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<p>It looks like Choate offers many AP courses, but also offers more advanced courses for those who have completed the AP level courses (e.g. in math, it offers AP calculus AB and BC, and multivariable calculus and other courses for those who have finished AP calculus).</p>
<p>[Choate:</a> Curriculum](<a href=“http://www.choate.edu/academics/curriculum/index.aspx]Choate:”>Curriculum - Choate Rosemary Hall | Private Boarding & Day School)</p>
<p>High schools are not graded (fortunately). If they were graded on the overall achievement of their students that may not reflect the opportunities for students. Public schools need to meet the needs of all of their students. It doesn’t matter if many of the students are average if there are enough good classes and a large enough peer group for your child. Check on the gifted and talented programing- options for students beyond just AP courses. Are there academic extracurriculars available?</p>
<p>Being private does not make a school better than being public. Having extracurricular experiences such as travel abroad does not mean the school is more rigorous. You have to decide your priorities. You know your child- abilities and personality- better than we do. Finances also matter, but I presume spending money on a private HS education will not affect your college budget. </p>
<p>Is the small private school a better overall environment for your child? Or is exposure to a more “real world” environment, with good AP courses a better choice? Sending most students to instate schools doesn’t sound like an advantage. </p>
<p>You need to do your homework to sort out the apples and oranges. You need to consider the emotional/social facets of your child. You also need to challenge her comfort zone if that is a reason for sticking with the known HS. Did she attend the public middle school and have reasons to avoid the public HS or did you believe this private school had more academic opportunities than you now know? These are questions for you to ask yourself, we don’t need any answers here.</p>
<p>Good time to consider changes to maximize her learning. Thriving in her present school does not mean she couldn’t thrive at the public school and learn more there. The fact that you are questioning her current school compared to the public option means something. Good luck with your fact finding and making the decision. This is the time to do it.</p>
<p>I understand she will not be penalized for what her small school does not offer. But I do know she can be penalized for not attending the right school. I was, however, making the mistake of assuming more AP classes = better curriculum. </p>
<p>You say that every year students are admitted to selective colleges with 0 or 1 or 2 AP classes. But from the way it is termed, it sounds as if that is the exception, not the rule. She could self study for the AP exams, I suppose. But she is not a ‘book’ person nearly so much as she is a ‘social’ person. She does her homework, but not really because she wants to. So I don’t see her going out and looking for extra studies. College courses may be an excellent option, though. We’re an hour away from a state university, so that would be doable. I’ll have to find out more about that option. Is that typically something that is done in the junior or senior years?</p>
<p>D says she would be happier at the larger public school. She has good friends there, so some of her reasons may be social. But she has good friends at both schools. If her happiness right now is the deciding factor, I would move her to the larger public school. But we are cognizant of the bad influences at the larger school. She has a good head on her shoulders as far as knowing what’s OK to do vs not, but those bad influences are there more so at the larger school. Part of the decision comes down to insulating her from the real world until later in life vs tossing her in and see how she does. But this thread is focused on how colleges will view her education. Clearly there is more to the decision than that narrow focus. But it is a factor I’m still unsure of. I wish there were more choices of high schools. But we are limited to a fairly new, small private that is building it’s reputation vs a large public with a not-so-great reputation, but that supposedly has good honors and AP courses to choose from. Time to try to get some statistics from the two schools.</p>
<p>I think you need to think about what’s best for your daughter, and leave aside trying to guess what colleges think. Because colleges are perfectly aware that the majority of students simply go off to whatever public school their parents happen to live in, and they don’t “penalize” a student for not attending a private school or living in a “better” school district, because it simply wasn’t a decision open to the student.</p>
<p>What colleges the kids at each school attend may be a function of parental income and culture. If one school has more professional and worldly parents, they may encourage their kids to try for elite schools. OTOH, there are also areas in which everyone just assumes off to state flagship we go.</p>
<p>"Most students have gone to in-state colleges. As far as I have heard, no Ivy League or really high end colleges so far. "</p>
<p>Be very careful here. First, you don’t know how many applied, and second, with 30,000 Hugh schools in the US and low acceptance rates at Ivies and similar schools, you shouldn’t “expect” there to be Ivy or similar acceptances at any given hs.</p>
