Great Minds Need Not Apply

[Princeton2018]

<p>I really appreciate that you guys have been respectful in this round of posts. Disagreement is not a personal attack, no, but accusations of arrogance were. Thank you for moving past them.</p>

<p>You can’t vouch for this personally, but my “why college X” essays were especially strong. I had a recruiter at Pomona call and praise mine; I got accepted at Vassar after incorporating some campus lore and naming specific classes; and at Penn, which considers interest too, I was named one of the top 86 applicants. I can totally understand that a college will wait-list a student who doesn’t write an inspired “Why us?” essay, but writing is my strong suit, and I was genuinely interested. In retrospect, I had one weak Swarthmore essay (not “Why Swarthmore?” but “What unique contributions will you bring to the Swarthmore community?”). Because I had that hole in my application, I chocked the wait-list decision up to that.</p>

<p>Grinnell and Kenyon were different in that they did not provide an opportunity to submit a “Why us?” essay. They had no Common App supplement at all. My GC definitely did not screw me over; we have a very close relationship and if they had called, he would have let me know. Maybe he would have let slip that I’d received a Penn likely letter if they had called, but they definitely did not.</p>

<p>I would understand the Grinnell and Kenyon wait-lists if I had written uninspired essays. But as this was not an option, they received the same application accepted by Princeton. I recognize now that I should have contacted Grinnell outside of my application, but Grinnell never once tells applicants any of this. You can check their website’s guide to applicants yourself:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/about/offices-services/admission/apply/us”>http://www.grinnell.edu/about/offices-services/admission/apply/us&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The only step I didn’t take was requesting an interview, but that’s clearly labeled as optional, and it is not strongly recommended except for home-schooled students. Plus, I knew that there was not the slightest chance of there being Grinnell alumni in my area. Not even big universities had alumni in my area. The schools that show interest in their applicants reach out to them on their own accord, and even though no school had alumni in my area, a Princeton alumna drove thirty minutes to meet me halfway and a Penn alumna interviewed me via video chat.</p>

<p>I didn’t live in the right area where I could have been interviewed, but I don’t seem to have done anything wrong. My decision from Kenyon was especially disconcerting because I did travel a very long way to interview. Further, Kenyon allows students to submit supplementary material to an online portfolio, which I filled up completely. The theory that my wait-list is a product of not demonstrating interest is tenuous but possible for Swarthmore and Grinnell, but it is not a viable explanation for my decision from Kenyon.</p>

<p>Congratulations to @intparent’s daughter for being accepted to Kenyon with very high qualifications. I see that yield protection is applied inconsistently, but there’s no denying that it exists, and my case proves that it can happen even to students who bend over backwards to show interest.</p>

<p>To answer @SDonCC, Princeton rejects students with perfect scores, grades, and great ECs because they believe the students they are accepting are better. There’s a random element in this process. Mistakes are made. I heard from a close friend of mine that the valedictorian at her school, the best public high school in my state, will be attending Yale because she was rejected from Princeton, which was her dream school. Conversely, I was accepted at Princeton but rejected by Yale. Totally random. What’s clear is that extraordinary achievement helps the student’s case, and those with the highest international distinctions are all but guaranteed a seat in the most exceptional of cases.</p>

<p>This is different from Grinnell for instance, who sometimes rejects students not because their perfect test scores and great achievement are deemed not quite good enough, but because they are deemed “too good” and the student is seen as having a low chance of matriculating. Both Grinnell and Princeton are clear that they look for high test scores and achievement, and both generally hold to this promise, except at Grinnell an applicant’s strength can work against him in a tiny fraction of cases. This is never disclosed to the applicant, and demonstrating interest (which Grinnell makes hard by not allowing students to submit a “Why Grinnell?” essay, or an online portfolio, or scholarship applications) is not a sure-fire way to side-step this bias.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t think it okay if Princeton rejected a perfect-scoring olympic fencer who plays violin at Carnegie Hall and raised $20,000 for a women’s shelter because “surely this kid would choose to go to Harvard instead.” Had they rejected me, however, I would have been perfectly fine (if a bit disappointed). Similarly, I would not mind if Grinnell had rejected me or my friend if we were borderline applicants for Grinnell’s relatively high admission standards. But we both exceeded it, and exceeding it was a big component of our rejection.</p>

