grade inflation or deflation?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Chicago ✅
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<p>
[quote]
Like I mentioned earlier, I would not consider Core Bio to be a challenging class, but that doesn't mean that it's a joke.

[/quote]
This is a good point. Language classes, for instance, are not really challenging. For the most part, they are not intellectually hard to grasp (there are a few exceptions, of course). That does not make all language classes at all colleges gut courses. They require attendance, participation, and hard work; just because the subject matter is not challenging does not mean that the classes are easy or BS.</p>

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<p>I will agree with CesareBorgia in that in most Core sequences, it is rather easy to pull off a good grade without too much work. In my HUM course, the lowest grade on the last paper was a B-, and there was only one of them. In a friend's Calculus course, the professor has adamantly stood by a policy of not giving grades below a B-. The only people I know who aren't in A-/B+ range in their Core sequences are those who spend way too much time drinking (/smoking at Hookah) and hardly any time at the library, and these people have B/B-s.</p>

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<p>From my own experiences with Core, I found that grade curves and expectations vary from prof to prof. I got a few A papers that I felt were not A-quality with one of my profs, but in another quarter, I was slaving away for a C. There's not that much consistency within a department or within a core sequence, and while some might have a B- floor, others will not. </p>

<p>If you check out teacher evaluations, you'll see that quite often, more than half of the students in the class will be expecting A-range grades, but students often also report spending 6+ hours a week on a 3-hour class. (More for introductory language sequences, honors analysis, science classes, etc). Assuming that there's a correlation between hours spent per week on a class and grades, that means that the students who are getting A's are working pretty hard for them. Is that grade inflation or grade deflation? I don't know, you tell me.</p>

<p>I'm actually rather surprised you got this much information about grades out of your friends! With my cohort, we're a "don't ask, don't tell" group-- we assume that we're all doing well for ourselves-- however we define "doing well."</p>

<p>I will agree with you, though, that everybody has a different approach to the work/play balance, and I think your anecdote shows that "Where Fun Comes to Die" is something that's only as true as you want it to be. I know students on both ends of the spectrum (those who routinely study on a Saturday night, those who don't crack the spines of their hum books until last minute) and I don't have any idea about their level of academic performance, grades, etc., but I do know that they are happy with the way things are going for them and that they enjoy the academic environment.</p>

<p>I've found that Core classes are easier in comparison to the other beasts that are out there, and your friends who are super-slacking off will have to step up a bit, if not next quarter, then most likely next year.</p>

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<p>I also don't want to talk smack about other institutions, as I know one can get a great (and challenging! yes, even more challenging than the U of C if you want!) education at them, but I do want to point out the existence of what are considered "gut" classes, as listed and described by a Yale student. Perhaps some of these are a gross exaggeration and there's definitely an intentional humor, but I would not be able to parody Core Bio in quite the same way. If you decide not to show up to core bio and do not remember everything you did in bio AP, I can promise you won't do well:</p>

<p>Ivy</a> League: What Are The Gut Classes At Yale?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I'm actually rather surprised you got this much information about grades out of your friends! With my cohort, we're a "don't ask, don't tell" group-- we assume that we're all doing well for ourselves-- however we define "doing well."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There's certainly a "don't ask" policy among my friends, but not a "don't tell" policy. I think it is commonly known around here that your grades reflect the variation in difficulty of profs/classes and the amount of work you put into certain courses - not actual intelligence. It seems as if everyone here is at the same level of intelligence, actually, and no one is considered smarter than anyone else; so really, there's a general perception that if so-and-so wanted an A, he/she could get it, as long as he/she put it enough effort. Therefore, a B or a C really isn't something to be ashamed of*, and if you want to let out your thoughts about your classes and your grades onto your friends, it's okay. I was talking to someone the other day, and this person was apparently getting Bs and Cs in his non-honors math courses; however, I was surprised when I was able to strike up a conversation about measure theory. I wouldn't be surprised if he knew more than some of the people in honors math courses getting As. Clearly, grades don't reflect too much about knowledge/intelligence, so it's not given too much consideration.</p>

<p>Asking, however, is rude, and I've never asked nor been asked about grades. Of course, I do have friends who seem to be rather conscious of their grades, so I never bring up the topic around them. I don't know how they keep it all inside, though - it would bother me to death... unless they're so apathetic that grades don't strike them as significant in any way.</p>

<ul>
<li>Moreover, Bs and Cs don't really even show laziness. I've heard a few instances of where someone is writing a paper on Marx or whatever and will get sidetracked and read an entire off-topic book. It's what intellectual curiosity does to you, and it can sometimes have quite the effect on your grades.</li>
</ul>