<p>Agree with PizzaGirls’s comments. I am currently a parent of a senior year student going through the application process. Counselors send a school profile along with the transcripts and recommendations letters to the colleges. The school profile tells things like how g.p.a is calculated, and the different rigor of the curriculum that is offered. </p>
<p>As far as admissions is concerned we were told by several admissions officers that an applicant is reviewed in the context of the school that they have attended. For example if a school only offers two AP classes that is not going to count against a student if someone else from another school has done ten. You are compared with students applying from your own graduating class. For example two kids from the same school- one students does two AP classes but the other does none when it was offered. It is expected that a student takes the most rigorous curriculum that their school offers to be competitive for college admission. </p>
<p>You know best your childs personality and where they would best flourish. In a small private school or a large public school. Attend the school which is best fit for her and where she will get the best opportunities that match what she is looking for. If academic counseling is important to you then the private school maybe better because public school counselors have a lot more students to manage and may not get to know your child as well and may not get as much personal attention. Our school though a very good public school did not arrange tours to colleges but we did have colleges come and visit our school. In public school the kids need to be more proactive is getting their needs met because teachers and counselors have to deal with a large group of students. So if there are problems it is up the students and parents to get involved to solve issues. In private school there is more hand holding of students and they do help you walk through the college application process. Each school is different even when it comes to public schools.</p>
<p>My daughter wants to change to the large public HS. That’s a big part of why I am looking into this. Would she be happier there? I’m sure she would, at first. Not so sure later on though. She did attend public school through 5th grade. And very much enjoyed it. It was a very good public school. Maybe she just likes the larger crowd at a public school. </p>
<p>I know that colleges look at what the student had to work with at the school they attended. But I also believe that all other things being equal (they rarely are, but…) colleges will choose a student from a high school they know has a quality program. It’s just natural that they would. That’s why higher tier prep schools exist. Like it or not, high schools that have a regular % of graduates attending the upper tier colleges attract more quality students. You can always have the ‘chicken or the egg’ debate. Good students make good schools, or good schools make good students. But parents want to send their kids to the best high school possible. And that’s because they want them to get a good education, partly (probably mostly) so that they can get into the best college possible. </p>
<p>You are correct that I do not know how many of the small private graduates applied to upper tier colleges. But one would think that some have applied to ‘reach’ colleges, as is typical. I’m not talking about just Ivy League colleges, but upper tier colleges. The top 40 or so US colleges by reputation on the most recent list posted here on the forum, for example. I would guess the small private has had 40-50 graduates so far. I think only perhaps two of those have attended one of the colleges on the recent list of top colleges. I think part of that is that the small private is still building it’s reputation, and simply is not well known at those out-of-state colleges. </p>
<p>I agree you should not ‘expect’ to see upper tier college acceptances from any given high school. But I think that is a reflection of the fact that there are good and bad high school programs, and the colleges know that. Upper tier colleges are choosing students from upper tier high school programs. Since sending my daughter away to an upper tier prep school is not something I’m going to do, my next best step is to figure out which of my choices will give her the best chance. My problem is comparing the large number of graduates from the large public with the very small number of graduates from the small private. Whether it’s looking at colleges attended by graduates, average GPA’s, average SAT scores, etc. The small number at one school tends to skew the averages. As far as colleges attended, with a graduating class of probably 450, one would expect a few of those to be accepted to top tier colleges. But for the small private, looking at it from purely a statistical perspective, if you assume an average of only 10% acceptance rate at the top tier colleges (I’m sure that on average, it’s higher than that), there should be a few more students who have been accepted to top colleges. </p>
<p>I’ll have to look deeper. There are excellent colleges to consider that did not make the recent list of worldwide top colleges. Davidson being a prime example. If one of the small school graduates was accepted to a small college such as that, I believe it should count (as far as I’m concerned) as acceptance to a top tier college.</p>
<p>“D says she would be happier at the larger public school.”
