Grading Curve?

Student Lounge College Life
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<p>I wasn't too sure on which forum this discussion should be posted, so my apologies if it's the wrong one. </p>

<p>Anyway, I wanted to talk about grading curves. I currently go to the University at Albany - SUNY and professors curve grades. I just don't understand how curving grades is fair and I would like someone to help me understand. Also, I'd like to know if people who attend other universities (wherever that may be) have grading curves as well in their courses. </p>

<p>Here's the thing: so UAlbany's accounting program (I am an accounting major) is very reputable. I am currently taking intermediate accounting 1 and the results for our first exam was a class average of 65. This is clearly failing. However, our professor curves the final grade and has mentioned that "if you scored around the class average, consider yourself having a B currently." HOW does a 65 amount to a B?!? </p>

<p>I'm not sure if it's because the test was made to be too hard, or if this is typical for most colleges, or what. But jeez, we're talking like a 20 point curve! Do ivy league colleges do this? Do the top state schools do this? I mean, what if I went to a different school (say, Syracuse University since it was my top choice); could I expect a curve there? </p>

<p>I'll admit, I literally got the class average on our first exam. I'm concerned because I feel like maybe accounting isn't the career I should pursue. Though I will admit, there were things on the exam that I lost points for which were completely ridiculous, but that's another story.</p>

<p>Anyone wanna shine some light on this?</p>

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<p>How a test is graded can vary class by class. Some courses will have no curve regardless of class average and some will curve to get the grade distribution that the professor wants. The only given is that the professor follows his policy stated in the syllabus.</p>

<p>A lot of time the tests are designed to challenge the best students. To get a A, the student would need not only to fully understand the material but have master the finer points. Sometimes the tests are designed to weed out the weaker students. This happens a lot in the pre-med type course but also in other majors. The goal is to give the students a feel for what it takes to succeed in their major. Other times, the professor just under estimated the difficulty of the exam and curves to make up for it.</p>

<p>A 20 point curve is not that unusually. I had one exam that the average was 29. What was the professor going to do? Fail everyone?</p>

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<p>Sounds pretty normal. The rule of thumb at my school (Berkeley, CS) was that the mean was a B, one standard deviation above was an A, one SD below was a C, and below two SD is when you should panic. Of course, every professor has different policies, but that rule worked well in most of my classes.</p>

<p>College exams are meant to challenge you. For many classes, that means the tests are going to be really hard, so there’s a good spread of scores. If it’s too easy to get an A the professor can’t tell good students apart from bad ones, or might have to apply a down-curve. A class average of 50-70% isn’t anything weird, I’ve even had an exam before where the average was close to 25%.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the replies. </p>

<p>I transferred to UAlbany from a community college and this is my first semester. It is definitely an adjusting semester for me, and part of that are the grading curves. Yes, my CC had grading curves, but not so much in comparison to UAlbany. Test scores were not typically as low as I’ve noticed them to be at UAlbany either.</p>

<p>I guess my overall concern is if my grade of 65% (and that being the class average, too) is either a good/bad indication of if I should continue to pursue my major. My professor told me that as long as the school of business doesn’t kick me out, then I should not worry. I definitely do not think that this is an issue.</p>

<p>Are curves more about your ranking in the class? For example, if the class average is 65% and you get a 75%; would some professors consider that an A because of how you ranked in comparison to the rest of the class?</p>

<p>Believe me, I like the grading curve. My problem with it though is if it may fog reality in that maybe a certain major is not right for someone.</p>

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<p>Do you understand the material? Do you find your major and course work interesting? Overall, are your grades good? If yes, then you are probably on the right career path. Don’t let one “B” drive your decisions. If it was a “C”, I would give it some thought. If it is a low C or D then you need to give it some serious thought.</p>

<p>Your grades are always relative to the grades of others that took the same test. Failure622 did a nice job describing how some professors set the curve (in that case a standard bell curve). Only your professor can tell you what letter grade corresponds to your grade. I suspect that most professors will use the average grade as a B/B-. The A range will depend on the overall distribution of the grades, </p>

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<p>A B is not a bad grade. Coming from CC, yes, it might seem like the end of the world that you’re not on the top of your class. But it’s a good thing, it means you’re being challenged. :slight_smile: If you like the major, and you’re not failing the class or struggling to get a C, stick with it. It’s weird transferring into a hard school, suddenly everyone is just as smart as you are, and that can lead to some second guessing. Don’t let it get to you, average isn’t a bad place to be.</p>