<p>Normally, students aren’t harmed by this because they get into a better college anyway, and I wasn’t harmed too badly in Grinnell’s case (though my friend was, in losing one of his six shots at a college, and I was financially harmed by the same policy at Kenyon). Nevertheless, the assumption that students are not hurt by yield protection is in some cases plain wrong. I really feel guilty for recommending Grinnell and Kenyon to my friend, because he could have spent those two shots much more wisely applying to more selective LACs or lower top 20 universities for which he would have been a good academic fit. I don’t want what happened him to happen to others, hence tip number 4 of my original post, and I don’t want other students to get pushed into the financial straits I found myself in after visiting Kenyon, hence tip number 2. Tip number 1 and 3 no one takes issue with.</p>

<p>I’m just wanting to help.</p>

[intparent]

<p>You just can’t believe the possibility that there was some flaw in your application, at least in Grinnell’s eyes, except you were “too good for them”. Nothing anyone out here says will convince you…</p>

<p>I don’t see how you were harmed at all. Did you think you were going to earn one of the full rides at Kenyon? My kid didn’t even get an interview, assuming those are for hooked applicants for the most part. I certainly didn’t think that was ‘harm’. You can only go to one college… Also, you could have put in more applications at more schools. Putting an app in at Kenyon or Grinnell didn’t stop you from applying elsewhere.</p>

<p>I really, really think that you think too much of yourself, and are just stung from not having every college grant you admission so you could turn all of them down for an Ivy.</p>

[Princeton2018]

<p>And then the name-calling resumed.</p>

<p>There is no arrogance in identifying a phenomenon and saying that my own experience is explained very well by that phenomenon. When I shared my admissions results with a senior member of this forum, she said that the wait-list decisions from Grinnell and Kenyon sounded like “Tuft’s Syndrome [that had] gone awry.” She said this without any influence on my part; at the time, I honestly did not know why I had been wait-listed, and I was just listing off my decisions. She offered the Tuft’s Syndrome explanation first, and that speaks to the fact that this happens often enough that people notice.</p>

<p>She was very kind to me and did not accuse me of arrogance once. You can acknowledge that a kid’s decisions are likely a result of Tuft’s syndrome and still be kind to them, believe it or not.</p>

<p>I really, really think that you think too little about other people, and the assumptions you continue to make about me show that you do not even consider that I may be more complex than you realize. Yes, there was harm in defaulting on Mom’s medical bills in February because I had used up my $700 visiting Kenyon in October. And yes, applying to Kenyon and Grinnell did stop me from applying elsewhere, because when you live in poverty your application funds are severely limited.</p>

<p>Finally, know that of all the sins I have, thinking too much of myself is certainly not among them. Senior year I met weekly with my school therapist because I was plagued by feelings of worthlessness and thoughts of suicide. This has been an ongoing struggle in my life since seventh grade, and it was exacerbated in my high school years when Dad told me he wished I’d never been born and Mom, the person I love more than anyone else in the world, began to abuse me in her alcoholism.</p>

<p>You can make all the fugging assumptions you want, and you can all me the names you want, and I fully expect you will reply deploring me for pulling a pity card, but I don’t want your fugging pity. I want you to know that you are wrong about me. I’m sure I’m not the first kid you’ve called names on this forum but I hope to God that I am the last. You really have no idea what a kid is going through or what hurt your words can cause.</p>

<p>I’m going to go create a new account because what I just told you is not something I want people to know about me. I might use this account if I need to defend myself here again, but expecting a shred of human decency from you is probably too much at this point.</p>

<p>Have a nice day.</p>

[scubadive]

<p>It seems illogical to criticize a poster for jumping to conclusions when you are doing the same thing. He merely stated his opinion. </p>

[SDonCC]

