Grade Inflation - Visualized

Student Lounge College Life
61

<p>@bernie12. I don’t know about your public school. I was merely commenting on the local nine public high schools in my county. Which, I have attended public school in a couple of places, and it was definitely a cake walk.</p>

<p>It is frustrating to apply to colleges with a GPA of 3.43 weighted when everyone else from your area has a 4.something weighted because they’re on a scale of 6. Furthermore, many of their classes are easier. We have a former “Teacher of the Year” from a public school and everyone takes his class because its a piece of cake and you’re basically guaranteed an A without doing anything.</p>

<p>For what it’s worth, one of the students in my class who’s going to Stanford in the fall didn’t have a perfect 4.0, so yes. It is possible to go to school and not have a perfect GPA, but I think you have to go to a solid school with a good reputation and many times, colleges can’t see the difference between school A and school B, so the student with the lower GPA, who might have actually learned more and worked harder gets shafted.</p>

<p>On the other hand, of course it makes sense for colleges to inflate their grades. Students who have higher GPA’s are more likely to get jobs and get into grad schools and colleges love advertising their employment rate after graduation or their acceptance rate into certain grad schools.</p>

62

<p>To me, it seems that the subjective grading results in higher grades not lower. Regardless of how they grade, I am a chem/bio double major that loves humanities and social sciences (I try to take more serious profs. though) because it helps to keep my writing skills sharp and also helps w/the critical thinking side as I must often come up w/my own ideas that are evidence based and present and defend them coherently. I can’t say the same for a lot of science courses. Many are, in reality, testing recall ability in a really tough fashion and don’t present much room for, or the problem types that require creativity or epiphany of any sort. There are of course many exceptions as I’ve explained.</p>

<p>The only problem with some grading rubrics for them is that it depends on what the prof. considers A,B,C level. What if many people turn in work of dramatically varying quality and the prof. still decides to lump those that would be read as poor quality if say, judged on mechanics, grammar, fact/evidence-base, and flow somewhere in the B range (and not B-). If these people get B/B+, then A papers need only be okay because the profs. standards are low. Basically, the key to figuring out the subjective grading when in these courses is to figure out you’re prof’s standards which don’t necessarily match their rubric. Often the rubrics I see are reasonable, but then you see the prof. award C/D work a B grade. By then, there is no incentive to write a great paper or to read the rubric and compare your paper to those standards. Often you can just ignore it, write 1 paper and see how that is graded and proceed to throw the rubric in the trash. This is so common, that when a prof. sticks to it, you better expect the whining to begin (“why did I get a C”, “He grades too harshly”) as we are now convinced that we are doing B/A level work in a so called “objective” sense because other profs. prior to that one indicated so. Also, many profs. (both science and social science.humanities, but more often in social science and humanities) only tell what a grade consist of w/o giving an actual grading scale either separately or on their syllabus. This allows for arbitrary grading and an invisible hand at the end that no student anticipates (but perhaps expects at a certain point in their college career). </p>

<p>I’ll show you an example how certain rubrics are subject to, well subjectivity:
<a href=“https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B456FmeCw42BN2NiZjU0NjYtNmMyZC00MTY3LTk3MzEtMGNjNDgyNzAyNzdj&hl=en_US[/url]”>https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B456FmeCw42BN2NiZjU0NjYtNmMyZC00MTY3LTk3MzEtMGNjNDgyNzAyNzdj&hl=en_US&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The grading standards seem clear, but in reality, we know that more people will get Bs and As than should be. In many classes, the C-performing students will become rare (as in the grades they get on assignments or on the transcript will not reflect this) and will probably be lumped between B-/B whereas the majority of students receive B+ or higher. I’ve been in a couple of humanities/social science classes that flat out assign numbers to writing assignments (like say, 86) and then assign whatever letter grade according to normal +/- scale (and then there were quizzes in said classes). These were normally the professors that were willing to actually give the C/D grades (you actually see a bigger range of scores in such classes). I often find that profs. that place letters on writing assignments often don’t go below B- (seriously, you won’t find many students below B and if you get a B+/A- and feel that your work wasn’t that great or that you were not expecting it, you can only imagine those w/lower grades). Not only that, but some put letter grade ranges on your papers (like B/B+). And then these people earning predominantly B grades on papers (say class is only writing assignments) will somehow end up with maybe an A- at the end. Why is that necessary when the Bs the students were given are already probably great acts of generosity?
Some other humanities and social science courses are just so easy and undemanding that naturally anything below B will disappear, but these don’t seem to compose the bulk of them. It seems most have a reasonable work/reading load, but don’t really hold you responsible to it or simply don’t require you to do it w/any finesse to receive a solid B. Any additional finesse can easily shoot you up to the A range.</p>

