Graduating early?

<p>treemaven,</p>

<p>DD graduated in 3 years, and she was told by the colleges that she will be treated as any other HS graduate. No extra scrutiny, but no slack, either. She had her heart set on the state flagship, and it's quite possible that she would get a different answer from the Ivies and such. </p>

<p>DS is one of the kids Princeton accepred after 11th grade, and (same dmd77's DS) he has no HS diploma. But he was told in the Pton's admissions office that he will have to present clear and compelling reasons WHY he wants to go to college early (either in "what do you want to tell about yourself" part of application, or in the "additional recommendation letter" or somesuch).</p>

<p>DS also thought that he might stay at school for one more year if he did not get the desirable outcome from the admission process. In his case, he would have no problems with his HS, obviously. But I know that in some schools, the student HAS to graduate as soon as he'd fulfilled all the requirements. Some kids (in FL) were forced to graduate just like that: in the Spring of their Junior year, the school informed them that they are graduating, and there is nothing they can do about it (short of failing a required class). So, if someone wants to graduate in three years, and still wants to have the "plan B", it would be best to check with his HS first, if "Plan B" will be attainable.</p>

<p>Somebody earlier asked about Brown. So I guess I'll speak up. They do accept early graduates--I'll be attending in the fall. In my personalized admissions letter from my regional officer she mentioned how she was impressed by my acceleration in high school--so I guess it actually worked in my favor. </p>

<p>Again, it really depends on the student and a lot of thinking. I contemplated graduating early for a long time before I made the final decision and the final push to do so. I haven't attended yet so I can't say how that'll turn out, but I feel quite ready.</p>

<p>treemaven, to retrieve previous discussions, in addition to using searchwords for the thread names, I'm wondering if you've yet noticed a function called "search for more posts by [the same poster].
To do this, click on the name of any poster here, as we appear down the left side of any thread page.
A menu pops up to give you that choice.</p>

<h2> You can kind of tell from the words that open each old post of ours if it addressed early grad issues.</h2>

<p>That said, our family's experience in a nutshell: last child is graduating in a few mothhs, after 3 years of h.s.; was accepted to 3-out-of-8 places applied; had the unusual "wrinkle" of wanting an arts program within a college or uni (playwriting/screenplay writing) and NOT Ivy. I see another inquiry about Arts + Early, which is another story than IVY + Early, so I'll try to address both ideas. Although Ivies aren't our preference for undergraduate education, my two older kids attend top-25 LAC's (Amherst, Oberlin), so I also am conversant with life in the 800-land where Ivies dance. </p>

<p>Now, reflecting upon this youngest S of ours, now a h.s. senior who turned 17 on Dec 31 of last year...:
of the 3 colleges/unis that just took him this month, all were midsize universities and colleges, none were the huge places (UCLA, NYU, Syracuse).
Perhaps that personal, holistic review of his entire app was what it took to gain entry into the 3 places that welcomed him.</p>

<p>On reflection, I admit that a boy might be considered less mature than a girl, so I'd always wonder about the gender issue, and assume the girl is mature.
The boy might have to prove it (via teacher recs, for example).</p>

<p>Your Ivy-hopeful D does sound brilliant !! -- b/c of all the things you've described that she's done! Congrats and enjoy!
But these colleges are full of people with things equally remarkable. It's hard to believe, but that's what I'm reading and hearing back from my college-age kids.
At least I'd want feedback to know the difference before setting up a h.s. student for a year of Ivy college apps (very hard and time consuming processes!). She'll have to compete with 10 equally outstanding, who ALSO come with the age maturity. So why SHOULD they prefer your D when she'd be even better ready a year later? It's just logical they'd choose someone stellar, age 18 over your stellar, age 17. </p>

<p>Well, that's all conjecture. But this part, I do know for sure: my actual S's finishing in 3 years cost him, here and there, on his trasncript or study time for SAT's, which undercut his applications. His schoolwork was squeezed around early research on colleges and deciding where to apply, then writing the apps while taking SAT's for the first time. We always felt that missed llth grade in terms of the calendar year re: college search process. So we never set foot on a single campus and found no time for a single interview! There was time to excel in coursework, study (rushed) and take SAt I's and II's...do intercity travel to carry out responsibly a national leadership post he was elected to...learning to DRIVE...OMG! And the personal stuff: a first girlfriend,
a grandfather who died, out-of-town funeral...more and more. Way too many overlaps, now that I look back.</p>

