<p>I'm wondering if any of you have kids that are in, or have completed the Great Books program at St. John's College, or Thomas Aquinas, or the Integral Program at St. Mary's College? Did they enjoy it? Are they happy that they chose that program? Thank you for any insight.</p>
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<p>I don't have a kid, but do have a real life acquaintance (in her 30s I'd guess). She loved her St. John's education. My nephew will be attending next year.</p>
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<p>My friend's son is a sophomore at St. John's - loves, loves, loves it. He's defended 2 mini-theses already. Of note, his mother led Jr. Great Books all through his elementary school years in our school.</p>
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<p>The problem with this type of education is that there is no choice in the curriculum. Everyone takes identical classes. It prepares you to go to law school or do graduate work in philosophy. My acquaintance who has a degree from St. John's is the most knowledgeable person I know, but it did not prepare him to earn a living, and he did not send his children there due to the lack of choice.</p>
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A St. Johns education is an education for life, not an outfitting for a career; on the other hand, it is also a tremendous basis for virtually any subsequent pursuit.
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<p>Johnnies are successful in all walks of life, including in scientific disciplines and professions.</p>
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<p>Hi Karen, my son was really curious about St. John's but decided four years of the Great Books approach was going to drive him to tears by junior year.<br>
He discovered that Boston University has a "mini" Great Books program called "Core." </p>
<p>Read all about it here: ~> <a href="http://www.bu.edu/core/%5B/url%5D">http://www.bu.edu/core/</a></p>
<p>500 kids choose to enroll in the Core program (versus the gazillions who opt for the traditional "Divisional" program) and take classes together in two required classes each semester for the first two years. One is in the Natural Sciences and the other is in Humanities. They attend the weekly lectures together but then the group is broken down into smaller discussion sections of approximately 15-20 kids, which meet 2 or 3 times weekly. </p>
<p>Core kids in their freshman and sophomore years thus commit half of their schedule to Core classes but are free to choose from "regular" classes for the other half.</p>
<p>After two years, Core kids are deemed as having fulfilled BU's general education requirements. Unlike Johnnies, by their Junior year, students are free to enroll in any class they would like, with their majors and/or career goals in mind. With their upperclassman status, their classes sizes are usually small and discussion based, too. Additionally, the opportunities for independent study, writing of theses and doing research in a large university the size of BU with the resources of Boston all around are really appealing.</p>
<p>Well, my S was accepted to BU's honor program and was awarded an extremely generous merit scholarship, so although we always imagined my creative, intellectual quirky son at a warm and fuzzy LAC, we really needed to check out BU in general and this Core program in particular.</p>
<p>So off my son, my husband and I went to Boston for several days to see first hand whether this "compromise" great books program was as cool as they made it out to be in the literature, or as stifling as my S worried it could be (ala St. John's, Thomas Aquinas, or St. Mary's College). </p>
<p>He sat on one three classes, including one honors section discussion group, chatted with the Core kids at lunch to see if they clicked, and so on. To say he was impressed with the professors, the classwork and the students is an understatement! He especially enjoyed that honors class. Over lunch with three Core kids, he learned that he could even request housing with others enrolled in Core. Kids on the "Core Floors" of the huge Warren Towers dorm really loved it, saying it even more firmly established a smaller, warmer, like-minded community within the larger, more intimidating Boston University community. </p>
<p>He found this school-within-a-school to be a perfect fit, went to the bookstore and bought the B.U. hoodie. The deposit would follow the next day. :) He turned down some really amazing LACs -- including Vassar, his original reach school -- to attend Boston University specifically this program.</p>
<p>PM me if you'd like to know more. </p>
<p>Good luck!
