GRE Questions

Parents Forum
1

<p>I’ve been spending some time with the GRE’s on-line FAQ’s and find I have what are, evidently, some INfrequently asked questions about the brave new world of graduate school admissions.</p>

<li><p>What’s common practice? Take the exam on computer or paper? Advantages/disadvantages of either?</p></li>
<li><p>How many times do kids normally take it? Just once? Twice? Repeatedly?</p></li>
<li><p>Do most kids take a prep course? Is there a recommended book for self study?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>3A. POWERPREP (as provided by GRE) is not available for Macs? How can this be? </p>

<li><p>I know this is a rather general question, but what’s the expectation for scores? About the same as the SATI? Or is it much more difficult?</p></li>
<li><p>Again, rather general, but how do you find out what graduate schools are looking for in scores? </p></li>
<li><p>What’s this all about?
“Because both of these sections are computer-adaptive, the questions presented are selected to reflect your performance on preceding questions and the requirements of the test design. Test design factors that influence which questions are presented to you include”</p></li>
</ol>

<p>(I definitely fall into the Luddite category for computer sophistication, but this sounds just weird!)</p>

<p>As I wrote on another thread this graduate school thing is deja vu all over again. I’m sure my son will get appropriate guidance on campus, but I’d like to be able to follow along. Appreciate comments from those who have gone through the process.</p>

2

<p>
[quote]
What’s this all about?
"Because both of these sections are computer-adaptive, the questions presented are selected to reflect your performance on preceding questions and the requirements of the test design. Test design factors that influence which questions are presented to you include

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It's been many years since I've seen the GRE so I can't help with your first questions. However, I do know about "adaptive" testing. It's not what you might think. The questions are, as stated, reflective of your performance on preceding questions. Think of it kinda like PacMac, where the more bad guys you cream, the harder they get to cream. The better you're doing, the harder it gets. All the professional computer certification exams work like that.</p>

3

<p>Momrath, I took it a couple of years ago. S is taking it now for grad school next year.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>You don't get a choice if you're taking it in the USA. It's on computer.</p></li>
<li><p>You can take it as many times as you like, but it's expensive (about $130 each time). Don't know what most kids do but probably not more than two, probably to raise one score or the other. I only took it once.</p></li>
<li><p>Depends on whether you'll do better in quant or verbal. Good general prep: GRE for Dummies. Goes over strategies for every type of question and the essays, has sample tests. Great tips, especially if you've been out of the college loop for a while. Verbal prep: Princeton Review's "hit parade" word list; I think Barrons has one, too; it's groups of words, about 3000-3500 words.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>3a. Don't know.</p>

<ol>
<li> Scores often don't correlate with the SAT. For one thing, it's a computer adaptive test, very different from a paper test. For another thing, kids who spent 4 years of college with a focus in either math/tech or liberal arts will probably do better on the corresponding section. If you did well on one in the SATs, you'll probably do well on the same one on the GRE. The math GRE corresponds well in difficulty to the SAT. The verbal GRE is more difficult than the verbal SAT (generally acknowledged). Expectations vary. The consensus seems to be that GRE scores don't get you in but they can keep you out if they're very low. Math-y types applying to top programs should shoot for an 800 math. Verbal types should shoot for a 700-plus, which is about 99% (at least on the test I took). GRE subject exams vary greatly; some programs want them and some don't; some want them but don't count them heavily, other factors weighing more. Check with the individual program.</li>
</ol>

<p>Time is a factor on the math and writing portions; so plan accordingly and keep an eye on the clock. It helps to know math shortcuts and formula writing. That's where strategy prep helps.</p>

<p>As a rule, competitive grad fellowships care about the GRE scores--the higher the better.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>You can try checking with individual depts. Stats aren't generally widely published or available.</p></li>
<li><p>Computer adaptive: As you answer the questions on the test, the succeeding questions vary. The first five questions on the test set the score for the entire test; so they're very important. Thus: Answer #1. If it's correct, you'll get a harder #2. If it's wrong, you'll get an easier #2. And so on. If you answer all the first 5 correctly, you have the chance for a perfect score by the end. If you don't, you don't. You can't go back to review skipped questions. You must answer each question or skip it and go on. Guessing won't penalize you and process of elimination helps, same as the SAT.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>There's a grad school forum here that's helpful. You might want to peek in there and post questions.</p>