Personally, I’m not understanding why you are paying tuition and sending your child to a private school that also appears to offer her fewer academic opportunities. </p>
<p>Also wondering how you evaluated this school vs. the public school when you selected it last year–didn’t you gather stats on test scores, talk to enrolled students and their parents, visit classes etc already? If you already evaluated both options and evidently decided the private school was better, what is making you reconsider now?</p>
<p>Was typing my post when raclut’s posted…</p>
<p>Yes, college admission offices tell you the standard line when you call to talk with them. But from what I have seen, they DO consider the high school’s reputation. It would be naive to think otherwise. If that were not the case, then why do top tier prep schools exist? When the top 20 prep high schools are sending their graduates to top tier colleges at a rate of over 1/3 of their graduates, it’s clear that top colleges consider high school reputation, and not just how much the student at a far less well known high school maximized their opportunities.</p>
<p>She has gone to the private school since 6th grade. So I did not select it last year. At the time, we did not want to send her to the public middle school. That, as it turned out, was a correct decision. She was happy at the small private. We did discuss at length sending her to the public high school for 9th grade over this past spring/summer. I did not research any stats at that point, although I did call and talk with several college admissions offices. My wife made the call, largely due to the social concerns she had regarding the public high school. I was completely undecided, as I still am. We still are not sure which direction to take. I don’t think the small private offers less academic opportunities. I cannot say that at this point. But obviously less AP classes. </p>
<p>I did talk with parents with kids at the large public. Two in particular that should have good information… a retired principal with 35 yrs experience and multiple kids that went there. And a lawyer that represents the school system. The response from all that I spoke with was basically 'if you get them into the honors or AP classes, they will get a quality education". Otherwise, no. But how do I compare the ‘quality education’ at the small private vs the large public? I just don’t see any good way to compare. Do I ask for stats from just the honors and AP classes, and compare those to the small private? Overall GPA’s? SAT scores? With such a small class size at the small private, I’m not sure how valid such a comparison will be.</p>
<p>And then there is the social aspect of the large public that concerned my wife so much. No question there is far more temptation to do stupid things at the large public. Being an extrovert has it’s down side as well as it’s upside. Already (at only 14 yo), she is wanting to date. In this day and age, are we being fuddy duddy’s by saying no to that??</p>
<p>I would not select a school solely based on the number of AP classes the school offers. I would look at the rigor of the courses the school offers. As others noted, many schools no longer offer AP designated classes because they find the curriculum confining and even limited. Look at the syllabi of the upper-end courses; talk to parents whose kids graduated and find out where they went to college afterwards. </p>
<p>Also, what does your daughter think? Does she want the big public high school with all its offerings or would she be better off at a small private high school?</p>
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<p>In practice, how many and which high schools does this refer to? It seems unlikely that the OP is looking at such presumably academically elite high schools, as opposed to typical public and private high schools where AP courses are the most rigorous and most advanced offerings.</p>
<p>My daughter clearly wants to attend the large public school. But you know the old saying… ‘grass is greener on the other side of the fence’. I believe much has to do with athletics. She is pretty strong in that area. MVP of the varsity team as an 8th grader. The public 4A has a strong program, typically finishing in the top 4 in the state. I think that, and the idea of playing for a high profile team in order to later play in college, has much to do with it. </p>
<p>I do have work to do to collect some stats.</p>
<p>Re: “bad influences” at the big public high school</p>
<p>Perhaps there is risk here, but if she can successfully handle the presence of the “bad influences” (whatever they may be), then she may be better prepared for post-high-school life outside of your home, rather than being a vulnerable fragile snowflake who will get into trouble after she starts living on her own.</p>
<p>Definitely not looking at any academically elite high schools! Assuming by elite you mean places like Trinity, Phillips Exeter, etc. The most I would do is look into a long commute to a better small private, or a much more highly regarded 3A public high school.</p>
