I am a parent to an LCPS middle schooler (8th grade). Every quarter, about 100 of her classmates (out of about 400) get straight As. Every quarter, there is a recognition night for those on the “All As” honor roll. About 80-90 make the “A-B” honor roll. My kid stopped going, after 10 (soon to be 11) straight quarters of getting all As. Our daughter is bright, but doesn’t work terribly hard (except in Latin, where her teacher expects it). English and history/civics are a joke, and not much is expected, even in “honors” classes. Math and science are a little better, but you have to be fortunate enough to get a good teacher.
She’s really hoping high school is better and more challenging. But yeah, grade inflation is a real thing and it’s getting harder for bright students to distinguish themselves via GPA alone.
@tableleg I’m afraid I have to disagree with you for these reasons:
-Some people have test anxiety, and it can prevent them from doing their best.
-These standardized exams are not necessarily a measurement of how much you know in terms of academics, but how well you know the TEST. The format of the test(s) is what you’re truly studying for, not entirely for the actual material on the test.
-Wealth is also a huge factor of your performance on the test(s). If you have money, you will be able to afford SAT or ACT prep and private tutors, whereas other families can’t. So obviously, wealthy families have a clear advantage.
-On top of this, you can take these test however many times you want to. Once again, wealth is huge factor in this. Depending on how rich your parents are, you can it 1, 2 or 10 times.
Yes, standardized tests avoid problems like cheating and bias from your teachers. But I think for these reasons, standardized testing should not be weighed more than it should be.
The more grade inflation takes hold in high schools, the less important grades become. They are virtually meaningless. Standardized tests become a more important distinguishing mark in determining who is college ready. I agree with @tableleg to a certain point.
Also, I have honestly seen a difference in acceptances to places like UVA from our FCPS HS than a somewhat similar eastern Loudoun County HS. Even with kids with similar GPAs. I’ve had some friends from this LCPS ask me, how did both of your kids into UVA? (They told me they knew only a handful of kids from their HS to get in…whereas we have 70+ a year). I honestly don’t know what is going on here…it could even be that my friends are just wrong and don’t know, I guess, but I don’t think so. I’ve had other friends’ kids get waitlisted or denied as well.
Places like Wise County have a high admission rate of 66% - but only 3 people applied. I wonder if it’s just expected for students in NOVA to apply to UVA, but not so for rural VA.
I’m from Roanoke County, and I consider our schools strong. Both my kids go to school in NY, and felt well prepared. There is, however, definite grade inflation. My kids did not play the AP game, and their GPAs suffered.
I live in Loudoun, but like so many in NoVA, am from somewhere else. One thing that is new from when I went to my non-VA HS a few decades ago was that they now award bonus points for kids that take honors or AP courses (the theory being that you aren’t punished for taking a harder course on your GPA, so that a B+ in an AP course becomes = to an A- or A in a non-AP course). In hyper-competitive Loudoun (or Fairfax) lots of kids take lots of AP courses each year. Get an A (or A+) in a course and you get more than a 4.0 credit for that course.
I think the popular VA state schools (UVA & William & Mary) understand this when they get applicants from the counties along the Potomac. There is this recognition that a school like UVA has to have students from the entire state, so they have to ration spots for the NoVA counties, and often turn down applicants with amazing credentials from that area so that their incoming class can represent the rest of the state as well.
One thing that NoVA grade inflation plus all the AP / honors courses get the students from this area, is a better shot at getting an offer from an out-of-state school, that gives them a scholarship offer that approaches or exceeds the in-state rate you get charged at UVA. This is one reason (along with the high average income levels residents of the NoVA area have) that there are all these out-of-state schools like Missouri, Maine or Kansas that show up at the local HS gym for area college fairs. If you don’t mind sending Jimmy or Julie a long way away for school, there are some great deals to be had for NoVA grads at really good schools.
Seeing as this is no longer just bumping an old thread, I might as well add some information. At the high school I’m graduating from – I won’t say which one – guidance sent all the teachers an email after the first quarter this year about grades. In it, they said that 54% of every grade on every report card (one for each class) was an A-, A, or A+. 26% were Bs. I think 11% were Cs, and it just goes down from there. I have or have had several teachers that whine about grade inflation and do some things to correct it, but a C just isn’t average like it used to be. This isn’t just Loudoun, it is like that at high schools all over the country – particularly NoVa’s counterparts in other states.
I agree with everything VADadfromMA writes. He generally overestimates the number of students who go out of state (almost half of my class will go to 4 year institutions in Virginia). Everything else he says is true.
I have a teacher who has taught at our school for 30 years. He explains that the grading system in Loudoun County has gone from one of the most stringent in the country to one of the easier ones. A long time ago, an A meant you got a 95. Back in 2008, before they changed the grading system, you had to get a 93 to get and A-. Now you only have to get a 90 to get an A-. This isn’t entirely an anomaly because a lot of other school systems do this, but a lot are like what we used to do. Anyway, a year or two before I entered HS the changed from a 7 point per letter grade to a 10 point per letter grade grading system. They also increased the GPA boost of AP and honor classes. Before the change a student would get +.7 for an AP and nothing for an Honors. Now, we get +1 for an AP and +.5 for Dual Enrollment and Honors courses. The school board is also considering increasing the amount DE students get to match AP (which is stupid I think, because AP courses are far more difficult). The point is, there have been numerous increases in our grading scale which has caused some of the grade inflation as well.
