<p>Sorry, sunmachine, I did not mean to be rude. I really did wonder whether there was something in the interview or comments that you were responding to. I expressed myself badly.</p>
<p>^^ No problem. I woke up a little cranky this morning. :)</p>
<p>I was obviously a little cranky when I posted too. I was upset by one of the nasty comments responding to the article. I happen to know the interviewer and he’s a very intelligent and thoughtful young man. It really bothered me to see him being attacked like that. No excuse for being snippy to you, however.</p>
<p>^^bethievt - your point is supported by the last comment posted with the article - apparently the interviewer couldn’t get a word in edgewise. that was my impression when I read the article - it sounds like Churchill just ranted, at times incomprehensibly. as an alum, frankly I think this was a waste of the College’s money. instead of an exercise in free speech and a worthwhile debate, the audience was lectured by a buffoon. (okay, maybe I’m a little cranky this afternoon, too ;))</p>
<p>on a lighter note…
[Opinion</a> | Scarlet & Black](<a href=“http://www.thesandb.com/opinion/‘twas-the-night-before-finals-when-all-through-the-hall.html]Opinion”>http://www.thesandb.com/opinion/‘twas-the-night-before-finals-when-all-through-the-hall.html)</p>
<p>Just wanted to answer your question about my son. I hesitate because I do hate the way people might generalize from his experience, it’s just one person’s view. He wasn’t comfortable acting alone and couldn’t find other students to act with him or even discuss whether Churchill should have been invited. The kids he knows are mostly into their own work and lives and they are all very very liberal.</p>
<p>I hope that our sons get a chance to meet! As I’ve said, given his unwavering support for First Amendment rights, I doubt he would have protested the appearance, but I am confident that he would be willing to speak out with a countervailing viewpoint on this or other issues.</p>
<p>Anyway, the reporter at the S&B confirmed that he couldn’t get a word in edgewise to ask his questions! (see his comments on the article) I think that running Churchill’s rambling comments verbatim was a pretty good commentary in and of itself. I suppose the editors could have edited the interview to try to make sense of it, and by not doing so, they made a statement that way about this man, IMO.</p>
<p>Who gets to make the determination as to which speech is acceptable to bring onto campus? So what if he speaks. The worst that can happen is students will employ their critical thinking skills that have been taught at Grinnell to analyze what he has to say. Im more concerned about the dangers of suppressing speech and who will make the determination of which speech is acceptable than I am about listening to something people may find offensive. The only people who should be having the dialogue are the people at the college.</p>
<p>I agree, So Ca Dad–I think our students have the skills to make their own judgments. The college does bring in conservative speakers too. I remember my son mentioning Bob Dole speaking there in the last few years.</p>
<p>pastalover–it probably is a little tough being a non-liberal student on campus. I think your son must have known that going in. I would not have suggested that my son go to an ultra-conservative school because it might have been a problem for everyone involved. However, I think it’s important that our kids learn to relate to all kinds of people. Hope your son finds a happy space at Grinnell!</p>
<p>SoCaDad and Bethievt,</p>
<p>To my son, the problem is not that Churchill spoke on campus but that the students didn’t react much either way. At least from my son’s perspective the dialogue that SoCaDad mentions did not happen and it could/should have been an interesting dialogue. </p>
<p>Bethievt, </p>
<p>Maybe I’m grouchy but your post makes my son seem like an unhappy complainer who is out of place at Grinnell. My son is generally happy at Grinnell and is liberal politically. I hope Grinnell isn’t a "love it all or leave it kind of place. "People can be upset with some things that go on at Grinnell or are missing and still like the school in general. </p>
<p>My son’s biggest gripe is that he has not found the “all kinds of people” you mention so they could discuss politics. He says everybody he knows more or less agrees or isn’t really interested and informed. His frustration crystalized around the Churchill speech when the kids he knows didn’t care either way and the speech seemed mostly unnoticed at large. Maybe when he is past the intro courses he will find more people who like that sort of debate.</p>
<p>nice post, pastalover. I wonder if your son could start a political discussion / current events table. Maybe beforehand, the students could decide on either some particular papers to read, columnists or particular news events to focus on, or just wing it as a discussion. Perhaps he could reach out to a professor to help him get this started, or contact the heads of the Democratic and Republican student groups to see if they’d like to help get it started. He might even call it something that would indicate it was to welcome different viewpoints. This would be a way to meet some people with whom he might interact on a less formal basis, too, to discuss the issues of the day. </p>
<p>If you’re not familiar with what I’m talking about, check out the calendar and you will see that there are interest groups that meet at lunchtime; often they’re language focused, but I know there is one for students interested in linguistics, for example, that meets every other week. </p>
<p>When my S visited on Accepted Students Day, the then head of the Democratic Student Group said that she and her Republican counterpart were trying to do more to reach out and have discussions on campus that would engage more widespread viewpoints; not sure if this has really panned out or not, but perhaps also reaching out to these organizations might help.</p>
<p>pastalover1.</p>
<p>In your first post you state “We knew Grinnell was extremely liberal, but we wish Grinnell would not give legitimacy to someone who mocks the people who died on 9/11”. Today you state “To my son, the problem is not that Churchill spoke on campus but that the students didn’t react much either way”.</p>
<p>I interpret your statement by use of the word “We” that both your son and you did in fact object to Churchill speaking because his doing so gave him legitimacy. Maybe you can clarify your position for me.</p>
<p>I’m confused too, but I’m not sure I’m going to understand this particular issue.</p>
<p>I thought of adding “and no one seems to care either way” but that sounded nasty and negative, and I didn’t want to give off that vibe because that nastiness is not the way I feel. Maybe I should have posted “How politically active is Grinnell? What happens when controversial speakers come?”</p>