4

<p>Some stats are publicly available. For instance, look at the US News "America's Best Graduate Schools." This gives you some average stats for schools of business, education, engineering, law and medicine. (Yes, I know the GRE only applies to education and engineering -- for the former, verbal and math scores are listed; for the latter, only math. The top 50 education schools have mean verbal scores ranging from 480 to 649, and mean quantitative scores ranging from 520 to 708. The 50 top engineering school have mean quantitative scores ranging from 745 to 778.)</p>

<p>Ask around on CC and at schools if you are dealing with a different discipline. You can get an idea which scores are the most important, how high they need to be for a particular school, what else is important in the application, etc.</p>

5

<p>
[quote]
If you answer all the first 5 correctly, you have the chance for a perfect score by the end. If you don't, you don't.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is close, but not quite true. I got #2 wrong on the verbal when I took this test a few days ago and got an 800. So while the first few questions are more important than the rest, one mistake won't ruin your chances completely.</p>

6

<p>Very, very generally speaking, in many disciplines the GRE is used mostly as a cutoff -- ie all those with composite scores above x move to the next round; that is to say, in general, a bad score can hurt an applicant, but a really stellar score isn't going to help all that much.</p>

7

<p>Momrath:</p>

<p>Admission into Ph.D. programs is handled by departments rather than university-wide adcoms. Each program has its own admission committee and its criteria. An English program will not set as much store--if any--on the quantitative score, but a Physics, Math or Econ department will care about the quantitative and analytic scores more than the verbal scores.
Committee members have their own quirks. Sometimes committee chairs set out criteria before the application folders are read (e.g.: give strong consideration to the verbal, don't worry about the quantitivate, or vice-versa). Sometimes, however, they do not. Different members' grading criteria get hashed out by the committee when readers' scores are averaged out.
Another concern, which does not have to do with GRE, is that admissions reflect faculty interests. So an otherwise qualified student may not be admitted if the department will have no one to advise the student.</p>

<p>Hope this helps. Is it time already for your S to consider grad school? wow!</p>

8

<p>Yes, the cutoff point has also been made many times to me. Apparently fellowships like NSF care more because they have to rank a larger pile of applications, but graduate programs mostly use the GREs to assess competence, not to make fine distinctions at the high end.</p>

9

<p>Thanks, everyone. This is very helpful information.</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>It's unbelievable isn't it? I seem to be about a year ahead of the curve compared to most of the parents here. I explained my son's plans in more detail in my thread about Master in Architecture but basically, today's plan is to apply this year.</p>

10

<p>Hi Momrath,
I have a S at the same stage as yours, in a similar school. (AWS) He has just recently decided that it would be a good idea to have a plan for after this coming June. Thus, the GRE's. As you have been told, in the USA they are computer based. You make an appointment at a testing center, like a Sylvan Learning Center. You can find out the nearest testing center online at the GRE website. There are also full length practice tests online which can be downloaded. My S decided to take one while we were on an airplane off to a family vacation. As to correlation with SAT scores, he got virtually an identical score on the practice GRE to what he got in his one sitting for the SAT's. I peeked over his shoulder while he was doing the Verbal part and the vocabulary seemed very difficult. This may also be due to what has been previously explained about the increasing difficulty as you answer more and more questions correctly.</p>

11

<p>My D was a little nonchalant regarding the GRE. Took it one time, Summer between Junior and Senior years. As mollie noted it is many times used as a cutoff, and recs and research are very likely more important for grad admissions.</p>

12

<p>Thanks again for all this information. I’ve decided that I’m better off NOT knowing about the individual schools’ cutoff points or expectations as the results are totally out of my control.</p>

<p>

It’s scary isn’t it? Actually very few of my son’s closest friends have the slightest clue what they are going to do next year. I think the idea of the post-graduate gap year is gaining wider acceptance. I’m not really opposed to it except that it seems so much easier to apply to graduate school while you’re in an academic setting.</p>

<p>PS to Mudder’s M, Thanks for the detailed explanation of the process.</p>

13

<p>Momrath, keep us posted as to your son's plans. You do seem to be a bit ahead of the curve of most of us posting and it's helpful to read about what comes next. :)</p>

14

<p>Common practice? Now the exam is only offered as a computer test, except in special circumstances -- so count on taking the computer test. "Kids" (I say that loosely, because students taking the GRE are no longer kids) take it usually once or twice, and there is a limit on the number of times that you can take it in one year -- I think it's five times. Regarding prep courses, there are tons out there, but they are very expensive. There are free websites out there, however:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.number2.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.number2.com&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.mygretutor.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mygretutor.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And one thing that you should consider: If a student needs to pay thousands of dollars to enroll in a class so that he/she will be forced to study for the GRE, is that student ready to enter graduate school? In graduate school, there is nobody who will force you to succeed -- you have to do it on your own free will.</p>

