Grammatical question- PLEASE HELP!

<p>Hello,</p>

<p>In one of my essays, I have an awkward situation:</p>

<p>"I loved the way you sang 'Mary had a little lamb'," the judge smiled.</p>

<p>Is the comma within the single quote and then the ' and " follow, or is the comma like it is above, or is it completely outside both the ' and the "? It's confusing- I've already sent it to 3 schools like it is above, but for the other two I'm thinking it's more correct to write "I loved the way you sang 'Mary had a little lamb,'" the judge smiled.</p>

<p>Ideas?</p>

<p>You did it right (the way I would do it, in any case). The quotes around 'Mary Had a Little Lamb' are just to designate the title of a song (like putting quotes around a "literal" set of characters in computer code), not punctuation of the sentence itself or to offset one phrase from another.</p>

<p>It doesn't matter what the quotation marks are there to set off, I'm afraid. In American convention, starting about fifty years ago (more or less), the rules changed so that commas and periods ALWAYS go inside all closing quotation marks. It's still a logical choice in British convention, which is why you'll see variations in older texts and those printed outside the USA. So the correct version is "I loved the way you sang 'Mary Had a Little Lamb,' " the judge smiled.</p>

<p>BTW, I love grammar questions (It's like a puzzle to me)--used to teach the grammar review course at the uni--and would be happy to answer any such questions for app essay writers.</p>

<p>This summary shows the choice to be less absolute, even in Brittish publications.</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I agree with ctymomteacher. The comma always goes inside the quotations: </p>

<p>From the website mackinaw posted:</p>

<p>In American English, commas and periods always go inside the quotation marks, no matter the circumstance:</p>

<p>He is called "HAL." </p>

<h2>Also called “plain quotes,” they are teardrops. </h2>

<p>What I didn't know and what surprises me is that question marks can be outside quotations sometimes:</p>

<p>from the website: Question marks and exclamation marks must rely on logic to determine whether they go inside or outside:</p>

<p>Did he say, "Good morning, Dave"? </p>

<h2>No, he said, "Where are you, Dave?" </h2>

<p>the things we learn from CC!!</p>

<p>It's not the question you are asking, but IMHO I think the grammar could also be improved on another point. Rather than designating the song title with interior quotes, it would be better to italicize it and capitalize each major word of the title.</p>

<p>Good point, Coureur.... I think that would be a much better way of expressing the title. The way it reads now is like a verse from the song, which it could be... but probably the OP means it to read like the title. Good catch!</p>

<p>Actually, song titles aren't italicized. They are put in quotation marks, but they do need capitalization for major (non-function) words. Things that get purchased separately (the record album on which the song is recorded, for example) get italicized.</p>

<p>The original sentence seems to accord more closely with the first example provided by momof2inca.
Cf:
"I loved the way you sang 'Mary had a little lamb'," the judge smiled.
Did he say, "Good morning, Dave"?
No, he said, "Where are you, Dave?" </p>

<p>But I agree on the issue of italicizing. Book titles are italicized. Chapters in books or articles in journals are in quotation marks. By the way, we could not make the software italicize, so my S underlined titles by hand on his apps.</p>

<p>Not having to do with punctuation, but I'd dock points for the "smiled." You can't "smile" a sentence. There are all sorts of attempts to substitute for "said" and oftentimes they don't work. There are things you can't gasp or can't snarl or can't hiss and yet I've seen them in writing. Best you can do is "I loved...," said the judge with a smile.</p>

<p>This is really a question of what is called "style" rather than a question of grammar. In the United States, the authoritative source for rules of correct style is the Chicago Manual of Style, which I used to use when I worked as an editor. That book can answer both questions here: whether or not to put quotation marks around the song title, and where to put the comma in relation to the quotation marks in the sentence.</p>

<p>Thank you for your replies, although some say to do it one way and others another. Does it REALLY matter? I just want to do whatever way the admins like it! </p>

<p>Unfortunately, I cannot underline/ital on the common app, it doesn't support that. Thanks for the input, though.</p>

<p>Chicago Manual of Style agrees with ctymomteacher on the italics/quotes question, although it bases the distinction on how things are published and not how they are purchased. In any case, I stand corrected.</p>

<p>"Does it REALLY matter? I just want to do whatever way the admins like it!" </p>

<p>One of the scariest things about the book by Chuck Hughes, a former Harvard admissions officer, is that his writing is somewhat worse than that of many college applicants. And he even mentions a pet peeve grammar rule on which his opinion is WRONG. Anyone who is really worried about fine points of grammar and style can get a standard grammar reference book (it would be overkill to get the excellent Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, which doesn't give prescriptive advice anyway) and the Chicago Manual of Style to check while composing the essay, but it's still not a sure thing what the reader will think of the essay. Rewrite a sentence entirely (an old editor's trick) if you can't figure out how to punctuate it, but don't lose sleep over commas. In an interesting enough essay, most readers' eyes will pass right over picky issues of punctuation. </p>

<p>Good luck in the application process.</p>

<p>I agree that Hughes does not seem to possess a great grasp of grammar and vocabulary. I guess there has to be something about Harvard graduates and hockey players -read Al Gore's book on the environment and you'll understand. </p>

<p>There is however a lesson to be learned when reading former adcoms' books. Even if Mr. Hughes believes -erroneously- that "myriad" should only be used as an adjective, and that he would immediately discount essays that contain such a "mistake". </p>

<p>The lesson is to avoid all words that could cause an issue and stick to every day's words. Using words that the common adcom might not understand is not the smartest move.</p>