<p>Personally both my son and I have a problem with Churchill’s coming, and I was curious whether other people shared that view, but the issue is more complicated than that. On one hand, my son and I think there are many reasons Churchill should not have been invited to speak at Grinnell. On the other hand, we believe that the student groups who invited him had a RIGHT to do so although they should have described him as they did in the event listing as an environmental activist. (I can’t get the link I posted previously to work but it is earlier in this post.) </p>
<p>Once Churchill was scheduled to speak, my son wished he could find other students who were interested in questioning why he was invited to campus, what he gained from coming, what the campus gained, what the right thing to do is when you support free speech but find the speaker offensive, etc. My son really cares about politics and is into debate and hearing many different ideas, so he is upset that the small subset of students he knows just aren’t into that “complex idea with many points of view” kind of discussion. </p>
<p>I thought I was done posting but I feel as though I and my son are being attacked because we raised a negative issue. This thread is turning into a discussion of MY OPINION and MY CHILD. I didn’t mean it to be and it shouldn’t be. It should be about the Grinnell experience or experience and whether this event – a controversial speaker coming and at least one student frustrated because there didn’t seem to be much reaction – is typical of how politically active Grinnell is.</p>
<p>SDonCC, thank you. Good ideas! I like your constructive posts.</p>
<p>Bethievt and SoCalDad, I thought of adding “and no one seems to care” but that sounded nasty and negative, and I didn’t want to give off that vibe because that is not the way I feel. Maybe I should have posted “How politically active is Grinnell? What happens when controversial speakers come?” For us, that is what Churchill’s visit is really about?</p>
<p>Personally both my son and I have a problem with Churchill’s coming, and I was curious whether other people shared that view, but the issue is more complicated. On one hand, my son and I think there are many reasons Churchill should not have been invited to speak at Grinnell. On the other hand, we believe that the student groups who invited him had a RIGHT to do so although they should have described him more accurately. (I can’t get the link I posted previously to work but it is earlier in this post.) </p>
<p>Once Churchill was scheduled to speak, my son felt frustrated that he could not find other students who were interested in questioning why he was invited to campus, what he gained from coming, what the campus gained, what the right thing to do is when you support free speech but find the speaker offensive, etc. My son really cares about politics and is into debate and hearing many different ideas, so he is upset that the small subset of students he knows just aren’t into that “complex idea with many points of view” kind of discussion. </p>
<p>I thought I was done posting but I feel as though I and my son are being attacked because we raised a negative issue. This thread is turning into a discussion of MY OPINION and MY CHILD. I didn’t mean it to be and it shouldn’t be. It should be about the Grinnell experience or experience and whether this event – a controversial and extreme speaker coming and at least one student frustrated because there didn’t seem to be much reaction – is typical of Grinnell.</p>
<p>I don’t think you or your son were being attacked. In your first post you asked if anyone else was offended by this, which I assume you were referring to Churchill being invitted to speak. If so, you were bringing your views up for discussion. You raise a critical point regarding what the right thing to do is when you support free speech but find the speaker offensive. I think most people who responded gave their view on that issue. Once again, for me, it’s in this type of situation where Constitutional freedoms exist and actually have meaning.</p>
<p>I didn’t mean to be attacking you or your son or your ideas either. I was honestly just confused. Your last post made things clearer to me, I think. My son’s experience of Grinnell has been different from your son’s, but he’s a senior so that might make a difference. As far as I know, Grinnell students are known for being politically active and socially conscious. I hope your son finds his “tribe” and comes to love his time at Grinnell as much as my son has.</p>
<p>I live in Grinnell and go to high school here. I’ve also taken some courses at the college.</p>
<p>I’m surprised no one has mentioned he got fired from his prior job for academic dishonestly, and can’t prove his supposed native American ancestry. The guy is really a piece of work.</p>
<p>Welcome, applicant 1993! I think both things have been mentioned in this thread and, yes, he does sound like a piece of work. It’s not always easy to prove native American ancestry though. Our local tribe, the Abenaki, can’t even get tribal status in VT because so many of them went “underground” to avoid persecution. They changed their names and “assimilated” but they really are a tribe that deserves recognition; at least I think so. I have no idea if Mr. Churchill actually has native American ancestry. I suppose there are DNA tests? Are you planning to apply to Grinnell?</p>
<p>Ah well, thats what I get for not reading the entire thread.</p>
<p>Yes, I have already applied to Grinnell. It’s pretty well known it’s very, very easy to get in to Grinnell if you are from town (at least 2 kids got in last year with under a 24 on the ACT, although I believe they were more art-oriented people instead of straight academics) or have any connections to the college, and I happen to have both, plus I would say a pretty strong academic record, so I think I have a very good shot. Because I get tuition remission and I already have connections with the professors there from taking classes, it’s a pretty attractive option.</p>
<p>Regarding pastalover’s fear that no one seems to care about this loon, I don’t think the problem was so the student body supported his ideas or anything like that, but there was simply no knowledge of his ideas or speech, at least for the majority of people. I usually hear about anything major from chatting with students or because my parents work there (like deaths or bias-motivated vandalism), and I heard nothing about this guy’s arrival. I also walk through the science center pretty much every day for classes, and there are posters for upcoming events (like the community theater production of Narnia, or the jazz band concert) and I saw nothing about this speech. This thread is the first time I have heard about it.</p>
<p>Even if someone did see him on the campus calendar, I don’t think the short description they give can really do justice to how crazy he is, and I think it is very possible a lot of people didn’t bother to look him up to find out more.</p>