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<p>I majored in Economics and basically all my intermediate classes curved the grades because its such a tricky subject. Theres too many factors that can effect a real world problem and its mostly opinionated in my opinion because theres people who follow this theory or that theory in Economics which both negate each other. </p>

<p>For Accounting you’re basically learning how a business operates which you will not fully understand even after you take your CPA. You have to get work experience to fully understand why you would do this and how this piece fits in the puzzle overall. </p>

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<p>Again, thanks for the replies!</p>

<p>I kinda figured that many other colleges also grade on a curve, but it’s nice to actually hear it from other people. I have a better understanding of grading curves now too, so thank you!</p>

<p>I was thinking about graduate school and if I decide to transfer to another university (which is mostly likely to happen), if I would be in for a rude awakening upon transferring to a better university. Not saying UAlbany isn’t good, but I kinda want to attend a grad school with a little more prestige (not to mention I live in Albany and that I commute; NO student loans!)</p>

<p>Also another concern of mine was if I was scoring the average, if it meant in the real world that I would be doomed an average accounting position for the rest of my life. Thanks gogreek for your input; I am doing an internship this summer so we’ll see how well I do with a little experience!</p>

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<p>Hi Jmm,</p>

<p>I have some serious thoughts on this subject. First off, I am a parent of a freshman in high school. Yes, high school, so I have some questions for you as well, but here are my thoughts on your concerns.</p>

<p>First, there are a lot of bad professors out there. Some you cannot understand since they cannot speak the english language, some are adjunct professors and they do not know how to teach period!! so it is not always easy to get an A or even a B for that matter. Point being, it is not always the students fault. If most of the students got a 65 average, do all of the students suck?? Really?? Do you think that maybe, just maybe it is the professor that sucks?? I understand that some accounting courses are a ■■■■■ like auditing etc, but if a class has an average of 42 or 61 etc, I think you should not get too concerned, and maybe the teacher has to take some responsibility, even though most will not because they are too pompous.</p>

<p>Also, think of it this way. I have had many conversations with my accountant who is a very bright CPA. He went to ST Johns University years ago, he is my age, 53. First, he failed a few parts of the cpa exam the first time around. It is a tough test, this is not the civil service test we are talking about. Second, he always tells me his goal was to be in the 300 club with the cpa exam Pass, and get a 75 on each part. Now, if he gets a 75 give or take on each part, and passes the cpa exam, does that mean that he is a poor cpa?? No, that test is tough, and alot of what you learn is on the job, so do not get down on yourself for a few bad grades. If you are a 2.75 or a 3.0 student in the major, you can be a very successful accountant. A 2.0 GPA or 2.3 etc, well, maybe you want to do some soul searching.</p>

<p>Now, if you are getting mostly c’s and d’s, now I would think long and hard about changing majors. I know accounting friends that failed a course in accounting here and there due to the fact that the exams were moronic. They simply took the couse with another professor, or over the summer at a local college and got a B or higher.</p>

<p>Bottom line, you can only be the real judge as to whether or not you like the Major for the most part, and if you feel you have a good grasp of the material in general. You do not have to be a 3.75 student to be a good accountant. Some schools are more competitive than others, and some of it is luck in terms of having good professors</p>

<p>Try RATE MY PROFESSORS, I HEAR THAT THE RATINGS ARE VERY ACCURATE!!</p>

<p>PS I WILL REPLY TO YOU ON ANOTHER THREAD TO ASK YOU A FEW QUESTIONS REGARDING ALBANY THANKS</p>

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<p>JMM,</p>

<p>Now I have a few questions for you. As I was saying, I have a son who is only a freshman in High School, but he is good with numbers, and wants to try Accounting possibly. We shall see. It is very early.</p>

<p>I was wondering how you like Suny Albany? I live in Long Island, but I used to live in Clifton Park, so we love the area and we do not listen to all of the BS about the crime rate etc in Albany, that is utter nonsense. Our Albany friends just told us last week that Sutters is closed. I could not believe it!! Best burgers and fries!!</p>

<p>I was curious as to why Albany gets a bad rap of being a party school?? In my day, Albany was the place to go for pre law or business. I attended Oneonta back then, in 1980 and we did our fair share of partying so All colleges party. I do not care if it is Colgate, Lehigh, Binghamton, Oswego etc, but I think the Albany business school is excellent. Maybe it was that kegs and eggs fiasco a few years back.</p>

<p>Also, on the whole, how are the professors in the accounting dept?? I am sure some suck, but you find that all over at every school</p>

<p>Finally, how do you find Albany academically in general. Easy, challenging, too hard?? I know they have an honors college, but I think ALL HONORS PROGRAMS ARE A GIMMICK.</p>

