Grade Inflation or Smart, Hard-Working Kids?

Parents Forum
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<p>kjofkw:</p>

<p>I have not seen hs that do not grade, although my Ss' elementary school did not; I have also seen some transcripts from colleges that did not grade. In both cases, I have felt there was an awful lot of waffling. Parents used to complain, after reading the report, "Is my child doing well, or just so-so? I can't tell from all this verbiage." Profs I know had similar reactions after reading paragraphs after paragraphs covering four years' worth of courses for a single applicant.</p>

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<p>St Anne's in Brooklyn (I think it is Brooklyn, definitely in NYC) does not give grades. And those kids have the highest % going to the top schools. But I can tell you that it is a very selective school and the kids do very well on the college boards. The problem with no grades, is that the test scores then take on an increased importance. If a student does not test well, it can be a problem. I see this with homeschooled kids a lot. Several kids I have known who were very well educated but not well test prepped in their classical approach home schooling just did not do that well on the college boards, and it really affected their acceptances, and scholarships. I have worked with several homeschooling clusters (and am working with them as I type), in getting those test scores up since so much depends on them.</p>

<p>I agree with Marite's assessment on non grading report cards. S2 went to a public elementary school that did not grade. Glowing assessment. When he did not make it into the gifted program, I found out that his place in the class was smack in the middle and you needed to be at least in the top 20% to be considered. So what did this most marvelous wriiten assessment mean? It didn't tell me a danged thing. The standardized test he took put him about in the middle of his peer group as well. You get no idea where your child stands academically without some sort of a grading system, even if it is just an O=outstanding, S=Satisfactory, I-improvement needed.</p>

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<p>I think that grades motivate kids but how much and when - that is very individual. I watched my son through four years of HS and I don't think I every saw him bring a grade up with a final exam unless he was in danger of dropping below a "B". With two report periods I saw lots of B+A combos that could have been brought up to an A for the semester with a little effort. On the other hand two low B+B grading periods that could drop to a C with a poor final and he would Ace the thing. Why wouldn't he do that the rest of the semester? Yeah I'm just one of a million parents would like the answer to that.</p>

<p>First semester of college he was running about a 2.5 after mid-terms and he needs a 2.7 to keep his merit money. No merit money and it is back home and ride the bus to the the local Community College and he Aces his finals and ends up with a 3.5.</p>

<p>Second semester freshman year he is still running scared and the mid-terms are great so what happens? You guessed it he slacks on the finals, A-'s turn to B's etc. Still ends up with a 3.3 but long face when he doesn't qualify for honor society by a few hundredths of a point cummulative GPA. Well all of that is human nature I guess or one kind of human nature.</p>

<p>For younger kids I am not sure how important grading is and I do think it can potentially be harmful to some kids. On the other hand there are born hoop jumpers who even in the third grade will do anything for the approval and feedback of an "A". I guess in the end I think there ought to be more choices for parents in the kids of schools they send their kids to because one size probably doesn't fit all.</p>

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<p>pat - my high school got rid of all final exams when i was a senior - so my little sister will never of taken a final exam untill she goes to college. i find that amusing. I understand why they did it though.</p>

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<p>Neither my kid was ever a grade grubber; I have seen my share of uninformative report cards. One would never have guessed from his report cards that S was bored to the point of rebellion by the math curriculum; on the other hand, we learned either that he was helpful to other students or that he did not communicate sufficiently.</p>

<p>Narrative reports from colleges are time-consuming to read (try reading 600 in about a week while also carrying your other duties) and do not always provide the information that admission committees seek: is the applicant well prepared enough for studies in graduate school? Having to decide whether to give a student either an A- or a B+ concentrates the mind wonderfully.
I think a number of schools realized that they were jeopardizing their students' chance by retaining the narrative reports and adopted the grade system. If I remember correctly, UCSC did so.</p>

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<p>I'd just like to echo the fact that others have mentioned here, that the most important thing to UVA is grades. At least from what I saw last year going through the admissions process (I was deferred then rejected with a very good app, the only "blemish" was a 3.55 gpa).</p>

<p>Also like some have said, going to the magnet school can hurt you, as you compete against all the other top students for the spots at select schools, where going to the home high school would have made you the #1 candidate, you possibly fall out of the top 10% or even top half. (TJ doesn't rank) TJ happens to be the magnet program that draws from an area that does very well academically in its own right, as others have said, it's quite an affluent area on the whole. I will add though that the TJ kids going to the top schools are not "just smart kids." They are active in other things, and if they are academic related, they are winning those big awards (intel, etc).</p>

<p>Drawing the best students from one of the best areas of the country I suppose numbers like that can be expected, I don't think they would be any lower if TJ didn't exsist, just that the scores would be spread out more over the entire school systems of northern va, rather than concentrated in one school. With the best students at TJ, many of the "normal" public schools in the area still average 1100+ as a whole on their SATs. </p>

<p>Entrance to TJ is very competitive, the entrance exam is essentially a math and english part, which is kind of like the SAT. 2600+ students apply for the top 400 spots. The top 800 go onto the next round, where you need teacher recs and activity sheets (not unlike applying to college), but basically the top 400 scores get taken.</p>

<p>My elementary school graded on achievement and effort, using O[utstanding], G[ood], S[satisfactory], and N[eeds improvement]. And then using A/B/C etc for achievement starting in 4th grade. It was always a point of pride to get an A in achievement and anything other than an O in effort, lol.</p>

<p>As far as algebra in 7th grade, there was a test open to 6th grade students (mostly it was only taken by those in the GT program, but others could if they wished), and if you scored high enough on the test you had the option of taking algebra.</p>