Jj (Tufts) and Dj's (BU) mom :)</p>
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<p>Thank you all, good food for thought. I like the idea of BU and St. Mary's where you can change to a different major after two years in the program.</p>
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<p>The University of Chicago and Columbia both have strong core programs with many "great books" similarities. Notre Dame has a wonderful great books program, and I know many extremely successful people who completed that program. I also believe UCSD has a college with a core program that may have great books elements.</p>
<p>EDIT: The University of Chicago also has a major called Fundamentals which is a very interesting and unique program that is largely focused on "great books." I'm working on my application to the Fundamentals major right now. Feel free to PM or ask me here if you have any questions about the University of Chicago.</p>
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<p>Would you Domers please tell me about the Program of Liberal Studies? It looks awesome.Thanks.</p>
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<p>I do not go to Notre Dame, but I can think of six or seven graduates of the program off the top of my head. They all loved the program and are universally respected as being smart, well-rounded, educated citizens. Their jobs range from medicine to law to business to finance, but they were all extremely successful in their fields. According to one of these men who I was talking to, the Program of Liberal Studies was originally based off of Chicago's core curriculum. It's a fantastic program.</p>
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<p>Thank you.I'm wondering how many students at ND major in the Program of Liberal Studies?</p>
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<p>JJsmom, Corranges and Karen, how does this work with pre-med requirements? Can you be working on your sciences slowly during those 2 years? What are the eventual majors of students in the program?</p>
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<p>I am beginning my pre-med requirements next year (2nd year), though I could have started them this year. They suggest you finish the University of Chicago core in your first two years, but most people end up taking some non-core classes during their first two years, and some core classes during the last two years. The Chicago core and pre med requirements, on a quarter system, would look like this: 3 course social sciences sequence, 3 course humanities sequence, 2 course civilizations sequence, 1 course in the fine arts, 3 courses calculus, 3 courses chem, 3 courses o-chem, 3 courses bio, 3 courses physics, and meeting the language requirement of competency equal to one year of college study. That adds up to 24 courses, assuming the language requirement is met without taking additional courses. Most majors are about 11 courses (this is assuming no overlap, so think of an English major), which would equal 35 courses. Chicago requires 42 courses for graduation (assuming no AP credits for electives). In other words, it's very possible. Chicago does not have a set order for completing the core, though first years all take the humanities sequence. There are fantastic advisors, better than I've heard of from any of my friends or siblings, who students are required to meet with regularly who will help put together a schedule each quarter and make sure requirements are completed.</p>
<p>I do not know the details of other programs.</p>
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<p>My kid goes to TAC. He is not at all a liberal arts person--he's a computer geek. He chose this school for cultural/social fit, and to work on his speaking and writing (plenty of practice in that). He loves it, and I think it is good for him. Beautiful campus and weather, too. PM me if you want more specifics.</p>
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<p>thank you for the post jjsmom. It was informative and has greatly aided me in the state of confusion I have been in on deciding which college to attend. Now I can focus on the remaining few weeks of high school - I was really losing it. I'll send in my tuition deposit tonight...although I will be in the COM department, not CAS. Hope I can get in!!!!!!!</p>
<p>Son is planning to do the full four year program. Re: "how does this work for pre-med?", graduates do go on to medical school without taking additional, traditional pre-med courses. At St. John's and St. Mary's, when students are asked "What can you do with the Great Books/Integral major?" The answer is, "Anything you want to."</p>
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Re: "how does this work for pre-med?", graduates do go on to medical school without taking additional, traditional pre-med courses.
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I don't understand. Do you mean that students don't need to take pre-med courses? I simply do not believe that is true. Medical schools have strict requirements. Students need chemistry, organic chemistry, biology, physics, and calculus. These are required by medical schools. Further, they are the focus of the MCAT, which is one of the largest factors considered for med school admissions (along with grades in those science courses). Now, it is very possible to compete a two-year program completing the pre-med courses after graduating college or summers can be spent at other schools taking them. It is not possible, though, for graduates to go to med school without having taken pre-med courses.</p>
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<p>Sorry, I must have misunderstood or mis-processed what I heard. I recall reading or hearing "Students are well prepared for medical school, they love our students..." I must have had a brain fart and didn't catch the rest of it. You're right, St. John's notes that an additional post-grad year or summer classes are needed to finish pre-med prerequisites.</p>