DS will graduate in May with a BM (primary instrument being voice). He had an amazing undergrad experience. He has recently been considering graduate school (I know the application process is wrapped up for Fall 2023). Are there graduate programs that focus on choral singing, or are MM in VP only for those pursuing opera?
Are there opportunities to have a career as a professional choral singer? Or is it only what I would refer to as a side hustle? I don’t know enough about the world of professional singing, although I’m trying to learn.
He went in to undergrad with a different career path in mind, and as he has developed as a singer has recently had multiple professors suggest the opera path–although he would prefer to pursue the choral path!
These two programs popped up in my head but may not include what he is looking for. Look esp. at the WCC programs. Others on this forum know a lot more than I do about VP/singing so I may be off the mark!
Based on my limited knowledge in this area, I believe that you still audition for a VP program. However you would look at the school for their Ensemble opportunities. I don’t know if all schools offer an MM in Choral Conducting…but I know that some do. If there is a school strong in that area…they should have strong ensembles.
I’m assuming that he would want opportunities like Conspirare which is based in TX. In MN, there is Cantus (all male) and Vocal Essence. You can go on their websites and look at the background of the artists. I only looked briefly at Conspirare (there’s a girl from my D’s high school who is still affiliate with them). As with more performing artists, they all tend to have other jobs…primarily teaching. They may also be more involved with church choirs (directors for large church programs for example).
This is an area that my D does not work in a lot…but bumps into quite a bit. Acquaintances in this part of classical musical tend to do ensemble and soloist work with a variety of levels of vocal and instrumentatl ensembles (a lot of Bach!) and orchestras. It tends to lean a bit more religious (but not always)…think the Passions. So, yes, you can have a career in this area…but most likely you will also teach or work for a church or another flexible job.
Yeah, choral conducting grad programs come to my mind as well. UNT has an excellent choral conducting graduate program (this is the one I’m familiar with since my son is a undergrad gthere) and the graduate choral conducting students do sing in the top choirs. And as @bridgenail mentioned, UNT does have some wonderful choirs for the grad students to gain experience conducting. The top choirs will have a grad teaching fellow assigned to work with the principal conductor, and a couple of the lower choirs are conducted by the advanced grad students. Honestly the state of Texas has a pretty strong choral tradition from what we have observed, with several professional choirs but I also haven’t heard of professional choirs being a full time career. There’s at least three professional choirs in Arizona, but Im pretty confident they’re all very part time. My son also loves choral music and has really loved his collegiate choir experiences (more so than solo voice it turns out) but is planning on pursuing professional choirs on the side when he’s teaching, as far as I know. I think if he pursues a graduate degree it will be in conducting.
Yeah I was surprised to find out about how TX is strong in that area. MN definitely is…I think it’s the Lutheran background. My D’s high school choir class went every few years to San Antonio to work with Conspirare and Craig Hella Johnson (you have to use his full name). Her teachers were from St. Olaf and Luther where choir singing is “like football”. They had worked with Craig Hella Johnson for years…and going to TX was like going to spend time with a Rock star.
I do believe that Cantus is a full-time job. They travel quite a bit. I’m not sure if it’s changed since covid…but the website makes it sound like its full time…and one of my D’s colleagues (50ish now) moved to MN to sing for Cantus quite a few years ago and he said that it was a full-time job. Still most performers do piece things together just fine…that’s what my D does. But she’s not really a “choir” or “concert” singer in general…but has done it in the past when asked and available.
I do think that UNT would definitly be a good school for the OP to consider!
Hhmm…all very interesting! Thank you! Let me add a bit of info. I appreciate all your responses and help!
My DS did a European Tour last summer with his university chorale. He met and worked with Voces8 during that time. They came to the States during the Fall semester and his chorale performed with them again. He was hooked!
Thank you for the names Conspirare, Cantus, and Vocal Essence, as well as the university leads, and geographic hot spots like TX, MN and AZ!
I am also aware of Seraphic Fire (Miami) and Chanticleer (San Fran). If there are any others, please send them my way!
DS is not an education major. He’s also not interested in Choral Conducting…only choral singing! And that’s what is leading him in the MM/VP direction.
He did find one program that is exclusively for choral singing in California at University of Redlands. I don’t know anything about this school so it makes me nervous. I would be more comfortable if he was interested in the larger, more well-known music universities (some that were listed here). It seems like a new program and I would love any feedback on the university itself or your thoughts on the program.
Yes! I think that’s good for him (and me) to see! Most have choral conducting backgrounds, which he doesn’t seem interested in pursuing. He’s headed to the ACDA conference later this month so maybe he’ll change his mind!
By default, I feel like being a Classical Voice Principal will forever connect him to sacred music! He has plenty of experience singing sacred music between his ensembles and gigs. I’m trying to learn more about what else he could do within the world of ‘choral singing’ as a career if he doesn’t see himself exclusively working for a church. He seems to think that the program at URedlands will provide him with the training and connections he needs to break into the performance end of it.
This is a good place to ask questions. Others may continue to respond. I just have a few final thoughts (as again my knowledge in more limited on schools in this area).
1.) There are many ways to “make a living” in classical music. Still, you may need to be flexible in your interpretation of “make a living”. If that means, to you, a full time job with benefits for years to come…that’s probably not going to happen. My D’s first gig after college was an opera chorus gig (which many choir singers do year after year…so that’s another gig for him). I told my father; and from his questions it became obvious that he imagined her heading to the opera company each day with her brief case to sit in a cubicle and work. It’s taken time…but he seems to understand now that it’s a different way to “make a living”. Her bread and butter is teaching (not public school teaching) with performance and some commercial work each year. She is typcially booked 6 to 9 months out for performances depending on the time of year.
