<p>Ordinarylives- while I agree that the young man needs to speak with his adviser (and professor and perhaps an academic Dean asap) I would never suggest to a prospective engineer that he or she continue with the next course in the sequence after a D- even if everyone else in the class was happy with their C minus or whatever.</p>
<p>The engineering curriculum will only get tougher from here. Knowing the basics inside and out is more important than doing well in some elective senior year. Especially since the parent implies that the HS prep might have cut a few corners on the math side of the house.</p>
<p>IMHO well worth a summer course (if the kid is interested and can handle being thrown back into it) rather than spend the next three years grinding his teeth and being miserable due to a couple of holes in the foundation.</p>
<p>I know a lot of engineers. I know a lot of “I started in engineering but couldn’t hack it”. Doing well in Physics 1 can make all the difference. There’s no evidence here that this kid shouldn’t continue with engineering (unless he decides he hates it.) But plenty of evidence that a good do-over will help him substantially.</p>
<p>This is a philosophical parenting difference. My opinion is don’t butt in on the specifics unless there’s a threat to safety or a direct impact on the rest of the family. Scholarship $ affects my bottom line. Otherwise, something as specific as retaking courses is a conversation a student needs to have with his or her advisor. Unless I happen to be on the engineering faculty at said school, I cannot know how that advice impacts sequencing or anything else. Now, it may very well be that the advisor is in agreement with the majority of posters. In fact, I!d be surprised if he or she wasn’t. All I’m saying is that my job is to encourage and point the kid back towards the resources at his school.</p>
<p>After speaking with the financial aid department, my son came back with his next directive which is to contact his advisor and decide if he falls on the continuum of the program or is falling off. The D is very concerning for obvious reasons to us the major one being if he struggles with the intro, what does three years from now look like? </p>
<p>But if it’s a case of taking it over/tutoring/constant monitoring next year to get past “the conceptualizing physics” hump, then we will put our faith in our son and let him move forward. Although not independently wealthy by any stretch, the end will justify the “cost” for us.</p>
<p>Thanks to all the advice. It is very appreciated. As non-college educated parents, we sometimes find ourselves in a unfamiliar realm and need a college alumni perspective from people who may have found themselves at a college crossroads such as this .</p>
<p>An anecdote: My dad took physics maybe four times until he passed. He went on to do very, very well in his engineering courses (~3.7 GPA) and today is a very successful (knock on wood!) and well- respected mechanical engineer in his field.</p>
[quote]
My dad took physics maybe four times until he passed. He went on to do very, very well in his engineering courses (~3.7 GPA) and today is a very successful (knock on wood!) and well- respected mechanical engineer in his field.p/quote]</p>
<p>One of my fraternity brothers finally passed differential equations, barely, the second semester of his senior year. He went on to a very successful career as a metallurgical engineer and recently retired from a senior engineering position with one of the major steel manufacturers.</p>
<p>My younger son is a freshman Physics major at a California State University who will be taking his finals next week. He took Calculus I in the fall and is taking Calculus II along with Physics I this semester. Calculus I as a prerequisite and Calculus II as a co-requisite for Physics I is pretty standard. My son got two As and one B on his three Physics I midterms and hopefully will be busy studying this weekend to get an A on the final. Nearly all of his classmates in Physics I are Engineering majors. To give you an idea how brutal this course is, my son just told me that of 80 students who started the semester in Physics I, there are now only 26 students who are still enrolled in the course.</p>
<p>Does Physics I have moment of inertia? I recalll proving out moment of inertia for various shapes could be a PITA. But you’re right, I think I had the easiest time in Classical Mechanics.</p>
<p>Merry - I would tell him not to take so many ‘core’ courses like that all at once - I don’t know what all is required of his major but maybe he should schedule a gym or an art or a history or an english… just something different to give his brain a break from math and the ability to focus on something else.</p>
<p>Also, i really struggled my 2nd semester of freshman year (which it sounds like is where he got into trouble too). I think my GPA was close to what he received. It was my first time scheduling on my own and I really just made a mess… Sometimes it helps to know the professors and their style of teaching vs your style of learning. I wound up getting a D in a core course and had to re-take it the following semester (took it with a different prof). It was a pre-req for two other courses I had to take so I needed a C or above. The next time around I got an A. I knew the material the first time around, but his testing method and my brain weren’t on the same page. I received A’s on both of the courses taken after it as well. That time, it was just the prof.</p>
