<p>I've heard a couple of things about grade deflation at Princeton. Could we discuss? I want to separate fact from fiction...</p>
<p>If anything, grade deflation is the ONE thing that has me thinking Yale over Princeton. I like competing with myself and trying to constantly improve, but the grade deflation system seems to foster competition with your peers, and ultimately, an unpleasant atmosphere of bitterness.</p>
<p>Yeah I might be leaning more towards Harvard/Yale because of it...not because it would be "harder" at Princeton to get a good GPA per say, but more because of the resulting competitive environment? Idk anyone else have any takes on this? Does the grade deflation make competition more bitter and harsher?</p>
<p>wait what exactly is this grade deflation at princeton? Do they have a limited amount of A's they can give to students?</p>
<p>yeah it's topped at 35% for classes I think</p>
<p>My friend at Pton says that in a lot of classes, the professors still just give A's to all students who deserve it...so I'm not sure how big an issue it ACTUALLY is.</p>
<p>But what would worry me is that yeah, people would probably be way more competitive (but like, come on, like people at Harvard/Yale wouldn't be competitive...)</p>
<p>I know Princeton departments have a limited number of A's to give out, but does grade deflation limit B's or C's too?</p>
<p>are there any current Princeton students who can give some insight?</p>
<p>I can give some insight via my D. A's are possible. Absolutely. But they won't be given out willy nilly. You will have to do your best work. Isn't that how it's supposed to be?</p>
<p>Current student here. You have to work very hard for A's, even in subjects for which you have a natural affinity. It's no longer enough to simply be smart; your work ethic is definitely a factor. That said, A's are definitely attainable. It's hard to give much more insight than that because different students have very different abilities. The policy really doesn't bother me that much because it affects all Princeton students equally. Sure we have to work harder than students at Harvard to get A's, but I came to Princeton because I wanted to be challenged. It's still too early to say conclusively that the policy hasn't hurt Princeton students in the job market, but most of the popular employers say that they take grade deflation into account when evaluating applicants.</p>
<p>I've reiterated this, but in most science/math classes , this policy never rears its head because there usually aren't >35% A's anyway. It has had 0 effect on my science and math courses.
In other humanities courses, I don't think it's fostered an atmosphere of competitiveness at all. I work in groups for prob sets for econ and there are study groups for many courses. I haven't felt the super-competitive type of atmosphere that people fear.</p>
<p>Weasel, can you clarify what you mean by working "very hard"? Most people, I think, will have different standards for what this means based on the quality of their high school.</p>
<p>According to my daughter, she truly does not feel that the students at Princeton are competitive with each other over grades. She tells me that people rarely mention grades and there is no sense in her classes that it's a zero sum game and students are being pitted against each other. She adores the school and thinks that the students are really kind to each other and extremely happy (and she frequently mentions studying with groups of friends). She thinks that it can be difficult to get an A and you have to work hard, but kids don't seem unduly stressed by the grading system.</p>
<p>It is quite difficult to get an A in my experience, although doable. A-s are given out more readily, and I would say that the most frequent grade in the majority of classes is a B+ Very few classes change grades lower, they just maybe don't award as many A range grades as they used to. I don't think that it hurts in getting a job (I know that I got a very good job without a great GPA) or professional school admission, and it definitely doesn't hurt in graduate school admission.</p>
<p>According to a current Pton senior whom I met at Preview Days, the policy was made in part to make majors more "fair." For example, only 35% of kids in science and math majors were getting A's, and 65% of kids in humanities majors were getting A's. Does that mean that the kids taking humanities classes were smarter, or worked harder? Probably not. I think Princeton just wants to make all the majors equally difficult. He did say that by the time my class really starts caring about grades (e.g. junior/senior year when we'll be applying to grad school and jobs), the policy will have been around long enough that no one will care and no one will feel jipped.</p>
<p>Here is a link to information about the policy:</p>
<p>Princeton</a> University - Dean of the College - FAQ</p>
<p>Comparing the class of 2004 to the class of 2007, the University found that the policy has resulted in a 6.5% decrease in “A” grades in undergraduate, non-independent work. The effect on a typical student’s GPA is probably less than one tenth of a point. A few things to note. First, the 35% is a goal not a strict standard, and it is not yet been achieved by all departments. Second, the hard sciences were already grading in accordance with the policy, so their students are really not affected, except when taking courses to meet distribution requirements. The humanities students are most affected by the policy. Third, each department has its own policy for implementation of the goal, and these vary widely. Some departments seem to want most courses to be graded in close adherence to the policy. Others seem to like to have their introductory courses graded strictly so that they can give out more A’s in the courses that majors tend to take. Some Departments, especially the smaller ones, seem to be more or less ignoring the policy. Fourth, junior and senior independent work has a much higher goal, with the expectation that no more than 55% of grades will be A’s. </p>
<p>From what I can gather from my child, the policy, while not welcomed by students, has had little impact on how students interact. The students who are focused on doing the work necessary to get good grades and have the capacity to do so are still mostly getting A’s. On the other hand, the reality is that a lot of students are more interested in their extracurricular activities or the social scene and are satisfied to do enough work to get B’s in many of their courses. Other students may be brilliant in some areas but struggle in other areas and would not be likely to get A’s in some courses under any policy. In fact one could argue that relative to the actual impact of the policy, students may gain more upon graduation from Princeton’s reputation as the most academically rigorous of the elite schools than they lose from getting an occasional B+ instead of A-.</p>
<p>Thanks, PDaddy. That's a very helpful post. I hope at this point most people's questions about grade deflation have been answered.</p>
<p>thanks for all the info everyone! it gave me a good perspective</p>
<p>The policy is to scare the not so competitive, but cross admitted students off to Harvard so Princeton can come out a better school. And it is working. Brilliant!!!</p>
<p>Haha cc2, that's a nice way of looking at it! I was also thinking that this policy would make Princeton grades "worth more" than Harvard ones!</p>