<p>By personality he never stresses (I do). His delightful, bouncy personality got us both through. And I could always say: YOU made us do this :)</p>

<p>If a kid's personality hardwiring sounds very serious, tense, stressable, then I'd think about that piece long and hard before attempting a 3-year-run through h.s. </p>

<p>Here's just one example: We moved cross-state in the summer between his 8th and 9th grades. He had already finished his foreign language grad requirement (Hebrew, regents-tested, all done in a Hebrew day school... Ta Da!)
But he loves to learn (like your kid) so wanted a second foreign language. To get the language he wanted (Spanish), he took 3 weeks of tutoring in August because 9th grade has only "Span 2" and he couldn't schedule in trips back to their middle school for Span I...
Now, if you have the patience to hear about all that, you might understand why there's that "C" in Spanish 2 for first term 9th grade, and be impressed that he parachuted into a second year to start with, and it came up to an A by Springtime...and he stayed with it into advanced...and he now has 2 completed foreign languages when only 1 was required for graduation...</p>

<p>OR, you might be a great big university and just see that nasty "C" staring up from the transcript, and say "Nope!" and move on down the file. </p>

<p>There are kids who can "do it all" including the 3-year timeframe wiithout ANY slipups. But we did experience compromised SAT scores, rushed study time for SAT's, etc because of jamming in college search research, learning to drive,
early AP's and all of that. In the end, he looks more like a B+ unweighted student (and 5 AP courses), but others applying do all that and make A's, so who cares about his "story"? The college is admitting a semi-finished product and you set her up to compete against other outstanding students who are "finished" with time to do every bell and whistle, no rush...that'd be why not to do it. </p>

<p>So I'd say: choose which you want MORE, Ivy or Early? If you're D is Stephen Hawkings-ette, of course, go for it all.</p>

<p>But, if you want Early and Top Quality Education, then why not open up and look at some elite LAC's? There, the admissions offices are smaller and more holistic in how they view each application. An elite LAC might take more time with her application than an Ivy, and yet I've heard some elite LAC's don't enjoy seeing these from the outset. But at least they'd tell you by phone now if they consider early apps.</p>

<p>A side-comment, not that anyone uttered the "b" word on this site (in our house, we call "bored" the "b" word and don't allow it; if you're bored it's your problem and responsibility to find interest within even a dull situation. Perhaps that's why my D is doing a lot of improv comedy these days?) That thought just popped into my head.</p>

<p>My S didn't want Ivies, rather he wanted to graduate EARLY. First, he was sophisticated enough to see from his older sibs that the flaws on his transcript (due to rushing) would weaken his apps to Ivies. But, more important, he wants to write for the theater or film, so a different kind of university with strong vocational approaches to screenwriting works for him.</p>

<p>And, btw, it's all working out great! His top choice admission is Chapman U, Dodge College of FIlm and Media, which has average SAT's around 1850 all 3 scores but a powerhouse program for film students within a B.A. system -- perfect for him! far for us across the country, but we're figuring it out).</p>

<p>But back to that Ivy concern:
I notice from the 8 schools where he applied, the 3 that accepted him were small or midsize universities/colleges with specialized arts portfolio reviews.
He was rejected from very large universities (not Ivies, but: UCLA, NYU, Syracuse). </p>

<p>Whether that was due to transcript flaws or the early grad, we'll never know...but logically, I can't see how the age immaturity HELPS anywhere! </p>

<p>I've gotten interrupted a few times while writing this, but am just going to send now, hoping the two readers can ferret out what they need. My apologies for length and poor organization on this posting. Regards to all.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the info and advice.</p>

<p>BROWN
2 years ago, a friend completed his HS graduation requirements as a Junior and applied to Brown and NYU. He was rejected by Brown and accepted into NYU with a merit scholarship. He decided not to graduate from HS and spent senior year there, reapplying to Brown and was admitted.</p>

<p>And here's a curious question. Our h.s. called this "skipping 11th grade" which gave him the social status (for proms, elections etc.) of a senior this past year.
But I wonder if it's more stand-out and noticeable if a potentially early grad applies in the "Junior" not "Senior" year. Our "Senior" S put the phrase "skipped 11th grade" on the apps when asked to write anything extra the committee should know. He didn't write an essay about it, and I don't think he should have. THere are more important things to say about onesself. I doubt anyone could have missed it once they view the transcript, of course. </p>

