Graduation Trip to Paris.....without adults

Parents Forum
21

<p>I would want to know what hotel they are staying in, what part of town, what itinerary they're planning, etc. but in the end, I would probably take a deep breath and let her go. Who knows when she might have the money or opportunity to see Paris on her own dime? This is one of those can't miss opportunities, I think. Basically, at 18 she is no longer a child and needs to spread her wings. In a few months, she will be off to live in a college town and have to navigate her life on her own. </p>

<p>We allowed our 17-year-old son to travel to Rome and Milan with two h.s. age friends the summer after graduation (he turned 18 in Sept after returning home.) They stayed in hotels for a few days out of the three-week trip, but also were able to stay in the homes of some Italian friends they'd met at a pre-college summer program. We didn't speak to him that often while he was away, but we did require that he check in whenever the place they were staying changed so we would have an address and phone number of where they were.</p>

22

<p>I've been thinking about this thread all day, because my D, age 19, is off traveling today. She flew alone to Riga, Latvia this AM and then went by bus to somewhere in Lithuania, where she met a group she'll be working with in a volunteer setting for the next few weeks. Fortunately, she updated me by text message at every stage; still, it was a relief to get her last message a few minutes ago saying that she is with the group now. She did end up in one little bus station where no one spoke English, but she's had a year of Russian and that worked.</p>

<p>applicantmum--really, I think you should base your decision on your assessment of your daughter's maturity level, and don't let the language issue be a big factor. Your D would not have any trouble at all getting along in Paris using English, as long as she and her friend are sensible. If you would feel comfortable sending her off with a friend to an English-speaking country, she'll be fine in Paris.</p>

23

<p>I don't understand the hesitation from some of you. What if this young lady had chosen to go to the University of Paris for college in September?</p>

24

<p>Agree with katliamom: "If these are on the whole mature and savvy girls, let D go."</p>

<p>D visited Paris for ten days after first semester Freshman year. She had a friend there (who had friends, etc. etc.) and they all had a wonderful time. Mixed blessing for parents though -- now D whines that we never take her anywhere.</p>

25

<p>"I don't understand the hesitation from some of you. What if this young lady had chosen to go to the University of Paris for college in September?"</p>

<p>Not all 18 year olds are savvy enough and responsible enough to go off to a foreign country by themselves. Many are, but not all, particularly if they have never had any practice at all traveling solo and/or have a history of making bad or naive decisions.</p>

<p>If a child is going off to college in Paris, they would at least have a large base of support to call on in the event of a problem. I think that is the main thing that would be a nagging thought to me. My daughter is quite responsible; in fact, she went to summer school in England by herself the summer before her junior year. That's nowhere near the same as being all by herself with only another 17 year old. </p>

<p>I went to Europe by myself for 7 months as a 23 y/o. I remember distinctly some parental resistance/concern. But since I was paying for it and was a full-fledged adult, it was my call. Still, they worried the entire time...</p>

26

<p>Maturity level is most important.
However, if you're really uncertain, I would go with my gut instinct and say "not this time."
Paris will always be there. Don't let the 'free trip' deal be a deciding factor.
...and you may all hate me, but am I the only one thinking of Natalee Holloway?</p>

27

<p>I'd say let her go. However, make sure YOU have a passport just in case she needs you over there for any reason. My daughter went to England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales with the Student Ambassador program when she was 12. With all of the prep for the months prior to the trip, I never thought about getting my own passport. I panicked when I realized this a few days before she was going. Thank goodness everything turned out okay (which I'm sure it will for your daughter as well) but better to plan ahead.</p>

<p>Good luck</p>

28

<p>
[quote]
Not all 18 year olds are savvy enough and responsible enough to go off to a foreign country by themselves.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>If this young lady is going away from home to college in September, I don't see any big difference in this. What is it that people are worried about that would be any different than an 18 year old attending college in an unfamiliar city? This is a one week trip, to one city. It's a city that is easily navigated and explored without speaking the language. Safeguards and plans can be implemented to provide assistance should 'a problem' arise. I suppose if a student of this age is not mature enough to go away from home to college then perhaps I'd understand the concern here.</p>