<p>And there's a class called "Geometry of Nature" at Yale? ...</p>

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<p>
[quote]
It seems as if everyone here is at the same level of intelligence, actually, and no one is considered smarter than anyone else; so really, there's a general perception that if so-and-so wanted an A, he/she could get it

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Ha, ha, ha, ha, very not true for me. On the other hand, I'm convinced I'm the stupidest person that attends this school. That's a good thing rather than a bad thing.</p>

<p>Grades are a measure of how much you have conformed to the professors' expectations, not necessarily about how smart you are, how cute you are, how insightful you are, etc. I had the same problem as your B and C friends throughout high school, and I too got B's and C's on papers in high school. Now I'm getting A's and B's and C's. Lots of diversity.</p>

<p>I've been in few situations where friends have been even compelled to discuss grades, and I'm also aware that I might be self-selecting with my friends in that I'm attracted to people who are not particularly concerned with academic performance.</p>

<p>I think there are things we can agree upon, though:</p>

<p>-- Students do get A's, but they do a lot of work for them.
-- Doing a lot of work will not give you an A automatically (Core Bio/NatSci may be the exceptions here) so don't do a lot of work only because you want that A. That's silly. You'll hate this school to pieces if you do that.
-- A "show up an get an A" class is a purple unicorn at the U of C. Either you're lying or hallucinating.
-- Students also slack off occasionally, the "slackers" usually fall in the B- range. (As I've mentioned, though, I'm not a slacker and I've gotten lower than B- grades).
-- It's very, very, very easy to attend school here and not care at all about your GPA. If you don't expect to enter any kind of tug-of-war and are just here to have fun, take challenging classes, and do as much as you can with them, you'll be like me.</p>

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<p>I preface this by saying it is my limited and idiosyncratic opinion, as are all other postings to this thread:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I concur that for most of the student body grades are not a social matter. Most students deal with them internally. It is very clear that some are quite concerned, and others frankly could care less. Thankfully, courses tend to be discussed in a mostly substantive light both inside and outside of the classroom. On the contrary, as a teaching assistant at Big Ivy U for graduate school, I was flooded with grade inquires almost every day. The number of people who asked about a courses actual content I could count on one finger. This is one of the stark differences of the “life of the mind” mentality. </p></li>
<li><p>Whatever ones personal sentiments on the matter, grades do matter a lot to most employers and certainly for graduate school. Your personal brilliance or knowledge of Marx matters very little. You can be a complete tool who regurgitates trite ideas in all your paper / exams, and if you put in the right number of hours, you will get a very solid GPA. In this vein, no matter where you go to school, it is a bad idea to write a paper flagrantly contradicting your professor as an undergraduate, or to be the person who always asks an off beat question during a seminar. This is not to say that the intellectual environment is dead, but there is a phase that is used by many core teachers to the common tune of…</p></li>
</ol>

<p>“We debate books on their own merits, within their own respective realm of logic and history.” </p>

<p>Playing the “God is dead” card if you are reading St. Augustine is basically asking for a ‘C’.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I tended throughout college to associate myself with people who ended up going to the more vaunted graduate programs. I cannot really say how much you can slack to pull out a B- or something, but I can say that making general honors, a 3.25, is decently taxing, and pulling out a 3.5+ can be downright nasty at times. Frankly, perusing the list of people who made Phi Beta Kappa or who won majors awards at the school’s annual ceremony, there definitely appeared to me to be strong commonalties amongst these students. Most had excellent attendance, all worked solidly on weekends (biggest factor), and pulled out all the stops during finals weeks. If you think you are going to get to Stanford Law without putting in a handful of all nighters each quarter, you are bound to be disappointed. That being said, many of these same students loved the school and the education it gave them. </p></li>
<li><p>I felt that the spread of students both intellectually and with respect to work ethos at UChicago was wide enough to the point that it proved detrimental to the classroom / student body a few years back. This is changing very rapidly though. As the school places more emphasis on hard statistics in admissions like SAT scores, it is getting closer to the ideal that every student admitted has the potential to succeed. Ten years ago when the admissions rate was over 60%, I do not really believe this was true. Some of the people who were fourth years when I were a first year seriously made me ponder if they should be at any institution of higher education, never mind Chicago. They lacked the personal skills to live alone, engage in a structured work environment, and so on.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Good post, especially #3.</p>

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<p>I'm also in agreement with everything you say. The students whom I've known who have fared well (whether it be Goldman Sachs or PhD programs) are also married to their work. These are the kinds of people who would be superinvolved in their work no matter what institution they attended, though the University of Chicago, I'm sure, gave them more of a valve in which they could pour out their dedication to their studies, be respected for it by fellow students, and be challenged by their professors.</p>