<p>It also meant, in our high school, that he could not be ranked. Here, that worked in his favor b/c it's a very competitive suburban school. But for others, inquire whether this makes your child "rankless" or "(w)rankle-free" (begs for a funny name). </p>

<p>However, I now read that some early grads write a supplementary essay explaining why they did Early Graduation. Hm. Could be a good idea! AdComs must wonder.</p>

<p>If I were to advise someone on what to write, I think I'd say it's more important to say why you do it in terms of what you hope to accomplish in the near future, sooner, eager for challenge, and have demonstrated maturity as follows....than to imply you're bored with or smarter than everything that surrounds you. </p>

<p>All of my kids were firm believers in only submitting what's asked for, and no extra. It's a balance, and keeps things strong if you don't add pieces sometimes or risk wearing out a committee. Probably point out that one is an early grad can be fit into the existing formats just fine, but like anything, that's personal judgment.</p>

<p>My son's "why I'm applying early" essay was very simple: "I'm out of courses to take, except senior year English. Please get me out of here." (I am paraphrasing slightly.)</p>

<p>LOL on that one above.</p>

<p>That'd work on me; who can't relate to that?</p>

<p>I don't recall my S having to write why he was graduating early. I don't know if his GC or teachers addressed this issue in their recss, either. He did make a passing mention about taking college courses as one reason why he had so little time for ECs and therefore valuing the social aspects of the Science Team.</p>

<p>I normally lurk, but I figured I'd speak up since Brown is being discussed.
It doesn't necessarily have to come down to Early vs Ivy. I applied early to Brown regular decision this year and it became my first choice before decisions rolled around and was admitted. It can be done and for the record, I didn't write about why I was graduating early or anything like that.</p>

<p>Thanks one and all for all your anecdotes, insights, advice and consideration.</p>

<p>Just for the record, my kiddo isn't brilliant; high-achieving, yes, disciplined, yes, focused, yes, but she really is a regular kid who thankfully takes her studies seriously.</p>

<p>I've been absorbing all your comments and experiences, recommendations and thoughtfully posed questions. I've had a lot to think over and am still trying to come to some recommendation for her. I have passed on the suggestion that she be the one to contact the colleges and ask about early-high school grad policies and procedures to her. I don't know whether she'll do it, but I figure if she really wants this, she will.</p>

<p>She is not having a great week in terms of looking forward to a full four-years of high school. Too many group projects assigned without being able to choose group members. She volunteered to co-ordinate the final product for the most recent group so that she'd have some control over the single grade they all get. Even though the assignment had been made a full week plus a week-end prior to the due date, there she is on a Sunday afternoon hounding several members to turn in their portion of the project. One never did, so kiddo did that assignment along with her own and the final co-ordination for the presentation. The girl who did absolutely nothing got the same A- the rest of the group got. The project was marked down for aspects that were in the control of other members. She was accepting of that grade because it was the highest given in the class and short of becoming a work-hog or micro-managing everything (not a good trait I think we'd all agree), there had to be some autonomy and delegation.</p>

<p>Other classes have similar methods. In Latin, the teacher tells them to pick a partner to work on the translations. Kiddo is the only one who does her homework (hard to believe, but she really isn't exaggerating), so they all turn to her and say, "I'm with you!" She does all the translating because regardless of who her partner is, they contribute nothing and she's not willing to forego her own good grades.</p>

<p>She's mostly frustrated with the lack of interest by her fellow students and the teachers appearing to enable it. The group project deal is suppose to mimic the real world where you are stuck with others on projects. (Who dreams this stuff up!) However, with one single grade for everyone and no peer or individual review component, it simply rewards the true slackers and drags the achievers down. In the real world, those workers would get pink slips, not A-.</p>

<p>She's used to a school environment where the kids are invested in their learning and, for the most part, participate in doing the work. Group projects were always a pain because of the hours she dedicated to her club sport and the fact that no one lived by each other when they go to private schools, but the kids prided themselves on working with very few exceptions.</p>

<p>This school really has the most to offer among the multiple private and public high school available in our area. However, this kid is afraid she will adapt to the masses if she stays so frustrated for the next three years. For the first time ever, she's wondering why she should bother maintaining her 97-100+ class averages when the other students get the same A without doing the work.</p>

<p>Sorry for the vent.</p>

<p>She has her eye on Stanford or Princeton. However, I'm getting the impression that if she were more inclusive in her potential search, she wouldn't have much problem getting into a good college if she chooses to graduate in three years---it just might not be Princeton or Stanford.</p>