<p>Expectation of scores? Well, there are averages .. is that what you mean?</p>

<p>Your final question is the most interesting. Each school weighs GRE scores differently. Some schools (such as MIT in some departments), don't even require scores! And depending on the program, it's the verbal or math sections that are considered. For example, when entering a physics program, verbal scores are usually disregarded, while for a graduate program in history, the math scores are usually brushed aside.</p>

<p>And what's "THIS" all about? Well, take a look at the above two websites and each ot them describes the test in detail.</p>

15

<p>momrath-
We're on the same schedule with our older child - she's applying to grad schools this fall. She took the GRE this summer. I believe she prepped with one of the free online prep sites for the week before she went into the test- I thought it was on the GRE site itself, but I could be wrong.</p>

<p>The test was fine. Because she took a couple of the practice tests beforehand, she knew what to expect. She felt the math was harder than the SAT math (although she scored higher), and the verbal was about the same. There is also a writing portion, somewhat like the new SAT writing.</p>

<p>The information here seems to match what we have experienced so far. In talking with one prof from a school she's interested in, she came away with the feeling that they are more concerned with reaching a threshold than with a specific score. He did mention that NSF program would care very much about a score, and her score would be heavily considered when they handed out those fellowships.</p>

<pre><code>The whole grad school app process seems so much less stressful than the undergrad one,- but maybe because I'm too far away to be involved much beyond the cheerleading function. ;) A good fit with the departments you are interested in seems far and away the most important factor, which is something the students can research ahead of time and at least know going in if they are going to be a match. If so, then their statement of purpose, grades, their own research and preparation, and most importantly, their letters of recommendation will come into play.
</code></pre>

<p>My daughter has had several talks with her current professors about the grad programs at the various schools. This, combined with looking up individual faculty, finding their focus, and reading what they've published, has given her enough information to make her application list. She says the private school apps are more straightforward than the public school ones, as they seem to involve several scholarship apps as well. The scholarship applications seem to be a bit more challenging for her to figure out, but I think she can find an advisor or two at school her can help her if she has questions. I feel that this is a big transition for our kids. They are becoming financially independent for the first time. (sort of..:) )</p>

<p>She won't be home again until Christmas, so we won't see her again until
the app process is pretty much overwith. By that time, she'll also have completed her senior project as well. </p>

<p>It all goes by so fast, from a parent's perch.</p>

16

<p>My son took the GRE yesterday (on computer). He loved that he could get his scores (except for the writing one) immediately. He found the math to be about the same as SAT math, except he said there was more geometry. He got a higher score on the math than he had on the SAT. He found the Verbal to be much harder than the SAT, however, and got a lower score on that. However, according to the norms we saw, very few get really high Verbal scores. His only prep was about 4 hours study using a book--Barron's Key to the GRE or something like that--I picked up for him. Since he hasn't even decided if he wants to apply for grad school, he was quite relaxed about the whole thing.</p>

17

<p>Just a word of advice for those of you who will have loved ones applying -- make sure you double-check that the programs have received GRE scores, preferably with a week or two left before deadlines.</p>

<p>In the process of casually checking on my application components (I had a... habitually non-punctual letter-writer, let us say), I found out that my GRE scores hadn't made it to two schools, even though two other schools that I had also requested at the same time did get the scores. It wasn't too terrible, since I had several days before deadlines and could just re-send, but if I hadn't checked, it would have been bad news.</p>

<p>As I'm sure everybody remembers from undergrad applications, ETS is not your friend. :mad:</p>

18

<p>Thanks, mollie. I will pass that along to my D. It's the kind of thing that's easy to overlook. You just assume that your requests will be acted upon, but following up to make sure is important.</p>

19

<p>One can take the paper based GRE. There was a tiny thread on the paper based GRE on the Graduate Students thread a while back. It seems as though almost every state in the union offers that option. But, you get your score back really late if you do the paper based GRE.
I think that this topic would be super cool on the Graduate Students thread. Some of the folks on that thread seem to know a lot and offer scads of hyperlinks sometimes.
Sorry, I mean the area of this site for Graduate Students is called the Graduate School thread or whathaveyou. Sorry.</p>