Grade deflation?

College Search & Selection
21

<p>IMHO, it is really sad when posters here keep relying on the same faulty source to support their arguments (listening, mini and elsijfdl?). I'm referring to gradeinflation.com.</p>

<p>At least with regard to Chicago, the ONLY datapoint that author has is:
[quote]
GPA Data</p>

<p>University of Chicago</p>

<p>Source: Internal University of Miami document that gave a synopsis of changes in GPA over time at other institutions</p>

<p><a href="http://www.as.miami.edu/faculty/Grading_Report_Final_9.13.011.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.as.miami.edu/faculty/Grading_Report_Final_9.13.011.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Method unspecified

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Now, this source is no longer posted on line, but one can get it through internet archives. I looked at it and it has no source for its data.</p>

<p>Personally, I would not rely on unreferenced data from the University of Miami when talking about another university.</p>

<p>So, you may THINK the aveage GPA at Chicago is 3.26, but is it? You may THINK they've had a lot of grade inflation, but have they? For sure, the University of Chicago itself is not saying. </p>

<p>I can tell you that about 1/3 of their undergrads graduate with honors, which requires a GPA of between 3.3 and 3.5, depending on the department.</p>

22

<p>
[quote]
So, you may THINK the aveage GPA at Chicago is 3.26, but is it? You may THINK they've had a lot of grade inflation, but have they? For sure, the University of Chicago itself is not saying.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>lol newmassdad, if you actually took the time to read my sources instead of linking to missing pages, you would read the 3.26 GPA at chicago i cited came from a university of chicago newspaper article.</p>

<p>an article which itself is about the lack of grade deflation at their own school, and how the old urban legend continues to persist, regardless.</p>

<p>here, for easy reading:
<a href="http://maroon.uchicago.edu/news/articles/2005/01/18/gpas_get_a_76_boost_.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://maroon.uchicago.edu/news/articles/2005/01/18/gpas_get_a_76_boost_.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>even easier reading:
"data, which charted the GPA increase at colleges from 1965 to 2000, Chicago experienced a rate of inflation greater than that of most other schools."</p>

<p>"Chicago students pride themselves on the University’s reputation for stingy grading. However, students might be grasping at more fiction than fact: Grade point averages at the University rose from a mean of 2.50 in 1965 to 3.26 in 1999"</p>

23

<p>
[quote]
I agree, sakky, that college degrees are important. However, if all I was looking for was a degree from a college, believe me, I would have settled for the handful of four-year colleges in my backyard instead of signing myself up for Chicago. I would have saved a lot of time, a lot of money, and a lot of hassles, especially because I'm not going to enter any job field in which I NEED a high-class diploma. However, the diploma is not really what's important to me-- I'm looking for an academic experience that's really going to expand who I am. I want that uphill battle.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Hey, if it's working out well for you, then good for you. But my point is that it doesn't work well for everybody. Not everybody at Chicago or any other difficult school will do well. Some will indeed do poorly - poorly enough to flunk out. Those students would have been better off if they had not even gone to that school at all. </p>

<p>It's one thing to want to provide a tough and enriching educational experience to your students. It's quite another to provide a punitive experience. If some students can't or don't want to meet whatever standards you set, they shouldn't be persecuted for it. Let them leave the school with a clean slate. There is no need to flunk them out. Just pretend as if he had never gone to the school at all. To use your analogy, if you want an uphill battle, fine. But if other students want to stop fighting that battle, they shouldn't be forced to keep fighting anyway on pain of flunking out. </p>

<p>
[quote]
As I mentioned, I don't know anybody who literally has "flunked" out of Chicago, though I do know people who have taken time off. Say the MIT flunkout needs a diploma for a career-- he or she will have many options to get one. I don't know enough about campus culture at MIT, but at least at Chicago, if you're not doing well, you're probably not enjoying yourself that much either, and you probably want to transfer to another school even before the school asks you to transfer by flunking you out.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Right there is precisely the problem . If you're not doing well, you're not going to find it easy to transfer to another decent school because, like I said, no decent school wants to admit a transfer student who did poorly in his previous school. The upshot is that some students would have been better off in not having gone to the school at all (i.e. entering the workforce immediately), than in going to the school and doing poorly. That's sad. No school should make any of its students worse off than if they had never even gone at all.</p>

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<p>LOL, elsijfdl, that U. Chicago quote came from a STUDENT newspaper, who cited the same reference I mentioned in my earlier message.</p>

<p>You really need to learn to dig a bit deeper, and read an entire source. Too often, all the so-called sources lead to the same underlying starting point, hence the problem. </p>

<p>So again, what does the University of Chicago say? Nothing. </p>

<p>WE DON'T KNOW.</p>

25

<p>haha are you um... ok?</p>

<p>
[quote]
who cited the same reference I mentioned in my earlier message.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>actually, you mentioned a university of miami source, the article i linked to?</p>

<p>"according to research by Stuart Rojstaczer, a professor at Duke University."</p>

<p>
[quote]
So again, what does the University of Chicago say? Nothing.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>well there was this:</p>

<p>"Charles Lipson, director of undergraduate studies in political science and professor at the University for more than 25 years, has noticed this upward trend first-hand and does not consider it a problem. “I think the U of C has done a fairly good job of holding the line [on grade inflation], but let’s face it, the rising tide of grades nationwide lifts all boats, including ours,” he said. “Nobody considers the ‘C’ a solid mid-level grade anymore. That’s as true at Chicago as it is at other elite universities.”"</p>

<p>then there's also this:
"Jonathan Hall, professor and chair of Classics, said that while professors in general “jealously guard” their grading autonomy, he was given advice on grading policies as a new professor. “When I started, I was discouraged from giving lower grades on the grounds that it would severely damage undergraduates who were not concentrating in Classics or history and were intending to apply to professional schools,”"</p>

<p>and not only that, how could you refute objective, recorded data on the basis that the university public affairs representatives do not acknowledge it? that is the most ridiculous and insustainable position i have ever seen someone take on an issue. of course they are not going to acknowledge any information that makes their school look different than they want it to, that's the point of "spin" that's the point of "public affairs representatives"</p>

<p>are you going to come here and argue "we can not know the iraq war is not going successfully because, WHAT DOES THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION SAY ABOUT IT?" haha... that logic looks a little bit more ridiculous now in context doesn't it?</p>

<p>and beyond that, do not even get me started on the credibility of uchicago when it comes to making public statements. from 'the common app is what is what is wrong with american education. it's boring, and we will never use it' to "university of chicago adopts the common application" a year later. from 'we're above usnews, we don't care about rankings and exist only to pursue our own educational goals' to "university of chicago representatives meet with usnews editors to discuss how to improve their ranking"</p>