<p>I really don't think it would put much pressure on her to finish the high honors diploma in that time frame. She would just need to take the 4th year of English on-line. Her sister just did that, completing the AP English Language course through Northwestern in less than 3 months. So, the younger one figures she could do it over the summer when she gets home mid-afternoon from athletic training and if she still has some to complete in the Fall.</p>

<p>Now, the point about whether the high school would let her stay for the fourth year once she has all her credits IS something I would need to look into. I don't know the answer, but since someone brought it up, I DO remember a friend's daughter being "kicked" out of school her second semester of her senior year because she had all her credits---even though she had a few courses she still wanted to take. I never did understand that one. So, your comment does send up a red flag.</p>

<p>This is so complicated! I wish we could decide just to do the full four years. I'd almost come to that conclusion. But the frustration she is experiencing with not just being around the other kids' lack of interest but being directly responsible for dealing with it and having her own grades affected by it is quite disheartening.</p>

<p>She has already completed driver's ed, has a learner's permit, so that is not an issue. In fact, even if she graduates early, she will be 17 turning 18 within a couple months of starting college--which is the same scenario I had without any 'skipping' of grades. Our state just starts kids late for school.</p>

<p>
[quote]
She's used to a school environment where the kids are invested in their learning and, for the most part, participate in doing the work. . . . </p>

<p>This school really has the most to offer among the multiple private and public high school available in our area.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>We did a lot of high school shopping last year, here in town and around the country. We also looked into early college entrance. We found a brand new online</a> high school your daughter could apply to that offered us what we thought was the best available trade-off for this school year. We're happy enough with it to be re-upping for next year. </p>

<p>Good luck in finding a suitable learning situation for your daughter. I agree that finding classmates who are invested in their learning is very important.</p>

<p>Thanks, tokenadult. In fact, our older daughter was accepted into that program and was all set to go---until we went to sign up the classes and realized the 'real-time' component simply wouldn't work for her intensive ballet training school schedule given the time differences involved. Younger daughter said she wanted to do it, but since it would remove her from the social aspect of school, which wouldn't get made up by her athletic endeavor, we just laughed and said 'dream on'. She is one who really thrives on people.</p>

<p>But, given the current status of school academic environment, we made re-visit that thought. Other than the academic environment, she is very proud of the diversity, opportunities for classes, and school pride/spirit of the school. She 'loves' her school and is proud to be a student there . . . she just hates the frustration she is experiencing.</p>

<p>I've been pleased with the social interaction--none of it face-to-face yet--in my son's online high school program, but there is an issue of what time zone you live in and what other activities you have scheduled. Their part-time option is what works for some of the students with really intense ECs. My son was just instant messaging a classmate; basically he is online all day with various classmates from that school now, and looks forward to meeting them in person in the summer (and perhaps going to college with them in a few years).</p>

<p>Paying3tuitions, I do think it is important to articulate to colleges why you have chosen to graduate in three years. As I wrote elsewhere, my kid did include a one page statement of her rationale that included her academic reasons, social ones, personal ones, and artistic ones. She also asked her GC and other rec writers to speak to her readiness for college as an early graduate. Her regular essays had nothing to do with this however. But early graduates are scrutinized a bit more and schools will look to see if they think the student is ready academically, personally, and socially, and so I think it makes sense for the student to articulate in his/her own words these very reasons for this path. I know my kid made her case with us and so it made sense that the colleges knew it as well. </p>

<p>Treemavin.....besides looking into early graduation, I would also advise you look into ways to accomodate your D's learning needs at school so that she might be more challenged or happy. In fact, even IF she graduates early, those valid issues you brought up still exist during the years she is a student at that school. With my kids, we had to advocate for accomodations to meet their learning needs at school. While one kid did end up opting to graduate early, both she and her sister had some accomodations and did some things with their schooling that were not the norm at the school. These things had to be addressed and so I would urge you to seek out options for your D's education both within in school or any other that are available to her. Here, our school is the only game in town. We worked with the school to try to accomodate the kids. In fact, in my early graduate's GC rec for colleges, he speaks about a meeting my D was in with us and all her teachers, principal, state department specialist, GC, etc. back in seventh grade (it is a MS/HS here, same GC the whole time) and how she advocated for her learning, etc. Her path was not a normal one at our school, and neither was my older D's. So, no matter if your kid graduates early or not, look into whatever solutions and accomodations that you can create and advocate for, so that her educational experience might be improved.</p>