2.) I have heard of URedlunds before. If he likes it, why shouldn’t apply there? He is already “working” with professionals so he should lean on his teacher for recommendations. It sounds like he has a network so they should be able to guide him. Also it appears that he is taking a gap year (very common) so he will have the opportunity to “work and gig” and see how he likes it as he applies to school. He may want to think about his “target” market. Sometimes picking a grad school in that market/area can be helpful in establishing yourself early…if the finances etc work out.
3.) I agree with looking at the bios of artists at ensembles listed already. You will see a wide variety of schools. I am always surprised by bios. Sure, some of the usual schools seem to always pop up…but then you see some schools that you have never heard of. If he goes to a program he loves and grows in his skills and then has the talent and drive to audition and gig a lot…he should be fine, no matter the prestige of the school.
I wrote this several hours ago and had to leave in a hurry and never posted it!
The URedlands program looks great. I noted that admissions requires “1 opera aria, 1 oratorio aria, 1 lied, performed from memory.”
My advice for those who aren’t solo artists (and a lot of others in music) going to grad school : I think it is good to focus on enjoying the experience and not necessarily expect a direct career outcome that supports you. (I know someone with a master’s who works at a conservatory but on advising staff, and is a choral director outside of work).
Of course there is always teaching, choral directing, working in a secondary school as music director, or moving to opera performance and teaching, or working in the field in some way. But the degree might not result in a self-supporting job. There might be a day job or a mix of jobs in the “gigging economy.”
I could be wrong in this. If career outcome is the priority here, maybe it would be good to check with various choral groups to see if that is a source of income sufficient to live, or done in addition to a “day job.” (Adding, as @bridgenail said, websites might be helpful.)
Our kids find a way to do what they love. Mine got PhD and has a day job but a performance tomorrow and is taking time off today for rehearsal
He’s currently studying at Miami’s Frost. The choral director from Westminster CC has been there for his entire 4 years and the Frost Chorale is such an amazing program because of her. His studio/voice coach is also amazing and has been so helpful in his journey. So many singing opportunities in the Miami area, both with the school and as gigs.
He started out at Frost because of their excellent Music Business program so he’ll always have that to fall back on!
@bridgenail I loved what you said about the briefcase, the cubicle, and making a living! That’s the same conversation happening over here! The relatives don’t really understand! I’m just trying to learn as much as I can so that I can show up at the next family party and defend him by explaining that it’s possible to ‘make a living’ by singing! LOL My son has total confidence that he’ll find his way in the music world and that’s all that counts (I keep telling myself)!
You know what really set me free? When people would ask: “what’s she gonna do with that degree?!” I would say: “I have no idea. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.” If she was present, I would say…“you should go ask her, she’s right over there.” They never would.
Nobody knows what their kid is going to do. But they can give easier explanations than you. I just stopped engaging (bc honestly I wasn’t sure…and if you tried to explain it people would give me the old side eye). I would add something like…“she’s a smart kid, has a bachelors degree so I’m sure she’ll figure it out.” And if I had a glass of wine or two…I’d add an old “I’m so excited for her future”…which seemed to confuse people. Honestly I was slightly terrified for her but I wasn’t gonna let on!!
Of course with my dad, I had to give a more serious answer which he never quite understood…but he would say in the end…“well she’s a smart kid so she’ll figure something out”. The old man knew something…
It’s also not a tragedy to get a day job, in or out of music, and continue music…sometimes until you can do music for a living, sometimes not. That doesn’t take away the value of grad school, either.
I assume your son has teachers, directors and peers to give him ideas for grad school as well as for future endeavors!
@bridgenail, I happened to check in tonight and your post is so relatable. I think our kids are about the same age, albeit in different ends of the music world. But I remember similar conversations with friends. How will he make a living? He even had a recruiter at my academic college alma mater say to him (I don’t remember the exact words, but this was the message), when you’re done with the music thing, you’re going to be grateful to have the degree from our school. So much for his attending my alma mater.
Now 10+ years later, he’s still finding a way to make the “music thing” work. It’s not going to make him rich, but he’s making a good living at it, he’s steadily getting more traction (just got back from his most successful tour yet and has a packed February before heading out on the road again), and has some exciting news coming up (to which I’m currently sworn to secrecy). Most importantly, he continues to love what he’s doing.
Growing up he had a plaque in his room (can’t remember when he got it) that reads like a dictionary entry: “Hap•pi•ness, n. liking what you do.” It’s still there in his room. I smile when I see it. To all of you whose kids are pursuing their dream, I say just believe in them. They’ll find their paths.
I cannot help with schools or programs, but I have noted that some of the ensembles you mention as examples of what he wants to do, such as Voces8 and Chanticleer, are really not choral singing as such, but rather ensemble singing - a lot of soloists singing together. Not sure whether there is a specialist term here, but ykwim.
So there maybe is some soul searching necessary - is it one or the other or is it both?
And as for choral conducting…maybe there should be some soul searching about that as well, because after secondary school teaching I think that is about the easiest route to find a “day job” in the music world, be it church, school or community choirs.
Thank you for the insight! I am trying to learn as best I can so that I can understand what he’s thinking his future will look like. When I use the word choral, perhaps I should have said ensemble. I guess I’m using it to mean anything other than an opera program or career in opera.
And that’s what is leading him in the MM/VP direction.