<p>I probably have some more questions, but thanks in advance.</p>

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<p>sure, euve69! i’d be happy to answer questions you have regarding UAlbany.</p>

<p>I actually have used rate my professor to search for my accounting professor and he has a rating of 2.1. It’s funny that you mention how some professors speak poor english; my professor has terrible english! Many students have complained about this professor and they have mentioned that his tests are too long and that there isn’t enough time to finish.</p>

<p>We just took our second exam and he actually had to extend the amount of time he gave us to take it because all of the students (minus two) were still taking the exam when the test was originally suppose to end. I know my GPA for this semester is going to be lower than my CC GPA, but I expected that with junior year.</p>

<p>The reason why I brought up the grading curve is because bottom line, I did score a 65% on the exam. Though our final grade will be curved, it still concerns me that I got the 65% because that tells me that my grasp on the material may not be as well as it should be. But with the curve, I have a B… So it is hard to judge if I am doing well or not. In comparison to the rest of the class, I’m average. In terms of knowing the material well, I fail… (at least in my mind). </p>

<p>That is why I am so confused!</p>

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<p>Once you get you first real job AND a few years of experience, no one will care what your GPA was. Most won’t care where you went to school. You will be solely judge on job performance. If you go great work, you will get the better jobs. If do average work then that is the type of assignments you will get even if you went to Wharton. Granted the better education helps getting the first job and being able to do the job. What matters is what you are able to do with that knowledge.</p>

<p>Keep in mind grades do not always translate into real world performance. What matters is can you apply the knowledge to real world problems. While an A might indicate you know the book material but can you apply it? Your GPA does give indication of your ability to learn and master new material and is important but is not the end all. You will find that during your job interviews that what will be mainly discussed is your experience (course work, internship, etc.) with only a passing reference to the GPA. What employer wants to know is can you do the job. Having said that, the GPA is often used as a rough screen when deciding who to interview.</p>

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<p>Hey JMM,</p>

<p>I meant to ask you, why do you really want to go somewhere else for your masters? As you know Albany does have a 4 and 1 year plan where you get your masters in accounting, and from what I understand, Albany has alot of good recruiting and is reasonably priced compared to a NYU OR HOFSTRA where you are looking at 50 k to 60k for a year in grad school as opposed to 25k or suny albany, or alot less in your case since you live in the area.</p>

<p>You can ask around, but KPMG really does not care where you got your masters as long as it is an accredited school, you did reaonably well, and all that degree really does in accounting is allow you to fulfill the cpa requirement to sit for the test so I would not spend an ungodly amount of money on a MS DEGREE at a private college when you can stay at Albany, SUNY Buffalo, Oswego, New Paltz.</p>

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<p>thanks noname87, i wasn’t exactly sure how much a person’s GPA is considered when an employer decides who to hire. I like to believe my work ethic is good, so hopefully future employers will see that as well. I <em>think</em> that my GPA may be a 3.4 this semester, give or take a few points. The grades I am mainly concerned with are my business courses, which I am doing pretty well in those. Employers don’t expect you to instantly know what to do though, do they? After being hired, there has to be training even though you’re expected to know what to do partially, right?</p>

<p>euve69: UAlbany has an AMAZING business school. They just built the new school of business and the attention that it has attracted is really impressive; there is constantly recruiters from the big 4 on campus. From what I have experienced thus far, UAlbany definitely challenges you academically and they emphasize extracurricular activities. I am constantly being emailed with different internship opportunities. UAlbany pretty much treats their business students like gold. The clubs/organizations (specifically for business students) are plentiful and offer great learning experiences as well. </p>

<p>With that being said, my reasons for wanting to go away are admittedly bad ones. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>I’ve lived in Albany my whole life and I am kind of envious of those who went away to college. I was thinking that by saving money in my undergrad, that I could go to a “nicer” grad school.</p></li>
<li><p>As much as I am liking UAlbany (now, anyway), it was my last choice school. I was accepted to Syracuse, Rutgers, Geneseo and Binghamton. Again, I decided UA because of financial reasons, not because I really loved UA.</p></li>
<li><p>I’m hoping to eventually partner with a big 4 firm, and I thought maybe having a degree from “a more reputable school” would somehow give me an advantage. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>The schools I was thinking about applying to are U of Illinois, U of Wisconsin - Madison, U of Georgia, Wake Forest Uni, Rutgers University - New Brunswick and probably either Syracuse again or NYU (probably not NYU because stern is so competitive.) On top of those schools, I am without a doubt applying to UAlbany for grad school as well. Though I loved Geneseo and Bing, UA is the ONLY SUNY college that I’d apply to for grad school.</p>