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<p>My vote: grade inflation</p>

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<p>soccerguy said, "Also like some have said, going to the magnet school can hurt you, as you compete against all the other top students for the spots at select schools, WHERE GOING TO THE HOME HIGH SCHOOL WOULD HAVE MADE YOU THE #1 CANDIDATE..."</p>

<p>(caps mine.) Although I agree with the first part of your statement, I disagree with the part in caps. In my experience, there is a small group of very savy, hard-working, intelligent kids at every high school - and they are every bit as smart as students at the top of other programs, even magnet programs. What is different is the rest of the group at the non-magnet schools; the body of students may not be nearly as good. Kids who are middle of the pack at top private or magnet schools and who assume that they would be top-dog at regular public schools are deluding themselves. Still, I agree that it is easier to get into good colleges if you are val at a regular public school w/ great SAT's than ranked 50% at a magnet or top private school.</p>

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<p>My wake up call came a few years ago when I saw that kids graduating with top grades from our "good" public high school were getting their butts kicked in college. In the UC system, they don't expect very high test scores. So these kids with 4.0 plus and decent SATs found out how easy the high school As had been very quickly.</p>

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<p>Anxiousmom, the situation has come up several times where kids left a rigorous prep school where they were in the middle of the pack and were top students at the local highschool or parochial school. This happened with my son. He was a B-C astudent at his prep school. One of the top at the Catholic highschool. No, he was not #1, but he was in the top 10 out of 200 in his graduating class, and he was in the bottom 40% at his prep school. My son still stays in contact with a young man who flunked out of their prep school. He is #1 at his highschool and was accepted early at an elite school where kids did not get in from my son's prep school with similar SAT scores. A bitter pill for them. So it does happen. </p>

<p>However, water does tend to seek its own level, and most of the time the reign at the top does seep downward as the kid gets more comfortable. My son's grades went down steadily as his comfort range was the B-C level. It is a testament to the grade inflation at that highschool that he did not get down there, as he worked mighty hard to do so. But he was a better writer in 10 minutes for a 2 hour assignement than most of the kids going there,and he had a much stronger base than those kids, and it really showed. He could have been top 5 in that school, had he pursued the matter. True, there were some conscientious students there, but if the school had been smaller, it was entirely possible that S could have been top 3. He had the second highest SAT that year. He had the highest AP score (averaging all the APs), he had the highest SAT2s. </p>

<p>S is still in contact with those kids from that catholic school and the prep school. A number of tthe catholic school kids did not continue with college. Whereas he does not know one from the prep school who is not in his last year or graduated. He does not know a single one, including the slackers from the prep school that had any academic problems in college. They found it a piece of cake. Not so the grade inflated kids who struggled.</p>

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<p>Totally agree Jamimom, this has been exactly my experience having kids in good publics and good privates. It is not necessarily that the kids are smarter at the prep schools, although they are extremely selective, but they are so much better prepared that a few years at the good prep schools in our area seems to guarantee you'll be a top student if you transfer to the publics. I've just seen it time and again. Also, I have not seen a single prep school graduate have anything near the problems our top public grads are having in college. It's why I'm going broke with tuition for my youngest 3.</p>

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<p>You get your education in high school. The you go to college!</p>

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<p>The answer re grade inflation is that it varies by school. At my S's PHS only 10% have A averages and the school is very proud of that. 16 (!) in a class of 135 - even the school was (pleasantly) shocked at that this year. An unusually strong class.</p>

<p>Colleges know that grade inflation is a huge variable - that is why they want, not just your kid's stats, but a profile of the school. How many AP/H classes? What % get what grades.</p>

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<p>I'm gathering from several posts that not all HS do as my S's. Thorough profile sent with every app, showing % in each grade category (98-100, 95-98,93-95); range of AP/H courses offered, # of NMSF etc.</p>

<p>Maybe our HS does this only because they are proud of "no grade inflation" and other schools don't do it?</p>

<p>If not all HS do profiles, that does put some kids at a serious disadvantage when competing with schools where there are 24 valedictorians and 55% A's.</p>

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<p>Oops. that's 16 out of 135 NMSF or commended. 5 SF, 11 commended.</p>

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<p>The school my sons attend also sends a school profile along with each transcript. It contains general info about the school (enrollment, faculty info, requirements, curriculum...) and details about SAT, SAT II, GPA, AP, and NMS results for this graduating class. It also includes a list of all colleges admitting students in the past 3 years (with the number admitted), and highlights those where students matriculated. I would think something like this would be especially helpful where colleges aren't familiar with the high school.</p>

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<p>Doesn't the Common App have a required "School Profile" form? When I pulled the App online it came with teacher rec forms and a school profile form. I assumed you had to submit those forms with the common app. Are they optional?</p>

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<p>I think you mean School Report rather than School Profile. It is the recommendation form for the guidance counselor to fill out. It lists the courses the student is taking, as well as the guidance counselors evaltion. The School Profile could be attached to it by the GC.</p>

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<p>btw, grammarians: why does "A's" as the plural of "A" LOOK more correct to me than writing "As" - which one is correct?</p>

<p>not sure if this was answered because this thread is too damn long but- A's is correct. not As</p>

<p>a special function of the apostrophe is for plural letters</p>

<p>read this out of the grammar book called Eats, Shots & Leaves</p>

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<p>I have read that with things like "A's" and "1940's", one should use the apostrophe for clarity, but it is alright to write "As" and "1940s". I do not know if one is correct, but I think that the writer can choose.</p>