<p>
[quote]
...and you may all hate me, but am I the only one thinking of Natalee Holloway?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Does this mean you wouldn't allow your daughter to go away to college?</p>

29

<p>I actually thought of Natalee Holloway too. I do think it was a somewhat different situation where Natalee's parents assumed there would be more supervision than there was, and perhaps didn't fully appreciate the drinking tourist culture of nightlife in the Caribbean. </p>

<p>That said, I would only let my child go if I felt they'd had some experience traveling and that they were fairly urban savvy or you felt you could rehearse some of the what ifs. What if you lose your passport. What if your money is stolen. What if you and your friend have a big fight. Etc.</p>

<p>I traveled alone in Europe from the time I was 16 on, but I'd grown up overseas and had traveled extensively with my parents. My parents never heard about some of my adventures. Going through the British Museum with a charming older man, until he turned not so charming... Getting stuck in a train carriage with a flasher... Learning never to sit down alone in a French park, because there'd be a dozen immigrant men who thought I was fair game... But nothing truly bad ever happened to me. Even the time I foolishly decided to go hitchhiking with a girlfriend. (The one time I've been seriously frightened.) </p>

<p>If your daughter is level-headed and her friend is too, I expect she'll be fine.</p>

30

<p>I completely agree with the above posters that it's not a complete "no-brainer" she should be allowed to go to Paris by herself. Maturity level, common sense, and basic international experience are all very important. </p>

<p>For instance, what happens if she has an accident? You may think that's not going to happen, but I know from personal experience, it might. I was in France with my two teenage daughters and niece several years ago, slipped in a train station (on spilled wine!), broke my fibula and had to be taken to the hospital in an ambulance. </p>

<p>The doctors insisted I needed emergency surgery at that VERY moment to put a pin in my leg. (There was a lot of pressure for me to go straight to the operating room). I was actually heading to London on the Eurostar, and just wanted to get to a hospital there so I could communicate adequately, but they wouldn't release me from the French hospital. (Evidently there's a French law that they can't release you from the hospital unless they're certain you're being cared for adequately.) I really felt, in a sense, like a hostage. They were VERY nice and could not have given me better attention, but they had their rules to follow. </p>

<p>It took several hours of negotiating with the nice French doctors, but I finally talked them into releasing me to some friends in London. In the end, they actually seemed glad to have a reason to let me go. In London, I went straight to the hospital and the very charming Aussie doctor there said I could wait on surgery till I got home. Getting my ticket changed and permission to fly with a recently broken bone was another nightmare altogether, though.</p>

<p>Bottom line, I DIDN"T need surgery at all (and in fact the surgery could have caused lifetime problems) , but the recommendation of the doctors and sequence of events was leading me straight there-- and very quickly--except I insisted otherwise . I honestly don't think an average 18 year old would have the maturity to handle that experience. I, as an almost 50 year old with lots of international travel, found it fairly unnerving. </p>

<p>Not saying your daughter SHOULDN'T go. In fact my 18 year old who was with me during the broken ankle incident is going over alone with a friend next week. But she went through that experience with me and has traveled to Europe with student groups for the last 5-6 years. I trust her judgment and experience level more than most adults'. </p>

<p>Anyway, just something to think about and to discuss possible scenarios with your daughter.</p>

31

<p>Of course, she should go. If you know that your door is responsible and not not prone to wild behavior, there should be no problem. Paris is a very safe city. In fact, I feel safer there than in most American cities. If you D is not a city girl, do make sure she knows how to behave safely in a city setting.</p>

32

<p>If this young lady is going away from home to college in September, I don't see any big difference in this. What is it that people are worried about that would be any different than an 18 year old attending college in an unfamiliar city? This is a one week trip, to one city. It's a city that is easily navigated and explored without speaking the language. Safeguards and plans can be implemented to provide assistance should 'a problem' arise. I suppose if a student of this age is not mature enough to go away from home to college then perhaps I'd understand the concern here.</p>

<p>Quote:
...and you may all hate me, but am I the only one thinking of Natalee Holloway? </p>