<p>You are overthinking this. Send her to your local public school. She wants to be there. They have AP classes. Do not waste your money on a private school with no reputation- if only because it is so new it doesn’t have any track record of producing exceptional students. Do not worry about her peer group. She will be interacting with the academic students who also choose the difficult and AP classes. Like cities larger schools are composed of many different neighborhoods. She will be in the academically rich area. Being extroverted does not mean being negatively influenced by others. You live in NC and your public HS is known to the top colleges in your area. If she finds the AP courses challenging- great. If the AP teaching isn’t great she can study for the tests beyond the material presented in the class. We don’t know if your D is gifted (definitions can vary) but we are hearing she can do well with the top students. </p>
<p>Let her go to her public HS. Do not pay for a lesser academic experience. The private HS does not sound like one of those super elite schools. We were pleasantly surprised with our local blue collar city’s schools. Good gifted program. Kid couldn’t get better test or AP scores. Likewise yours may have opportunities for those who need them. The quality of public schools in NC must be fairly good to have such a great flagship U.</p>
<p>A good starting point might be to look at the average SAT score or ACT. Also look at the total number of National Merit semifinalists and perhaps the total number of National AP Scholars it produces each year.</p>
<p>My feeling is that at public schools in which 2% or more make NMSF and where average SAT scores are above 1600 you may find that there is a culture in place that prepares top students to do well at top private universities.</p>
<p>It can be misleading to look at average test scores. In a large school what is most relevant is whether there is a critical mass of talented and serious students to find friends among, support high quality classroom experiences, and whether the school supports such students with reasonably well taught honors and AP classes. If the school has significant numbers of disadvantaged students, they may pull the averages down, but that might not really matter to your child’s educational experience. Talking to parents and looking at the school’s record of scores on the AP tests, the number of national merit commended and semifinalists, and college admittances, can give you some idea of how large the group of higher end students is. Also, does the school participate in a variety of academic extracurriculars like debate, math team, science olympiad, etc. No school will do everything but if the school does some such activities with some success, that tells you the kids are there. If some kids aren’t serious students or have other issues they probably won’t be in most of the same classes. As long as they are behaving and not creating a hostile/violent school environment, it doesn’t really affect your child if they are off in a different classroom flunking algebra. In a large school your child will probably never even learn their name.</p>
<p>I do tend to overthink things! </p>
<p>Agreed that she will be interacting mostly with folks in the same classes. But all the other students are still there. And to think they are not interacting and influencing her is not realistic</p>
<p>Unfortunately, NC is not known for great high schools. Even though we do have some good colleges. Our #1 ranked high school is only ranked #176 nationwide. It has a college readiness score of 62.5. The large public I am looking at only has a college readiness score of 10.7. I don’t know how realistic these rankings are, but I’m guessing college admissions offices at least have them available and look at them. Were I in their seat, that number would not impress me. The small privates are not ranked at all that I can find. I think I’d rather have an unranked small private than a poorly ranked public. </p>
<p>Again, I don’t know that the small private is a better or worse academic experience. That’s part of what I’m trying to figure out. </p>
<p>perazziman, I will ask for the NM semi and finalist numbers from each school. Thanks for that pointer, as well as a general guideline for those and SAT scores. </p>
<p>I do need to learn more about the large public. But I feel certain from my conversations with parents that they do have a good group of honors and AP students. And you’re right, she would be spending most of her time with that group. I’ll be sure and try to get averages only from those classes, as that would be the only possible way to do any comparing. I will have to find out about the EC’s, but I’m also certain there will be many more to choose from, simply due to the size difference. </p>
<p>I’m not too concerned about a hostile/violent environment (although my wife voices that concern). Only about the better academics, and the better chance of college admissions.</p>