63

<p>Re: grading inflation in different subjects</p>

<p>[National</a> Trends in Grade Inflation, American Colleges and Universities](<a href=“http://www.gradeinflation.com%5DNational”>http://www.gradeinflation.com) does mention that sciences generally are about 0.3 or 0.4 GPA points lower than humanities, with engineering and social studies in between. Obviously, there could be considerable variation in each school or department.</p>

<p>One possible reason is that science courses tend to be sequenced, where the introductory course is a necessary prerequisite for another course. An instructor who gives out A or B grades to students who are not well prepared for the next course is likely to get flak from the instructors of the next course. In contrast, humanities courses tend to have fewer prerequisites and dependencies, so there is less of an issue there.</p>

64

<p>

</p>

<p>And it’s the lack of objectivity that, to the discerning mind, gives humanities respect and trust, because it’s an appreciation for the inherent subjectivity that characterizes the real world.</p>

<p>(I’m a STEM major by the way.)</p>

65

<p>My college’s council on teaching released a report on grade inflation a couple years ago. They rebutted the argument that grade inflation helps grad school prospects. People here may find it interesting:

</p>

66

<p>Now, what about schools that don’t have a particularly strong reputation for grade inflation or deflation? What would have happened to the grad school prospect of Princeton undergraduates if the new grading policy had not been publicized? </p>

<p>If you don’t have a reputation one way or another, it seems to be preferable to be slightly inflated (relative to national average) than average or slightly deflated. </p>

<p>This is only anecdotal evidence, but consider this: About two decades ago, the math department at my college has made a conscious decision to give out As like candy. Not only has that made math the single most popular major, but our math majors seem to get into way stronger graduate and professional programs than students in other majors at my college. I suspect a causal (not just correlated) relationship between the inflated math grades and our success in graduate admissions.</p>

<p>My conclusion: grade inflation does benefit students as long as graduate programs/employers are unaware of it.</p>

67

<p>Sometimes it’s not really about being perceived as inflated or deflated (even some tougher schools have some level of inflation, even if kind of small). The school needs to have a reputation for being challenging/rigorous in some aspect. When there is too much grade inflation at an institution, this claim by elite schools becomes questionable (and everyone knows it, so students at said schools better do like they did in HS and just do 1 million ECs because academic record is not as meaningful anymore. The curriculum isn’t challenging about 1/2 or more of the student body. And no, I don’t consider getting B+/A- as being challenged). If anything, it’s figuring out the appropriate level of inflation. I personally think elite private schools can fall between 3.15-3.3 and still be considered rigorous as it indicates that even non-sciences probably have reasonable standards attached to them. I also take into account that the smaller environment of most elite private schools does provide its own advantages (as in over say, elite public schools) that indeed influence grades aside from straight up easier grading. For example, learning and aid resources may be far more accessible or effective in such an environment. In a more challenging course, a professor is more likely to work closer w/students or try various pedagogical methods to ensure a solid chance of success for all students (will explain below). In general, there may be less traditional lecture format courses at these institutions and more discussion/seminar styled courses. With this said, once the 3.3 line (especially 3.35) is crossed (as it has been by most), that isn’t but so great and the institution should find other ways to challenge the caliber of students that attend the institution (why not do this instead of implementing a grade distribution?). Perhaps time to raise to standards given that the old ones are archaic if the students are supposedly better. Why keep them fixed when we are capable of doing much more?
Georgia Tech is not particularly deflated or inflated (here I think a lot of their increase could probably be explained by a better student body as now their average is 3.07-3.1) but is known for being hard and thus some grad/professional schools apparently do some sort of algorithm/multiplier when such a person applies for admissions. At Georgia Tech, the problems w/grading seem to lie in the introductory courses that engineers have to take (physics, math courses). These courses are extremely difficult and the curve is not recentered as much as it is at elite private institutions w/extremely tough intro. sequences (as in content wise), but at least they make grading data public so that employers and incoming students will know. Professors in the math and physics department seem to be grading about .5-1.0 lower than those at private institutions (and their gen. physics class can give these schools a run for the money in difficulty) which doesn’t seem justified by SAT score differences. Their SATs are nearly the same as ours (we are about 1400. I’m thinking Georgia Tech has the highest SATs at a public school, at least math and verbal scores) and thus don’t differ much from our other top 20 peers in terms of student quality (w/exception of maybe top 10 schools, particularly Caltech and MIT). Their grading in chemistry, engineering courses, and biology seems to follow the general trend for elite schools that would be grading a tad lower in those subjects (I have the feeling that us, JHU, Vanderbilt, MIT, Caltech, and maybe Cornell would fall here).
Here’s a look at a grade distribution table for calc. II at Tech. It indicates that the class is brutal and several profs. hand out plenty D/F grades:<br>
[SGA</a> Course Critique | Search Course Critique](<a href=“http://sga2.gatech.edu/critique/Search.php?Department=MATH&CourseNumber=1502]SGA”>http://sga2.gatech.edu/critique/Search.php?Department=MATH&CourseNumber=1502)
Also, hasn’t Reed increased about to about a 3.1-3.15 average GPA. Princeton having a 3.26 puts it in the ballpark of MIT and Johns Hopkins. These latter two have huge science and engineering presences, probably much larger than other peers that fall in the 3.3-3.4 range, whereas Princeton has a good one, but certainly not as large as those two meaning that more than likely the policy has reigned in the inflation in the humanities and social sciences more than anything else. I honestly don’t think 3.26 is a bad number for an elite private school. It kind of indicates that you are more rigorous/have higher standards across a larger amount of disciplines than other schools. We could afford such a policy, but I would expect us to land at a perfect B+ (3.3) as we don’t have an engineering school that will inevitably drag some students GPAs down (as many more must take many more math classes and the calc. based physics series at such schools). The fact that we are .01 away from 3.4 means that some depts. no longer challenge students because it’s clear that the science depts. still do challenge a reasonable amount (again some averages are in the 2s and science majors compose 20-25% of the student body upon graduation, somehow these 2s are completely neutralized and overtaken in other depts). </p>