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<p>I understand. But I think you answered your own question in your reply to me. You said that the Big 4 are always on campus recruiting so I think that says alot about Albany. My friends son graduated from Bing last year and I believe passed the cpa but before he did pass, he landed with Ernst. I think you should go to a good SUNY school and save yourself 25-30k over a private school. You can find out yourself, but I do not think the Big 4 really care as long as the school is good. Also, Accounting is not like law. In law, if you go to an ivy league school or a colgate etc, you can make out of school 150k or so starting. If you go to a lower ranked school, you can start out at 60 or 70k. </p>

<p>In accounting, it is all about the CPA. If you graduate from Albany, Bing, Yale, (yes yale) the big 4 will not give you much more money, maybe 5-10k more if that. </p>

<p>That said, go to the school that you like and can afford, but the main thing is go to an accredited school. </p>

<p>Try looking at Baruch. Excellent school, very very very reasonably priced, LIKE 20-25K YR NOT 60K LIKE STERN OVER AT NYU. ZICKLIN SCHOOL OF BUSINESS EXCELLENT PROGRAM RANKED LIKE #2 IN THE COUNTRY BEHIND BENTLY IN MASS </p>

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<p>Thanks JMM. You did confirm what I always thought about the business school. You guys are treated very well. I did have a question for you. On the whole, how are the professors?? Do they teach?? Can you see them during their office hours?? I know you always have your clunkers, but on the whole, can you get the help if you need it?</p>

<p>I often read on these threads that alot of professors (at alot of schools) expect you to learn the material on your own. Now this is coming from someone that is not good at math at all!!! Now my son is good at math, that is why I want to encourage him to go into accounting, but accounting aint easy as they say, so what is scary is that some professor can expect you to pick up auditing or intermediate accounting by reading a freaking boring textbook 5 times. How in the world can you learn these concepts on your own?? This is not some psyc 101 class.</p>

<p>Anyway, I was just curious. Also my son plans to take the two accounting courses at his high school that are offered. One is an intro course, and one is a college level course sponsored by a community college. He will take these by his jr year in high school. Heck, at least he will see if he likes accounting </p>

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<p>^ @euve69, @SUNYJMM, I think it might be a better idea if y guys converse via private messages (the mail tool). It’s a little confusing to follow, especially with the double-posts and whatnot. </p>

<p>The curve is based on how well the class does as a whole, and then the average score will be set to somewhere in the B to B- range. If you do averagely on all your exams, then you’ll probably end up in the 2.6-3.2 range, so it’s not like they’re giving away grades or anything. And yes, there is a curve present in many large classes. It doesn’t mean you or your classmates are stupid, or that the professor sucks, or any of that. Classes in college (besides CC’s) are going to be harder, and if you believe that the average should be near a 90 or whatever you were used to, then you’ve got another think coming, I’m afraid. </p>

<p>The curve is a good thing. If the professor gave you a grade at face value right now it would be a solid D. </p>

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<p>It concerns me that an accounting student doesn’t understand the fundamental issue at hand - the curving of the grade distribution because the exam isn’t standardized/validated.</p>

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<p>^ You’re spamming the thread by asking irrelevant questions, that’s what’s hard to follow. If you’re going to ask the OP questions on behalf of your children about Albany, then do so via * private message *–that’s what it was made for. It’s the little icon on the top of the screen near your username. This question was about how the curving system worked, and I think it’s been more than answered at this point. </p>

<p>You would be surprised at how ill-prepared some students are. Not all professors are going to be great, but not all students are going to be geniuses, either. It’s akin to how the average SAT score in the US is surprisingly low. Does that mean every high school student who took the test is an idiot? No, but some of them are certainly performing very poorly and “balancing out” the scores of those who do well. </p>

<p>It also concerns me that this OP does not know how curving works if he’s hoping to become an accounting major.
But seriously, I’m done posting on this thread and I’m not here to argue (although it kind of seems like you are). It’s not your fault, by the way. The quality of this site has been declining for a long time and I’m not surprised that it’s attracting a markedly different userbase than it used to. </p>

<p>Good luck! </p>

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<p>Maybe the reason why the SAT scores are so low is due to the fact that not all school districts have the same budgets and are economically challenged. Maybe the student in the Bronx cannot afford to spend 2500.00 on a review course like the kid in Scarsdale Ny or Beverly HILLS. I can go on for hours, but we will agree to disagree </p>