab for several years, for example, but only did menial tasks. Lab experience at Barnard is not like that AT ALL!!</p>
<p>I'm sorry to be so annoying...but I came across this list from another thread. Is it at all accurate? </p>
<p>Top 50 Feeder Schools (grad schools)
1) Harvard
2) Yale
3) Princeton
4) Stanford
5) Williams
6) Duke
7) Dartmouth
8) MIT
9) Amherst
10) Swarthmore
11) Columbia
12) Brown
13) Pomona
14) University of Chicago
15) Wellesley
16) University of Pennsylvania
17) Georgetown
18) Haverford
19) Bowdoin
20) Rice
21) Northwestern
22) Claremont McKenna
23) Middlebury
24) Johns Hopkins
25) Cornell
26) Bryn Mawr
27) Wesleyan
28) Cal Tech
29) Morehouse
30) University of Michigan
31) New College of Florida
32) Vassar
33 University of Virginia
34) United States Military Academy
35) University of Notre Dame
36) Emory University
37) United States Naval Academy
38) Macalester
39) Brandeis
40) Bates
41) University of California, Berkeley
42) Barnard
43) Trinity
44) Grinnell
45) Tufts
46) Colby
47) Washington University
48) Washington and Lee
49) Case Western Reserve
50) Reed</p>
<p>No clue whether this is accurate or not... And to say there is any sort of "top" anything list for "graduate school" is, at best, a bit misleading as I imagine it would depend to some extent on what major academic area you are thinking about. IE, MIT would be a great school for undergrads considering engineering and going on for for a higher degree, but maybe not so much for, say, literature or philosophy (I am making some broad assumptions here, but hopefully you get my drift).</p>
<p>Yes, I definitely understand. Thanks so much :)</p>
<p>Here are the top 100 PhD feeder undergrad schools (first posted by interesteddad).</p>
<p>Percentage of graduates getting a PhD
PhDs and Doctoral Degrees:
ten years (1994 to 2003) from NSF database</p>
<p>Number of Undergraduates:
ten years (1989 to 1998) from IPEDS database</p>
<p>Note: Does not include colleges with less than 1000 graduates over the ten year period. Includes all NSF doctoral degrees inc. PhD, Divinity, etc., but not M.D. or Law. </p>
<p>
1 35.8% California Institute of Technology<br>
2 24.7% Harvey Mudd College
3 21.1% Swarthmore College<br>
4 19.9% Reed College<br>
5 18.3% Massachusetts Institute of Technology<br>
6 16.8% Carleton College<br>
7 15.8% Bryn Mawr College<br>
8 15.7% Oberlin College
9 15.3% University of Chicago<br>
10 14.5% Yale University
11 14.3% Princeton University<br>
12 14.3% Harvard University<br>
13 14.1% Grinnell College<br>
14 13.8% Haverford College<br>
15 13.8% Pomona College<br>
16 13.1% Rice University
17 12.7% Williams College<br>
18 12.4% Amherst College
19 11.4% Stanford University
20 11.3% Kalamazoo College<br>
21 11.0% Wesleyan University
22 10.6% St John's College (both campus)
23 10.6% Brown University<br>
24 10.4% Wellesley College<br>
25 10.0% Earlham College
26 9.6% Beloit College<br>
27 9.5% Lawrence University
28 9.3% Macalester College<br>
29 9.0% Cornell University, All Campuses<br>
30 9.0% Bowdoin College
31 8.9% Mount Holyoke College<br>
32 8.9% Smith College<br>
33 8.8% Vassar College<br>
34 8.7% Case Western Reserve University
35 8.7% Johns Hopkins University<br>
36 8.7% St Olaf College
37 8.7% Hendrix College
38 8.6% Hampshire College<br>
39 8.5% Trinity University<br>
40 8.5% Knox College<br>
41 8.5% Duke University
42 8.4% Occidental College<br>
43 8.3% University of Rochester
44 8.3% College of Wooster<br>
45 8.3% Barnard College
46 8.2% Bennington College<br>
47 8.1% Columbia University in the City of New York
48 8.0% Whitman College
49 7.9% University of California-Berkeley<br>
50 7.9% College of William and Mary
51 7.8% Carnegie Mellon University<br>
52 7.8% New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology<br>
53 7.7% Brandeis University
54 7.6% Dartmouth College<br>
55 7.5% Wabash College<br>
56 7.5% Bates College<br>
57 7.5% Davidson College<br>
58 7.2% Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute<br>
59 7.2% Franklin and Marshall College<br>
60 7.1% Fisk University
61 7.1% Wheaton College (Wheaton, IL)<br>
62 6.8% University of California-San Francisco<br>
63 6.8% Allegheny College<br>
64 6.6% Furman University<br>
65 6.5% University of Pennsylvania<br>
66 6.5% Washington University<br>
67 6.5% Bard College<br>
68 6.4% Northwestern Univ<br>
69 6.4% Rhodes College<br>
70 6.3% Agnes Scott College
71 6.3% Spelman College
72 6.2% Antioch University, All Campuses<br>
73 6.2% Kenyon College<br>
74 6.2% University of Dallas<br>
75 6.1% Ripon College<br>
76 6.1% Colorado College<br>
77 6.1% Bethel College (North Newton, KS)<br>
78 6.0% Hamilton College<br>
79 6.0% Goshen College<br>
80 6.0% Middlebury College<br>
81 6.0% Erskine College
82 5.9% University of the South
83 5.8% University of Michigan at Ann Arbor
84 5.8% Drew University
85 5.8% Wake Forest University<br>
86 5.8% Tougaloo College<br>
87 5.8% Goucher College
88 5.7% Chatham College
89 5.7% Cooper Union<br>
90 5.7% Alfred University, Main Campus<br>