<p>OP, I am sorry for your personal situation. Truly, I am. And I hope that you will pause next time and preview your posts so that you don’t put information out on the internet about yourself that you don’t want to be seen.</p>

<p>Now: back to the thread…:-)</p>

<p>all of us who have gone through the admissions cycle have been surprised by our own (in my case, my kids") results. In some cases, dismay over a wait list or a rejection at a school we thought an acceptance was likely (even when the stats were above the 75%lie and interest shown, school wooed the student, etc.) and in some happy instances, a wait list or acceptance when we were sure we were being rejected. </p>

<p>But in not none single case can anyone, and I mean ANY ONE of us on CC know for sure why these results occrred. Oh, we can guess. And when you look through the different college forums, you’ll see just that, a bunch of theories as to why a poster did or didn’t get in. The essay will be credited for a reach acceptance, for example. You’re blaming yield, but how do you really know? </p>

<p>You don’t know, because no school – particularly these small, highly selective LACs – admits solely on the basis of SAT and class rank. None. And to say with such certainty that it’s yield protection is unfair. I don’t know if you have Naviance at your school, but it’s pretty clear from those graphs that SAT and GPA is not a guarantee. These schools have a very complex process to go through to craft a class that is diverse in a variety of ways – intellectually, artistically, athletically, racially, geographically, etc. etc., all while trying to sustain the culture of a particular campus community.</p>

<p>For the applicants, the acceptance is not only admission to a college, it is often seen and felt as validation of your character, intellect and work over the past four years. Feeling hurt, wanting certainty is a natural response to an unexpected outcome. </p>

<p>But, colleges are not in the business of validating students, they are in the business of building campus communities. As a parent of a Grinnellian, I, for one, am very glad that the school approaches it this way. </p>

<p>And, what if yield did come into play in your particular case? Perhaps Grinnell and Kenyon rolled the dice and bet that other applicants who were above their middle 50 might be more likely to attend their schools. Personally, I think “Tufts Syndrome” is overblown – do you think these schools REALLY know who won’t attend in the RD round? But, yes, these schools do need to manage their admissions rates – not only to play the ratings game, but to meet their enrollment numbers on campus – they don’t want to have only 200 students in the fall, nor do they want to have 500, if they are looking for an incoming class of 400.</p>

<p>Anyway: you talk about deception and an unfair game. Well, it goes both ways, doesn’t it? Students apply to safety schools, knowing full well that if a higher choice comes in that school is not getting their money. In the final analysis, the college admissions game is a complex, anxiety-ridden process for all. </p>

[YrToGo]

<p>Admissions are not as black and white as the original poster described and no one has a god given right to be accepted to every school they apply to. Our son (35 act, 5.7 gpa) was accepted to Grinnell RD having shown no demonstrated interest. They also offered him a very generous scholarship. He decided to go somewhere else, but thats not the point.</p>

<p>Question for original poster. Would you have attended Grinnell over Princeton had you been accepted ? Think i know the answer …</p>

[pmyen]

<p>HI Princeton 2018,
Waitlisting top applicants also is a type of yield protection practiced by certain schools. You were not rejected. If you stayed on the waiting list and wrote a letter expressing your strong interest, you likely would have been accepted off the waiting list. I think many colleges will put desirable candidates on the waiting list and see what they will do next. Some, like you, will have other good options, and move on. Others may still have a strong desire to attend that particular school. Staying on the waiting list signals to the admissions office that the candidate is very serious about attending. I think putting you on the wait list allowed them to manage their yield while also giving you a chance to declare your real intentions about going there. Seems like a reasonable and fair admission strategy for both the school and the applicant. There may be some students with 2300+ SATs who really want to attend Grinnell. They will apply ED or at the very least let the admissions office know (perhaps through their guidance counselor) about their interest. </p>

[bethievt]

<p>My son was one with 2300+ SAT whose first choice was Grinnell, over many other schools ranked higher. He showed a lot of interest, but applied RD.</p>

[International95]

<p>OP: had you applied for the class of 2017, I suspect you would have gotten into both Grinnell and Kenyon. These two schools experienced massive increases in applications for the class of 2018.</p>