<p>This is for current / former students at the CAS:</p>
<p>Could you compare grade deflation at UPenn compared to rival institutions, such as Columbia and Duke. I've heard rumors that I would like to straighten out.
I'm specifically interested in 1) biochemistry 2) economics and 3) core</p>
<p>thanks!</p>
<p>I would say that all those schools have grade inflation, not grade deflation. The engineering, math, and science departments might be tougher grade wise (and Wharton's core for Penn) but as a whole they all are big on grade inflation.</p>
<p>The chemistry department curves it's average to a C+ though the upper level classes like biochem and pchem (from what I have been told by older students). This makes it pretty tough to get good grades in upper level chem classes, compared to other departments where the curves become a little more lax at the higher levels. </p>
<p>Econ isn't that bad at the lower levels. I have no experience beyond the intro levels though. Econ 2 (Intro Macro) isn't curved the best though. The material isn't very difficult, but this past semester you needed a 94.5% or higher to get an A which I personally feel is a bit high for a 400 person entry level class.</p>
<p>Penn doesn't have a core for SAS. There are Sector and Foundational requirements (like math, writing, language, science, history, social science, etc) and you can take classes in them that are very easy (like math 170) or very difficult (like math 114).</p>
<p>Thanks Venka, I appreciate the help.</p>
<p>Anyone else with an opinion on this? Especially someone with a lot of experience in a particular department.</p>
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The chemistry department curves it's average to a C+ though the upper level classes like biochem and pchem (from what I have been told by older students).
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</p>
<p>I might be misreading, but it seems you didn't finish your thought. What are you saying older students told you about upper level classes?</p>
<p>Are intro level classes easier since the average is a C+? Why is it harder to get a better grade in the upper level courses? Aside from the fact that the material just gets harder?</p>
<p>chem at penn is just hard overall.</p>
<p>Intro chem and orgo are also curved so the average is a C+, but it's easier as a chem major to get above average because there are many bio majors and premeds in the class (at least, it's probably the premeds and bio majors that helped me get an A in Chem 101 and 102). However, when you get to pchem and biochem the people left in the class are the ones who did well in the first two years of chemistry, so the better students are left while you need to do just as well against the competition (which is now stronger) to get an A.</p>
<p>^Thanks for clearing that up. It makes quite a bit of sense. While I don't doubt the validity of your previous statement, it's incredible to me that a 94 will not get you an A. It just seems inherently wrong.</p>
<p>I don't know if you remember, but you responded to a post of mine awhile back about the Vagelos program. Well, about 3 weeks ago I got an invitation and said YES!!!. </p>
<p>Chem classes for the Vagelos aren't any harder or different than regular classes a Chem major would take, correct? It's just that you take more classes? Do most Vagelos scholars get involved in research during their year at Penn? I would like to be able to do that in addition to the summer stipends.</p>
<p>Oh, and of course there's the Seminar, Chemistry 22. How hard is it to get an A in that course? </p>
<p>Thank you again for your help!</p>
<p>Freshmen in the Vagelos program can take Chem 101 with everyone else, Chem 101 majors section, Chem 15 (honors intro chem) or jump straight to Orgo. All of the Vag freshmen that I knew started in Chem 15, though some jumped to orgo and some took chem 101. Chem 15 was really really hard from what I was told by my friends, but it was curved to a B+ or A- (don't remember) instead of a C.</p>
<p>Probable biochem major here who just finished my first year at Penn (like Venkat). Not a Vag - but given my courses know plenty of them.</p>
<p>Never heard of the Chem classes being curved to a C+ - always imagined/heard that it used the standard B- curve, with the standard 30/30/30/10 (A/B/C/D) break down. That being said some things may be slightly (very) prof/TA dependent. I personally did not find it particularly challenging to maintain a good grade in the class - echoing Venkat here - but again I certainly here that as you hit the upper levels things get harder. I do not look forward to PChem.</p>
<p>A note - Chem 015 - which I took, doesn't even exist any more - yay for the A- curve even if it was a ridiculous amount of work.</p>
<p>Good luck with the Vag program - definitely very intense, and there is a reason for the ~80% (or more) drop out rate. Be sure you are committed to science and pretty much science only (personally thinking I might do an English major as well so....). Also keep in mind that if you drop out and intend to continue the Chem/Biochem majors you do you have to take intro labs Chem 053/054 - which are not hard, but a bit soul-sucking at times (due to monotonous calculations/lab reports etc.). Again pretty sure B- curve.</p>
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A note - Chem 015 - which I took, doesn't even exist any more - yay for the A- curve even if it was a ridiculous amount of work.
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<p>Are you sure about this? It is still included in the 2008-2009 Course Registrar.</p>
<p>And thanks for the information about the Vagelos Program. I'm very committed to biochemistry so I hope it all works out well. I'm looking forward to not having to take Chem 053/054.</p>
<p>IDk, it might be a C+/B- curve. Either way it's not too pretty if you find yourself at the wrong end of the average.</p>
<p>Anyone know about deflation/inflation in the poly sci and English departments?</p>
<p>yes - they have more inflation than Zimbabwe, English moreso than polisci</p>
<p>hmmm, that's rather unfortunate I guess. Don't get me wrong, I like getting high marks, but only when it's deserved. If I turn in shoddy work, I don't want to get an A back.</p>
<p>Are the averages in engineering sections of chemistry 101 and 102 also set to B-/C+ ?</p>
<p>Do you think it is necessary to take chem 101 and 102 in order to have a good foundation for future chemistry courses at Penn? I have heard about placing out, but does that come with a risk of maybe not having as strong of a background for upper level classes? I have heard that chemistry courses are a lot more analytical at the college level.</p>
<p>lawl at the zimbabwe comment.</p>
<p>aren’t they coming out with a 10 trillion bill? haha</p>