91 5.7% Tufts University<br>
92 5.6% University of California-Santa Cruz
93 5.6% Colgate University<br>
94 5.5% Colby College<br>
95 5.4% Bucknell University
96 5.4% Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
97 5.4% Concordia Teachers College<br>
98 5.4% University of Virginia, Main Campus
99 5.3% Sarah Lawrence College<br>
100 5.3% Southwestern University
</p>
<p>In regards to the discussion you read about the Columbia/Barnard relationship - had exactly the same experience . Before I decided to attend Barnard I read, on these very forums (!!) long discussions with lots of columbia kids bashing barnard, and saying the relationship was terrible. Then I talked to a Barnard sophomore, who said she had never encountered any sort of bad feelings from any Columbia kids, except one, who was a real ass anyways. </p>
<p>I listened to her- and she was pretty much right! I dont know why so much is made of this online, but it's not a big deal in real life. Yes, people make Barnard jokes sometimes - but we also make GS and SEAS jokes, and anyone with half a brain knows that these jokes, while they might have some smidge of truth in certain cases, are jokes and generalizations and such. And, okay, I have met a FEW (out of many many) Columbia people who seemed to genuinely dislike barnard students (as a whole, not specific people). They consisted of 2 snobby, mean girls who were basically jealous that barnard girls were dating the guys they liked, and one obnoxious, self-righteous columbia boy who thought barnard students, with their inferior SAT scores, didn't "deserve" to get columbia emails/have the same advantages, etc. but realy, i wouldn't want to be friends with that sort of person anyways. at least 90% of columbia students are sensible people who realize that barnard is just a school across the street with which columbia happens to have a very close relationship. </p>
<p>a lot of them even like barnard and barnard students! i have a friend who applied ED to columbia, and goes there, but says if she had to do it over again she'd apply to barnard. and i have guy friends who think it's unfair there's no guy version of barnard. indeed, in the barnard edition of the columbia literary magazine last year, the editorial at the beginning of the issue talked about the dynamics between the schools, and the differences between them, and ended with something like, "...Yes, we joke about Barnard sometimes, but when we really think about the differences between the schools,the truth is most of us probably wish we went there."</p>
<p>thanks for posting that, Aube88. I feel silly sometimes going on and on as a parent about how this is not such a big deal and how Barnard truly has advantages over Columbia. I have said this before on this board, but it was a long time ago and bears repeating :</p>
<p>A Columbia prof told my daughter that he advises Columbia undergrads to take as many courses as they can at Barnard (he is a well-known, tenured English prof). He told her outright that Barnard classes are better...more individual attention, etc.</p>
<p>That "graduate" feeder list is terrible; they should have just published disaggregated information. It's a ranking of # of students going to the top 5 law, business, and med schools (as chosen by the magazine)/ the number of students in the school. So it's "accurate" in that they use correct real world numbers to construct their ranking, but it's incredibly misleading as a list of which schools are "best" to go to if you want to get in to grad school. Even the massive selection issues aside, they're talking about professional programs and not graduate programs. As someone who works with data and metrics for a living, I find their presentation of these useful data almost offensively bad.</p>
<p>Barnard students who choose to go to grad school typically do very well in admissions. I had a fantastic experience as a research assistant to several professors, with real responsibilities, doing real academic research and getting involved in projects conducted in the city outside the college as well. My profs were uniformly thrilled to hear I was considering grad school and helped me figure out which classes would be the best preparation for doing research in my area of interest, and, of course, which programs and fellowships I should be considering. Since I did very well, I can only assume they also wrote me fantastic letters of recommendation. I know I rave about everything about Barnard nonstop, but this area in particular I feel strongly about. I don't think I'd be where I am if I'd gone to a college with less access to faculty who were sincerely interested in my success, and I don't think I'd be as successful with my research if I weren't so thoroughly trained in the intellectual process.</p>
<p>Ahh, Primefactor...so nice to see your post above!!! My daughter is a senior and currently in the application process and she has found all you said to be true so far. Good to hear you are doing well!</p>