<p>I took 18 credits each semester my first three years and my first semester of senior year, and then dropped down to 12 credits my last semester due to having senior capstone type courses and having a ton of group work, projects, and papers. (I graduaed with more credits then I needed, but fit in 2 minors. I was 2 classes shy of my 3rd minor but decided to focus on my ‘capstone’ courses instead of finishing it off with yet another 18 credit semester). I also worked my way through college so that took up time as well. I remember my first semester of senior year - I was working about 40 hours a week between two jobs and taking 18 credits - mostly at the 400 level. My one prof told me after class to take it easy and not burn myself out - I told him I was ok - wound up getting the highest grade in his class! :)</p>
<p>It took a few semesters, but I got my grades back to my definition of acceptable… and when I graduated I landed a good job with a fortune 100 company.</p>
<p>I would have him ask himself if he still thinks he wants to do engineering, after all that. It’s okay to falter. If he still wants to do it, have him look back at what just happened and learn from it… pick himself up and move forward with his head high. Good luck.</p>
<p>I think if you asked for honest recollections of successful adults, you would be suprised at the number of classes that they retook, or did poorly in.</p>
Yeah, usually. Computing moments of inertia comes with rotational motion, although some instructors don’t do many of the integral ones. There’s a table for the common shapes and some practice with the parallel axis theorem.</p>
<p>Here’s what I don’t understand – does the toughness of the pre-requisites always serve as an efficient “weeding out” tool or are there kids who fail at these classes, give up engineering, yet would have made excellent engineers?</p>
<p>My child is not pursuing engineering, but up until recently she was excited to apply to her school’s undergraduate business program. She showed me the syllabus of one of the pre-requisite classes – it was tougher and more opaque than classes I took for my MBA. She is now thoroughly turned off to business (especially since her Business Econ professor wasn’t available – he was always rushing off to be on CNN) yet I believe she has a very good head for business.</p>
<p>My goal now is to restructure her major and courses to give her what I had — a solid liberal arts foundation in a variety of courses. I know this wouldn’t work for an engineer – English is no substitute for Physics – but I guess my question is: do you feel like these pre-reqs might be kicking kids to the curb who might enjoy and excel in their chosen field later on?</p>
yup. Speaking as an engineer who struggled in several courses. For the kids who go into college having taken AP Calc BC, AP physics, etc these weed out classes are probably no big deal. For others who came from a school that did not prepare them well, why can’t they take things a little slower? A pre-engineering year maybe?? A five year program. This country struggles to get kids interested in STEM and for those that are but need more preparation, we stick them in these huge weeder classes, throw tons of work at them, give them TA’s who sometimes do not speak very good english and expect them to succeed. When they start to struggle, and don’t immediately seek help (as many of our 18yo’s are reluctant to do) we figuratively kick them in the head, tell them they stink and send them down another path. yikes.</p>
<p>Class of -I think our all depends on the school. some of the stuff I did in business undergrad is harder then what i’ve seen friends do for their mba. But I honestly do feel those classes gave me a one up on everyone else. If she can get through the first couple, it will all come together.</p>
<p>The “weeding out” procedure is the one element in my son’s situation I’m struggling with. As much as we want him to perservere and move forward, it is for naught, as the classes continue to increase in difficulty? </p>
<p>Freshman year is difficult enough and although his work load was massive in the sense that it was predominantly math-based with no brain-break, that may be just what they are attempting to do; weed out the weaker students. </p>
<p>He’ll be speaking with his advisor today and then we will go from there.</p>
<p>Off topic: I joined CC only this week after being a “lurker” for years and I am amazed at the positive, informative, point-blank responses my post has received. We are struggling with this and appreciate it all!</p>
<p>Merry- there’s no evidence yet that your son is one of the weaker students. Ample evidence that he’s got tenacity and is a hard worker- two qualities which will serve him well in engineering.</p>
<p>Check in with us after the meeting with the adviser. Will be good to get his/her perspective and also good to get an ally!!!</p>
<p>The classes will get harder but your son will start to realize how to prepare and different ways to study. He’ll also learn which professors to take and which not too take, if possible. Freshman year is just a giant learning curve for everyone.</p>