<p>Does this mean you wouldn't allow your daughter to go away to college?</p>

<p>Sorry,and I say this with no disrespect intended, I think you are way simplifying this. You seem to have difficulty seeing this from anyone else's eyes. I can see both sides of this scenario, from letting a kid go with few worries and regretfully declining the offer. I repeat that it depends on the individual whether or not they can handle even a week in a foreign land sans adult "help." Many would do just fine regardless, many would do just fine if they didn't run into any real trouble, and a few would flounder miserably. I posed this question to my 18 y/o daughter and she said "obviously it depends on the maturity of the kids involved. Also their experience traveling out of the country." She knows a whole lot of wonderful kids of this age she believes would not handle this kind of thing as beautifully as some would think.</p>

<p>I speak French and have been to Paris many times. The last time I went, there was a misunderstanding at a dept. store. I was buying several items, a purse among them. Long story short, the clerk assumed the purse was mine, I didn't notice when I paid that the purse (very inexpensive) was not among the items, and was stopped when I tried to leave. I was accused of stealing, and NO ONE in the store would admit to speaking English. This was a major dept. store right in the center of the city! I was able to talk myself out of the situation , but it was difficult, even with my adequate (though far from fluent) grasp of the language. Had I not spoken French, I would have ended up in jail in a whole heap of trouble. I was told as much by the store personnel, who was quite a bully. As it was, I came very close. My daughter was literally shaking in fear, thinking her mother was going to be carted off to jail, leaving her to fend for herself in a large foreign city. I'm pretty sure this is not a situation many 18 y/o could handle, especially one who doesn't speak the language, and especially considering the confrontational demeanor of the store security personnel.</p>

<p>Point is, this is how it is a "big difference from going to college in an unfamiliar city". It is nowhere near the kind of thing an American girl would encounter by "going away to college" in the States. Rare, yes, I've been to France many times and never had a problem, but it finally did happen and I barely was able to handle it as an adult who does speak the language. It's absolutely not true that English will ALWAYS be spoken, though it usually is.</p>

<p>Going off to college to a city in one's own country (and likely with a huge support system offered by the college) and going off alone to a foreign country with only a 17 y/o companion are not the same thing. I think a parent who gives it due consideration as opposed to immediately equating it to going off to college at home is being quite prudent. She may end up giving it the green light, but it's certainly something worth thinking through carefully with all factors considered.</p>

33

<p>I vote for letting her go but having a BIG chat/planning session beforehand. This is what my parents did with me before I went to the UK for 7 months as an 18 yo straight out of high school. We talked through all the "what if" scenarios (as someone mentioned in an earlier post). What if I lost my passport/travel docs/purse? What if I got sick/injured? What if my flights were cancelled? What if my luggage got lost? How could I safely get around London at night? Etc....</p>

<p>By talking through the scenarios, it hit home to me that if I took the trip, I had to behave like an adult because there was no one else looking out for me! But it was reassuring to know what I could do if things went wrong. I made a list of contacts & phone numbers (embassy/consulate, closest police station, hospital, church, credit card company, airline, travel insurance company) to keep with me. I was probably a bit OTT in my preparation but it set my mind at ease to know I was prepared for the worst! And in the end, I didn't need any of it.</p>

<p>If you do let her go, ask around if anyone you know knows anyone in Paris who can be a "go to" person in an emergency. Even if you don't know anyone personally, maybe someone you trust has a friend or relative who would be happy to help out if they were needed. I didn't know anyone in London but I had the phone numbers of my dad's secretary's son and my best friend's great aunt and they were both very welcoming and kind.</p>

34

<p>What a wonderful opportunity. I have not read through all of the suggestions, but do you know your daughter's friend fairly well? Does your daughter feel comfortable going to Paris with her? If you both feel comfortable with the friend, I would say yes. My husband traveled through Europe for 6 weeks after high school graduation.</p>