We have lived in Loudoun for 7 years and have had countless friends whose children were ultra successful in a very competitive high school, only to be shunned by UVA and W & M. Our neighbor’s child graduated last year with a 4.45 GPA, 1380 SAT, 9 AP’s (7 with 5’s), a class officer, and honorable mention all state in a sport and was not accepted at UVA or W & M. She instead was accepted at Penn. You are not going to make me believe that there’s not a quota system. My son’s roommate at Gov School was a 1250 SAT and 4.0 weighted GPA from Western VA and got into UVA. A kid with those credentials from NOVA wouldn’t even attempt to apply to UVA. If there’s grade inflation, it’s because NOVA kids are held to a much higher SAT and GPA standard at these prestigious schools than their counterparts from other parts of VA and there are stats to prove it.
This actually is silly given that the regional AOs are so familiar with their high schools in VA (and for that matter, anywhere). It is NOT about grades, It is about rigor and taking the most difficult classes and schedule that you can. It is about challenge and not a contest on how many APs a kid can take. And @KidsinNOVA you can NOT compare one kid to another purely on GPA and test scores - like you are doing above. UVA, like many top selective schools is more holistic and looks at ECs and essays and teacher recs. I think that parents put too much stock in “my kid had higher stats than that other kid”. That is ridiculous. And having a list of ECs or leadership roles again could be padding the college resume/application or a real passion. Finally, there are just too many smart kids in this world that are applying to the same top schools. The schools can’t take them all. But, for NOVA and ROVA and any other “ovas” rely on the regional AOs to know their schools and school profile when selecting kids.
I am from out of state so I guess you could say I have no bias to any region. My take on it is that schools know which high schools have grade inflation. I think the AP results and SAT scores speak volumes. Cleary if the majority of ‘A’ students can’t get a 4 or 5 on an Ap exam that reflects on the quality of that high schools education. Do we really think UVA doesn’t see through that? I know no one at TJ but after looking at the rigor of their program and the scores it doesn’t shock me that such a high percentage get in to Uva. The number of acceptances to Ivy’s is unheard of in other places. So clearly the Uva isn’t the only school that sees recognized the quality of a Tj education.
Interesting thread but at the end of the day our kids futures are in their own hands. We can only give them the tools to be successful it is up to them to use them.
You can choose to believe something false or you can accept the truth. There is no quota for any high school, town, county, or region when it comes to UVA admission.
I get it. Even though we have the highest Avg. SAT in NOVA, our rigor doesn’t match high schools in the rest of the state. I would like to see colleges release the average SAT and GPA and AP scores f on each region of VA. Then I’ll believe there’s no bias. When kids get into Stanford and Princeton but not UVA and W &M there’s an issue.
@KidsinNOVA I was responding to your assertion that there is a quota. There isn’t one.
For many of us who grew up with a standardized, unweighted GPA, the way schools do things now can be confusing. The Commonwealth lets local districts establish the grading school and GPA method. The average GPA stat winds up being meaningless as a result.
We have AP, IB, DE, magnet, governor’s, and AICE schools in Virginia (and schools that have opted out of offering those sorts of advanced courses completely). This is why we review applicants in the context of what is available at their school. There are exceptional students all over the state doing great work in all different kinds of programs.
UVA’s VA offer rate has been 38-40% for the last few years.
W&M’s VA offer rate has been 40-45% for the last few years.
If there was a VA student admitted to the most selective school in America and not UVA or W&M, I’m going to suggest there was a issue with character, integrity, or their recommendations.
Grades and AP scores in one class don’t demonstrate grade inflation in an entire county. Son #1 took the AP Physics test with a 104.5 fever and went straight to the hospital afterwards. He got a three. So his good (but not great) end of year grade wasn’t matched by 4 or 5 on the AP test. Also, at his NOVA high school, there are two physics teachers. One who teaches to the AP test, and one who does not. Both sons got the one who specifically told the parents at BTSN that he refuses to teach “to the test”. Oh, his grades were always lower than the other class too. Yet, Son 2 got an A and a 5. What does that mean with respect to a county practice? Nothing.
Admission stats as far as the % from each county who get accepted are available. I challenge you to find the average SAT and GPA from each county that is accepted. Everybody believes it’s “Even Steven” till they move to NOVA. We did, too. Then you find out that it’s not.
I’m not sure how someone with a character or integrity issue would be able to evade detection by Princeton or Stanford, but not UVA. Unless, of course, you’re saying that these schools’ moral standards do not compare to those of UVA. I guess this is possible as some schools may judge character and integrity differently than others.
“Our neighbor’s child graduated last year with a 4.45 GPA, 1380 SAT, 9 AP’s (7 with 5’s), a class officer, and honorable mention all state in a sport and was not accepted at UVA or W & M.”
Sorry, but even students in central Virginia with those stats are not guaranteed to make it into UVA or William and Mary. The ones that got in from my kids central Virginia HS are mostly in the Governors school program with 12-15 APs and are in the top 4% of a class of 500 with many leadership positions and selective summer programs as well as great essays and recommendations. If you are saying students with 1500+ SATs and 1-2% class ranks aren’t making it in then that would be more of a surprise. Of course even with high test scores and GPA’s you don’t know what their recommendations were like or if they actually wrote interesting essays. Look on naviance if your school uses it, what is the average SAT for the students who got in UVA or William and Mary?