<p>many of my freshman year courses were multiple choice type exams and not easy ones… The kind where they are tricky…like two very close answers but only one was right type thing… I’m not the greatest at that kind of testing… I’ve gotten better over time… But i’m still an essay or just let new do the math problem girl. When I got into my higher courses it was a ton of project work, research, presentations, papers, things like that… Much like the real world. I’m currently working on three or four projects at work while training two new people to my department. I still have multiple choice exams when it comes to continuing ed courses, but I’ve pretty much got it down now. College is all about learning to multitask efficiency, imho.</p>
<p>After the first exam of the semester he should look at it and see where the prof got the questions. Were they similar to ones in the text book? If so, maybe he or she uses the text book pre made exams and he should study the book, do practice tests, and go through the questions at the end of each chapter to prepare. Were they made up questions out of lecture information? If so, take better notes moving forward. Is he not getting a concept but the person who sits next to him is? Don’t be afraid to ask if you can study together. I had a guy ask if he could study with me for an exam junior year… I didn’t even know him! But we wound up studying together for every exam that year and it turned out we had eight other classes together by the time we graduated… It was great to have a study buddy. Honestly, he just needs too try you adapt to how the professor is doing it… And make that work for him. It will get easier over time.</p>
<p>We monitored D1’s grades freshman year to make sure she would be on the right track. I know many parents like to be hands off, but I don’t agree with that. First year is a big adjustment, it’s the first time students are completely on their own. Some kids are not matured enough to handle all that freedom on their own, and don’t know when to ask for help. When D1 struggled with her math courses, we gave her pep talk and encouraged her to see her professor during office hours.</p>
<p>My D and my nephew both struggled her first semester sophomore year. My D worked hard and stuck it out, she knew even though she was struggling she still wanted to be an engineer. She liked her engineering classes. My nephew decided to switch majors, he wasn’t thrilled with his engineering classes. That’s the question for your S, did he like his engineering classes and does he want to stick with them.</p>
<p>My D found out the hard way that she needed to spend much more time studying and at the library. It took a while but she found that you have to go to the study sessions, you have to talk to the professor or TA (she found her TA’s to be extrememly helpful). You have to go to office hours if you are having problems and she found that it was the same group of people who showed up to office hours, they kind of made a little group lol!</p>
<p>I won’t try to assume but I figure that your S had so much on his plate that Physics took at back seat and by the time he figured that out it was too late. It also sounds like it was a very eventful year socially also. My D found out that her second and third year she was too busy for much of a social life. She didn’t really date, she only went out one night a weekend. She also spent most of her studying time at the library, even though her room was quiet, it was too distracting and as a bonus there were others at the library ready to help. Don’t discount the help others in your class can give you.</p>
<p>If your S is able to take the Physics class over and replace the grade that would be the best option.</p>
<p>D had to drop Statistics sophomore year. She took it again as a senior. So much easier this time. One even though she was taking 17 hours it seemed like she had a lot more time, and also she said she learned to to teach herself from the book. Something she didn’t know the first time and a valuable lesson she learned along the way. </p>
<p>I remember talking to a professor when my S was looking at schools. He said he failed a class along the way and told the kids not to give up. He recovered and got his Phd.</p>
<p>Thanks to the OP for this thread, and to Classof2015 for posing the same question we’re asking in our house. It’s not engineering, but sophomore D is struggling with the lower level classes in her major and has begun to ask whether this is a sign she should change majors. I don’t know the answer to that. My gut, having talked online to several other parents at her same school though with different majors, is that many students are struggling there. In particular, the complaint is that their kids can handle the homework and p-sets. They may take loads of hours and attending a help session in order to complete them, but basically they’re manageable and comprehensible. But then the midterm comes along and the problems on it are 10 times more difficult than anything they’ve done prior and D says she just isn’t smart enough to do them. I told her to just hang in there and do her best to pass and see what happens next year. I am not sure that is the best advice. </p>
<p>I don’t stress over her grades, and neither does she, but if she continues at this rate of GPA slippage, I fear she may have trouble getting a job.</p>