35

<p>I would let my daughter go as I believe that she's mature, responsible enough, etc., and she's well-traveled for an 18 y-o.
However, for all the parents who believe that going away to college is akin to going away to a strange city for the first time with one other teen, please think again.
Only Applicantmum herself can determine the situation. If she feels overly-anxious about this trip because of concerns about her D or friend, then perhaps she should not go. However, if the anxiety is about the destination, then I wouldn't worry too much about it.</p>

36

<p>nrdsb4, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. My 4Ds have travelled extensively, together, with friends, with family, and alone, since they were in early to mid teens, both in the U.S. and internationally, as have many other kids we know. Is there potential for running into problems? Of course, just as there is when they're travelling in North America. As I pointed out, safeguards and protections can easily be put in place to handle potential difficulties prior to a trip overseas. Is it really any more dangerous than two recent h/s grads travelling to NYC? Doubtful. I acknowledged that if the girl is immature and unable to handle travelling alone that it might be an issue but if she's going away from home to college in September, she's likely to be faced with much greater challenges than she would in a week in Paris. That was my point. I never said that English will "ALWAYS" be spoken, obviously that isn't the case in a foreign country. I said that it is a country easily navigated without speaking English, and it is. Problems can happen anywhere and people can find themselves in situations anywhere, including in the good old U.S.A. </p>

<p>mom0809, having been through this with 4 Ds, thank you but I don't have to "think again". :) If your child is going away to college to a large city environment, the similarities are much greater than the differences in this situation. Bad things can happen anywhere and at anytime, as was sadly evidenced last week when those four boy scouts were killed in the tornado.</p>

37

<p>
[quote]
Bad things can happen anywhere and at anytime, as was sadly evidenced last week when those four boy scouts were killed in the tornado.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I really agree with this. I know someone who was traveling in a city in the US and was robbed and assaulted. He is okay today, but it meant weeks in a hospital and a year of recovery. We know someone else who was killed while a college student. He was employed in a pharmacy somewhere in the US, and he was murdered at his place of employment during an armed robbery.</p>

<p>I am editing to say that I know of an elderly couple who were vacationing in a foreign country. I believe it was Austria. The H had a stroke while there. At that time he was not very old, he was about 65. He had wonderful medical care. This was nearly 20 years ago, so I don't recall the insurance issues, but I know that they did not pay much out of pocket for his care. It did mean that their support system was in the US and they needed to stay for a few months. It all worked out. It was stressful for the couple, but they made it back to the US. The gentleman is fine, and is still alive and he must be well into his 80s.</p>

38

<p>Maybe ask around to see if anyone knows a Paris resident that they could call if they get into a sticky situation? I swear, I know many, many immature and drunken high school kids who go off to Europe every summer for their senior trips and nothing has ever gone wrong. Like the above poster, one who got run over by a car and broke her foot during study abroad received excellent medical care in the hospital and the whole ordeal only cost $200.00. There is danger lurking everywhere, even in countries where everyone speaks English. If you can reach a comfort level with this, let her go.</p>

39

<p>If you're comfortable with the values you've instilled in her, let her go. If you're not, keep her home.</p>

<p>Its that simple.</p>

40

<p>We live in a European city in Germany with teens and I have allowed my teen daughters to travel with friends with and without adults. Granted they are experienced and speak the language but I think that the opportunities to travel and experience another country first hand far outweigh any dangers that might occur. Public transportation is great and fairly safe (there are pickpockets so beware of that). If you feel that your daughter is mature and has a good head on her shoulders I say go for it but not without the obligatory parental safety lecture!!!! I will tell you from experience what I would "warn" her about. The drinking age is 16 and there is a lot of it going on, there are a lot of young men out there trying to meet some pretty american girls...as there are anywhere so she needs to be wise, don't go off with anyone alone and be very careful if she is drinking to not compromise herself by drinking too much where she is not in control. (Don't assume that because she doesn't drink in the states that she might not try it in Europe). Stay in well light, well traveled areas and avoid deserted areas at night. All the same advice you would give her if she were going to a big American city. In the end you need to be comfortable sending her and only you know your child and know whether she can handle it. By the way... I have noticed in the past couple of weeks a lot of American teens backpacking around and have spoken to quite a few while running around town. She will have a lot of company!!!</p>