<p>As for “gatekeeper” courses: That is true, but at the same time, even when you get to upperlevel science courses, which are by and large special topic and are thus disjointed, the grading is still significantly lower than humanities/social science courses. Some of these classes may actually employ assignments other than exams and quizzes. In fact many may primarily incorporate case studies (many w/open ended questions that are supposed to be done just as an essay in non-science course. You know, with an opinion on the question that is supported by sufficient evidence from various research presented or found, that is then constructed in a coherent manner), problem-sets, and writing assignments. Somehow these professors, even having a significant amount of assignments with more subjective grading, still end up w/lower grades, so it’s very simple, standards are higher (and they can get away w/it, because students in the sciences expect it because of previous courses). I now kind of realize the “subjective” card doesn’t really work. Subjectivity shouldn’t=arbitrary and student determined standards. I bet that standards can be raised and enforced if professors communicate them clearly (and not necessarily via some grading rubric) and thoroughly. Just because grading is somewhat subjective should not give us the right to turn in “high-class” crap (think of the dressed up rambling, unsupported, argumentation some refer to, this is but one example). The prof. must say that they expect a reasonable amount and that there are consequences for not meeting the demands from the start. Then they must go forth and enact those consequences (not back down). If people don’t agree w/having to perform at a high level in writing/critical thinking intensive class after the demands and expectations are announced that first day, they may feel free to leave. Also, if high standards are set, it helps to work closely with the students to ensure and help them achieve it.<br>
One such high standard in a writing intensive course may be: Since they are trying to “improve” writing throughout the course, make clear that writing at the same level on 2 papers will result in a lower grade on the second one, especially if the types of mistakes are nearly identical and are as prevalent as before. But again, make sure that this is clear and work closely w/students to make the goal attainable (as students are less likely to feel out on a limb and will have plenty of help in a challenging environment). If more profs. in the humanities and social sciences had time to do this, I bet people’s writing would actually improve and grading standards could be raised w/o neccessarily employing some grade distribution (basically, standards are high, but everyone can meet them as they are clear and cut and the prof. is helping you achieve the goals of the course). I have had several professors in the social sciences/humanities like this, and it has really helped a lot. It raised the level of writing while also stimulating more engagement in the material (a teacher w/high standards that works very close with and cares for students seems to get a lot more engagement than those who don’t), and plenty of people received good grades B/A range, but by the end, we could definitely say we worked for and deserved it (my African Religions class comes to mind).</p>

68

<p>bernie12 has brought up many great points!</p>

69

<p>

</p>

<p>Now if only he could learn to use paragraphs</p>

70

<p>This is a forum, I’m not gonna go through the pains of formatting my responses. This isn’t a word document, I won’t indent, and I don’t feel the need to partition when some issues go together to present a single point. I will be more nitpicky in a more formal adress/setting, not here. It is unnecessary. You’ll have to get over it (seriously, I’m sorry if you don’t like that I did not put an additional break between each point). Just read it (or not) and be glad I went point by point!</p>

71

<p>

</p>

<p>Isn’t it something a college student should do naturally?
If they can be asked to write whole essays for little forums.</p>

72

<p>

yeahyoustickittoemthatsthewaytodoitthisisonlya forumafterallnoformatwooooojustreaditornot andbegladtherearetwospaces</p>

73

<p>I don’t think this site can be considered a little forum, sorry. This site is huge and has too many discussions going on to be considered little. Also, my “essay” was split into the points I wanted to present (and my words were spaced). People reading it will get the point (if you have trouble then so be it. Ask for clarification and I will provide you a minimally formatted answer that gets the point across). I’m not doing it like a word document, get over it. I did the minimal amount of formatting to make it readable.</p>

74

<p>People at my school have grown accustom to thinking that their grades are better than they really are. This one girl in my French class has a 93 weighted GPA (which is only about 70th percentile in my school) and she went around exclaiming how she had a 4.0 GPA because “CollegeBoard says a 4.0 GPA is from a 93-100.” I nearly died of laughter…</p>

75

<p>

</p>

<p>All forums are little, really. In life. Internet debates in general.</p>

76

<p>One could claim that all debates are little, especially if they don’t propose solutions. Until then (and when someone attempts a solution) a debate is all talk.<br>
I was referring only in context of the size of an internet forum/chatroom. I said nothing about “real life”. At least we are discussing real life issues. Now, go forth (on your own) and continue to argue about an issue that is off-topic. I’m presenting my opinions as they pertain to highered. If you simply want to concern yourself w/the fact that I didn’t present in the appropriate style and format of a college essay, then do it alone. Say your last piece, and then I will read it and disengage. Don’t expect a response unless it specifically addresses this issue of grade inflation or standards in highered. The fact that my formatting suddenly becomes a subject of debate befuddles me (I certainly didn’t care as long as it was readable). Guess the thread has died.
Sam: That’s great!</p>

77

<p>Ah, yes. The effort expended by pressing the enter button a few times is quite incredible. Frankly, I don’t know how I manage it. Suppose it has to do with my incredible pinky strength.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>The funny part is that it wouldn’t have become a debate if not for your snarky response to what was a rather unserious and uncondemning comment.</p>

78

<p>Your comment was quite snarky (you essentially asked for a response when you posted, whether you found it serious or not. You must know this), that’s why it got the deserving response it did. The fact that you care about the darned spaces/enter button more than others deserved a response. The formatting of my posts aren’t meant to please you. I will push the enter button when “I” please. If I don’t think to push it at the time, I’m not going to go through the effort of going back through and pushing “enter” twice with you in mind because it isn’t worth it. By the end of my post, my mission has been accomplished (if not, I will edit, and it will be content, not format). If it is readable/comprehensible, I will leave it as is. You can choose whether or not to deal w/this decision (hopefully it isn’t worth it to you to do so, but you have proven otherwise). You chose to deal w/it. I found it unnecessary and expressed that it was so. End of discussion, return to topic at hand. Time to move on.<br>
Even the actual topic of this forum is generally hopeless anyway. There are several explanations w/no foreseeable solutions, at least ones that will be enacted by a larger pool of “leading” institutions any time soon. I’ve presented what I think about it. Needless to say, as long as highered (especially elite institutions) functions like corporations, my opinion matters as little as my inability to please you by pushing enter twice between points.</p>

79

<p>I thought Private Schools gave less inflated grades then Public, guess I was wrong.</p>

80

<p>You’ve thought long, hard, and rationally about the topics of grading and being challenged academically in ways hardly anyone - student, administrator, prof, or parent - has. Color me impressed. </p>

<p>By the way, I’ve noticed this web site’s forums seem to almost exclusively look through the lens of elite colleges, public and private. These constitute probably less than 10 percent of all four-year schools (otherwise they wouldn’t be elite, obviously). To take the curves of rising grades noted on the web site that kick-started this discussion - which examine average grades for schools, public and private, from the elite to the very pedestrian - and assume they are representative and apply to elite schools and elite schools only, which is what some people (not you) here seem to be doing is odd. </p>

<p>Nationally there is no indication that, on an average basis, college student quality is improving year by year. In fact, on an average basis, there are solid indicators that college students are less prepared than they once were (as one might expect, since we keep increasing the percentage of high school grads that enroll in college). Arguments that the national rise in grades at both public schools and private schools is the result of smarter and better students do not hold water.</p>